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FDNY Commish Orders Aviation VFD to Cease Operating


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#91 OFFLINE   firemoose827

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Posted 31 January 2012 - 09:46 AM

Fire42resue..they are not being picked on. They are not trained to our standards. At fire or emergencies they are very disrespectfull, and make unprofessional transmissions on the radio. In the past they have blocked fdny rigs at jobs, and they are very unwilling to cooperate with us.

This is unbelievable...

I don't see the need for them,,,,,,
And who iinsures them????
What if they severely injur or kill someone when responding?????
Someone wrote they aren't dispatched ,they use scanners ... I'm not a lawyer but pretty sure that won't go over to well in court !!!!!

I asked the same thing...where do they get insurance to operate?


Let me begin by stating that I know very little about the Aviation VFD and I will have to take the word of those on here who do in regards to their issues. That said and sorry to divert too far away from the topic at hand, but this particular post caught my attention and I would like to respond to it.

I must respectfully disagree with the assesment that training in the volunteer sector is not "sufficient". I know of many VFDs that have excellent training programs, run by experienced, knowledgeable and dedicated training officers and members that produce superb firefighters...and this I know because I am one of those training officers. Blanket statements rarely if ever tell the whole story, in fact the usually do more harm than good. Are there VFDs that provide substandard training? Yes of course there are, and guess what there are career departments guilty of the same offense...and if anyone actually believes volunteers have a monopoly on pencil whipping training reports, who is it that's being naive? So while it may be true in many States that career FFs are required to meet standards which are often more stringent than their volunteer counterparts, (which indeed does usually lead to better trained, but not necessarily more experienced FFs), it does not by any means mean that volunteers are, as a rule, un or insufficiently trained.

Another point on which I hold a different view is that of the place of State training. For me I think State training should supplement in house training, not the other way around. Yes all FFs should go and fill their heads with all the requisite knowledge certification classes offer, but once done it should become the responsibility of the FD and the members themselves to train regularly in house to meet the needs of their community...and that just can't be accomplished at a State level. No State academy or curriculum can tailor training for each jurisdiction, so until such time as there are universal SOP/Gs and such, the bulk of training must happen in house and be built around how your FD operates. State classes taught by certified instructors is a wonderful and necessary tool in producing great FFs, but IMO it is just that a tool, not a crutch or substitute for real world department based training.

Stay Safe


Cogs



I think my statement was respectful, and not a blanket statement either. I directed my opinion directly at the departments who think a drill is standing around a pile of burning debris in someones yard. I directed my opinion at the departments who use drill nights as "Social Hour" than sign the drill sheet. That is training that is not accountable. State fire training is accountable, because you need to take and pass a test now to get your certificates, and the trained, certified instructor(s) have to provide hands-on training which in some cases is assisted by other trained certified state instructors. To me, to have all of those certified, Employed, instructors lie on their paperwork is impossible to do with all of the checks and balances that are out there to monitor fire training.
The fire department drill sheet simply needs to have the date, subject of the drill, other pertinent info, and the signatures of those attended...How does this confirm that the training was administered to the members at they understood this training?

