Volunteers with Red Lights

[ems731 0]

I have noticed in other topics and dicussions that there has been mention of volunteers with red emergency lights and sirens in there POV. I was just wondering how and why this is. Are they officers in the volunteer organization? I am not trying to start a fight between different organizations or anything like that. I was just under the impression that volunteers used courtesy lights such as blue for Fire and green for EMS, and not red and sirens. Thanks in advance.

[Guest]

Up here in MASS, we can use red lights, but no sirens. While we use red lights, we have to follow all traffic laws, and we cannot respopnd with lights, from another surrounding town. Thats the rules, for my dept at least. I do know that there is a department next to us, where they use lights and sirens on their POV, and pretty much drive like idiots, if you are going to go through a red light, at least slow down first!

[Danger 160]

Chief officers are supposed to be the only volunteers who use red lights.

[CHIEFPHIL 90]

In Connecticut, the light program is as follows:

red /white & siren for chief officers, 3 permits issued by DMV for each fire dept for thier pov's. Many FD's in Ct do not have chiefs vehicles.

blue - volunteer firefighters

green - vac

red lights may be used by duly sworn firepolice officers while thier pov is used to block traffic, direct traffic and only when the vehicle is NOT in motion.

[calhobs 110]

I know in the Ambulance Corps any EMT can have a red light but i think you have to carry x amount of equipment also must have permission from your car insurence company and they usually raise your rate.

[grumpyff 1,159]

I know in some areas of the midwest, such as Michigan, volunteers are allowed to use red lights and sirens. Usually they are in rural areas that have large districts, with long response times, both to their stations, and to scenes. PD usually runs with blue lights or a combo of blue/red.

As for EMTs, I know Hatzhollah, does this. The car is equipted with a certain level of supplies (i.e O2 , jump bag, maybe an AED), I'm not really sure of what the standard of the state is, but the car is designated as a fly car.

Edited July 12, 2007 by grumpyff

[Guest alsfirefighter]

In Virginia volunteers use red lights with the same limitiations as volunteers with blue in NY. PD runs blue in Virginia.

As far as EMS vehicles to be considered a "response" vehicle you must have all the equipment as stated in Part 800. Most of the VAC's I deal with only officers run lights and all carry the required equipment in their cars.

[Reliance 29]

In Virginia volunteers use red lights with the same limitiations as volunteers with blue in NY. PD runs blue in Virginia.

As far as EMS vehicles to be considered a "response" vehicle you must have all the equipment as stated in Part 800. Most of the VAC's I deal with only officers run lights and all carry the required equipment in their cars.

In Nova Scotia, Canada according to the Insurance Bureau of Canada and the Province of Nova Scotia - Department of Transportation and Public Works Motor Vehicle Act the only people allowed to have red lights and/or siren in their POV's are chiefs and deputy chiefs.

No other lights allowed doesn't matter what color it's illegal to use them or break the laws of the road

Edited July 12, 2007 by Reliance

[OoO 24]

In NY it is possible to used red lights and sirens on a POV provided that the driver is an emt and carries a certain amount of equipment. The health dept policy on this can be found here: http://www.health.state.ny.us/nysdoh/ems/policy/01-01.htm

[SageVigiles 1,194]

Would that be registering your car as a Flycar? Because I've heard of that happening before. Seems like an awful lot of work for a light and siren.

[mfc2257 464]

There are certain states where volunteers are issued red/siren. Texas comes to mind. Maybe Vermont, Michigan.

In other states, the "assistant" to "a" chief may also run red/siren. For example an ems captain or fire police captain is the head of an individual divison of an emergency serice agency and thus because they are in charge of the daily running of that unit, they are an assistant to the chief and can run red/siren.

[Goose 188]

In NY it is possible to used red lights and sirens on a POV provided that the driver is an emt and carries a certain amount of equipment. The health dept policy on this can be found here: http://www.health.state.ny.us/nysdoh/ems/policy/01-01.htm

Just to reiterate what ALS already stated, the car needs to be Part 800 and inspected by the state and then needs to display, on 3 sides, the NYS DOH certified logo. As far as red lights/sirens i was told only officers were allowed that privileges. Regardless, you have now identified yourself and your vehicle and have a whole load of new legal responsibilities.