I understand there are dedicated departments out there with commendable training programs and I see yours is one of them, but brother, my statement was not aimed at you. I too am now the captain in charge of the departments training and have just started a training program that far exceeds the one they had before I joined a year ago. I will now have them do quizzes on the subject learned at the last drill before I start the next drill and will place these in their files. I will start to implement a hands-on training performance evaluation sheet that will be filled out by myself or the chief and also placed in their files containing an evaluation of their ability to perform basic firefighting skills such as laddering a building, cutting a vent hole, stretching an attack line, performing a search and other skills.
What I will respectfully disagree with is the fact that whenever someone like me shares their opinions with others, there are people who take it personally and will take my comments and make it seam like I was making baseless insults against any one department. My statement was meant to look at volunteer training habbits "World Wide" and not just in your department, or mine, or the guy next door. I have been in 4 volunteer departments in my 23 years service due to moving frequently to find both jobs and affordable apartments. Of these four, 2 were large departments with over 100 members and a call volume of over 500 calls annually, the other 2 were smaller departments with smaller rosters and even smaller call volumes, so it is safe to say that I have a decent balanced experience level with volunteer habits, training, and egos. I offer my opinion based on these facts, and respect your opinion. I could easily take your comment and label it as a blanket statement in favor of quality training in volunteer departments as well, but, we both have only witnessed a small number of the departments in this world so for now, we should just agree to disagree and respect each others opinions. Again, I respect your opinions and I respect you and your department for taking your training to a higher level, I wish more would. But I stand by my opinion as well, when compared to career firefighter training in NYS, volunteer fire training is no where near being the same. And please remember, I am a volunteer and have never worked for a fire department, I wanted to and tried 3 times to get hired at 2 departments but failed to meet the residency requirement, but my opinions are still in favor of career training standards and I feel that it should be the same state wide. Every person in this state that wants to enter IDLH atmospheres and put themselves in dangerous environments should have the same level of training, regardless if you get paid or not.
Question for you though, How does your department handle training records? Do you guys have some sort of testing or hands-on evaluation system in place to determine if your firefighters are competent or do you just have the officers evaluate them at drills? The only reason I ask is because as I stated, I am in the process of starting a system at my department and want to do the homework first, so i make sure it works for us.
Thanks and stay safe.

"Moose"
Firefighter II, 1st Assist. Chief, Carlisle Fire Dept..

Isabella Frances Jones, "My Little Girl", 8/27/06, Love you angel.

Amatuers train until they get it right, professionals train until they cant get it wrong.


#92 OFFLINE   helicopper

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Posted 31 January 2012 - 09:51 AM

If I had good information to help dispel myth, yes. We really need to remember that we're not dealing with a Fire Department here. We don't really know what we're dealing with. All we know is that there is some guy named Romero who's 28 and calls himself "chief" and says he has 60 active qualified members. There's no firehouse, only an office with a phone number that no one answers. There are a few pieces of apparatus, but no equipment. These are guys who show up at emergency scenes and operate, but don't belong. If you check, I'm sure you won't find that this happens with Edgewater, ect. They have an organization with a command structure of some sort, ect. Aviation does not exist, they had trouble years ago and went out of service permanently. This is a few people who've resurrected a name only.


He's apparently been promoted to COMMISSIONER according to the CBS News... http://newyork.cbslo...volunteer-unit/
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#93 OFFLINE   JJB531

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Posted 31 January 2012 - 10:05 AM

He's apparently been promoted to COMMISSIONER according to the CBS News... http://newyork.cbslo...volunteer-unit/


If they have legitimate training... Prove it. Present your FF credentials and CFR/EMT certifications. Don't just cry to the news that you're legit and "why's everybody picking on us?" without providing some form of documentation from a legitate training venue indicating they have at least the minimum necessary training.
"I will not fear.  Fear is the mind-killer.  Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.  I will face my fear.  I will permit it to pass right over me and through me.  And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.  Where the fear has gone there will be nothing.  Only I will remain."  -Frank Herbert, Dune

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#94 OFFLINE   flyboy14295

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Posted 31 January 2012 - 10:38 AM

He's apparently been promoted to COMMISSIONER according to the CBS News... http://newyork.cbslo...volunteer-unit/


Aren't commissioners elected or appointed officials overseeing a fire protection district(or city, village, etc)?

These guys are just a bunch of whackers with no life and nothing better to do, except poking a bear with a stick. One day the bear is gonna wake up......

#95 OFFLINE   SRS131EMTFF

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Posted 18 February 2012 - 01:29 PM

Bronx Fire Squad Is Frustrated by City Order

http://www.firehouse...d-by-city-order

The Aviation Volunteer Fire Department's home is a cramped office space on White Plains Road in a working-class section of the southeast Bronx known as Clason Point. Members on night duty sleep in cots or in a camper parked out front. The unit relies on a small second-hand fire truck and two smaller rescue vehicles, including a truck nicknamed Leaks because of its persistent engine issues. There is a small buggy to patrol Orchard Beach in the summertime and a Jet Ski on hand for boating accidents in the East River.


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#96 OFFLINE   M' Ave

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Posted 18 February 2012 - 01:35 PM

Bronx Fire Squad Is Frustrated by City Order

http://www.firehouse...d-by-city-order


Orchard Beach? I didn't realize that as in Clason Point.
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#97 OFFLINE   JBE

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Posted 18 February 2012 - 05:57 PM

Reading my mind. Didn't know they were connected. Oh wait, they are by about 10 or so miles of shoreline!! The more I read, the more I don't like what I'm seeing.And, this knucklehead drops the race card. Ponderous, friggin ponderous.

Edited by JBE, 18 February 2012 - 05:59 PM.

Dispatchers. We're First Due EVERYWHERE!!!!

#98 OFFLINE   rayrider

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Posted 18 February 2012 - 10:19 PM

If they have legitimate training... Prove it. Present your FF credentials and CFR/EMT certifications. Don't just cry to the news that you're legit and "why's everybody picking on us?" without providing some form of documentation from a legitate training venue indicating they have at least the minimum necessary training.


They have five members that are city firefighters according to the article. I am speechless.

#99 OFFLINE   nycemt728

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Posted 18 February 2012 - 10:55 PM

They have five members that are city firefighters according to the article. I am speechless.


Why? Find it hard to believe that an FDNY member would want to volunteer? Find it hard to believe that an FDNY member still lives in the 5 boroughs and might want to help his own neighborhood. People stick with organizations all the time, even if they are less than functional. All it means they are dedicated, and ofcourse in need of a little help to fix the organizations obvious problems.

#100 OFFLINE   Pagers

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Posted 22 February 2012 - 12:33 AM

I'm sure any FDNY firefighter who did ever belong to Aviation is now far far away from there. Plus, a lot of FDNY guys are volunteers out on the Island...
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#101 OFFLINE   M' Ave

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Posted 22 February 2012 - 11:53 AM

I'm sure any FDNY firefighter who did ever belong to Aviation is now far far away from there. Plus, a lot of FDNY guys are volunteers out on the Island...


Probobly. I can't imagine for one second that ANY FDNY firemen are members of this farce called Aviation. Yes, a lot of guys are volunteers elsewhere, however, they're not (or shouldn't be) active where there's a paid staff and that makes a world of difference.
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#102 OFFLINE   CBX4627

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Posted 22 February 2012 - 02:30 PM

Reading my mind. Didn't know they were connected. Oh wait, they are by about 10 or so miles of shoreline!! The more I read, the more I don't like what I'm seeing.And, this knucklehead drops the race card. Ponderous, friggin ponderous.



WHEN ALL ELSE FAILS.............................



imagejpeg9521.jpg

#103 OFFLINE   Dinosaur

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Posted 23 February 2012 - 06:05 PM

It is disgraceful that these clowns are allowed to throw real titles around and the press actually entertains their bulls#.

If the vehicles aren't registered, the PD should seize them and shut down their charade once and for all.

If they are registered, they should be seized for impersonating emergency workers.

Another farce that makes us all look foolish.

#104 OFFLINE   JBE

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Posted 28 March 2012 - 01:21 PM

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According to their website, they're done. Closed for good. "Due to Unwillingness by the FDNY to allow them to operate".
Dispatchers. We're First Due EVERYWHERE!!!!

#105 OFFLINE   SRS131EMTFF

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Posted 28 March 2012 - 06:03 PM

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Next three obvious questions:

1. What will happen with all of their apparatus?

2. What will happen with all of their money?

3. Where will they pop up next?
My opinions are my own, and do not necessarily reflect the opinion of any affiliations I may or may not possess.

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#106 OFFLINE   FFLieu

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Posted 29 March 2012 - 10:32 AM

Wasn't this Romeo Toro the same guy who was a former member of Vallhala FD and arrested for stealing equipment? Didn't he take a plea bargain of 3 years probation on a misdemeanor charge?


According to public records, yes.

#107 OFFLINE   10512

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Posted 07 April 2012 - 12:42 PM

Next three obvious questions:

1. What will happen with all of their apparatus?

2. What will happen with all of their money?

3. Where will they pop up next?


The only question that will receive an answer will be question # 3. They will make themselves known though their next round of tomfoolery, but the answers to questions 1 & 2 will remain mysteries.

Edited by 10512, 07 April 2012 - 12:43 PM.


#108 OFFLINE   CBX4627

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Posted 07 April 2012 - 01:24 PM

Was working one day last week and we were coming back from a run. We were just making a right turn onto East 175th Street off of Southern Blvd in The Bronx when the AVFD little white ESU truck comes flying around us with their lights on, headed south on Southern Blvd. I hear the chauffer yell "Who the hell was THAT". I yelled back that it was a bunch of volley buff wannabe's. For the record, 175 and Southern Blvd is nowhere near Soundview or Clason's Point.......

Glad to hear that their little game was shut down, but the question remains, what the hell were they doing, as this was just last week???

Edited by CBX4627, 07 April 2012 - 01:25 PM.


#109 OFFLINE   ny10570

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Posted 07 April 2012 - 03:38 PM

I used to work 26W on Southern and 168. We'd see Aviation and another BS group, I think it was the Bronx Fire Patrol. Always drove like lunatics and usually in the way.

#110 OFFLINE   PCFD ENG58

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Posted 07 April 2012 - 04:21 PM

Next three obvious questions:

1. What will happen with all of their apparatus?

2. What will happen with all of their money?

3. Where will they pop up next?

The answer to #1 All will be given to the Catskill Fire Cats #2 Open a niteclub in the Bronx #3 Open a new modern sta. on Harrison Ave in New Rochelle and call it B&N hosed company !

#111 OFFLINE   grumpyff

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Posted 07 April 2012 - 05:51 PM

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Next three obvious questions:

1. What will happen with all of their apparatus?

2. What will happen with all of their money?

3. Where will they pop up next?



Since they do not operate off of taxes, they may be able to sell any equipment and share any profits amongst the members.. As for them, they are like a case of herpes, it never quite goes away, and can flare up at any time

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#112 OFFLINE   Bnechis

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Posted 07 April 2012 - 06:07 PM

#3 Open a new modern sta. on Harrison Ave in New Rochelle and call it B&N hosed company !

There is no Harrison Ave in New Rochelle.

#113 OFFLINE   FDNYBuff97

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Posted 07 April 2012 - 07:28 PM

Was working one day last week and we were coming back from a run. We were just making a right turn onto East 175th Street off of Southern Blvd in The Bronx when the AVFD little white ESU truck comes flying around us with their lights on, headed south on Southern Blvd. I hear the chauffer yell "Who the hell was THAT". I yelled back that it was a bunch of volley buff wannabe's. For the record, 175 and Southern Blvd is nowhere near Soundview or Clason's Point.......

Glad to hear that their little game was shut down, but the question remains, what the hell were they doing, as this was just last week???

Wow , are you serious ? How fast were they going ? PD should set up something there to stop them , What was the date ? Maybe there was an accident that they were 'Responding' to. I can't believe they are still doing this.

#114 OFFLINE   10512

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 07:34 AM

The answer to #1 All will be given to the Catskill Fire Cats #2 Open a niteclub in the Bronx #3 Open a new modern sta. on Harrison Ave in New Rochelle and call it B&N hosed company !


I remember the the last "nightclub" their old chief ran in the Bronx, it was on Westchester Ave until it "burned" one night. I think that occured in the early 2000's.

#115 OFFLINE   conman

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 01:47 PM

Of they are disbanded then they need to quit. Of they want to be a legitimate volly department in the city then they should go through the right channels. Reapply for a charter, talk to the other active volly departments, find out what they do to comply with FDNY standards or make it a policy that they train or are required to do all or parts of the FDNY academy. And put in some strong regulations for AFD to follow. Just my two cents
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