Not to rain on anyone's parade but how many times are we gonna go over personal vehicles and their associated light schemes? There seem to be more pressing issues in the emergency services worthy of discussion...

Edited July 12, 2007 by Goose

[ONEEYEDMIC 68]

Red lights should only be allowed in EMERGENCY VEHICLES. I don't think they should be in personal vehicles at all. 1 Reason is it could lead to problems with the owner doing stupid things with the lights on. I personally hate all BUFF lights. Green, Blue, Red, Orange or whatever. I think that they should all be banned.

[Oswegowind 17]

I have to agree with 1 eye here...It is really funny how every deputy chief has a red light in their personal cars...after 50 years you have 50 or so deputies and the active chiefs...that is a lot of red lights! As well, each fire dept has "3" chief vehicles in Westchester (well at least 3) but how many EMS agencies have the same for their officers???? They do how many more calls each year in each district? Maybe EMS needs to have a "3" chiefs vehicles...or 3 emergency response units and the members get to use them so that they are officially on call and have to answer the jobs that come in...this would be more beneficial to certain volunteers that can't hang out at the VAC all day cause they have personal business to attend to but they could drop what they are doing and get to the job cause they are on call!!!!!!!!! EMS more call volume, less resources! And personal vehicles should have a placard or some type of marking making it obvious to the public that they are okay to use the lights and sirens!

[ailc307 1]

Here in Kentucky and a volunteer firefighter you can respond with red lights and siren. Sound some states have pretty tough regulations.

[ex-commish 490]

[quote name='Goose' date='Jul 12 2007, 11:44 AM' post='96321

Not to rain on anyone's parade but how many times are we gonna go over personal vehicles and their associated light schemes? There seem to be more pressing issues in the emergency services worthy of discussion...

Amen!!!

[64FFMJK 21]

Just to reiterate what ALS already stated, the car needs to be Part 800 and inspected by the state and then needs to display, on 3 sides, the NYS DOH certified logo. As far as red lights/sirens i was told only officers were allowed that privileges. Regardless, you have now identified yourself and your vehicle and have a whole load of new legal responsibilities.

Not to rain on anyone's parade but how many times are we gonna go over personal vehicles and their associated light schemes? There seem to be more pressing issues in the emergency services worthy of discussion...

Actuly and unfortunatly this is NOT the case. My Dept just removed our ambulance from service and replaced it with an "Emergancy Responce Vehicle" (name given by state of NY DOH). They gave us a ton of paperwork and after it was completed and returned we called to see when we could get our inspectionand were told that the State DOH does NOT inspect BLS "emergency responce vehicles. This is sad since anyone can fill out the paperwork (takes agout 20 hours) and register thiere vehicle as long as they have some one sign off that they are willing to transport PT's for you. The only Flycars that NY state recognises are from comercial EMS companies and these are inspected the rest are clasified as emergency responce vehicles.

This puts way to many people in danger and needs to change since I can see people in some areas with to much time and money on their hands registering POVs.

[trauma74 111]

This is the deal. It has been mentioned in other posts. If an EMT has permission from their agency and their vehicle is equipped with all the same equipment that a fly car has and their vehicle gets certified by DOH and they have Red Light cards issued by DOH, THEN they can have red lights and sirens in their vehicles. There must be a written policy in effect regarding the use of POVs as Emergency Ambulance Service Vehicles. My agency had to first send a copy of this policy to Albany and then the Metro Office in NYC issued DOH inspection stickers for our 3 vehicles.

In my agency, the only members who can use their POV as an Emergency Ambulance Service Vehicle are the Captain and 2 Lieutenants. We have been thru the entire DOH process and when they came to inspect us at the end of 2005, they also inspected our POVs.

If anyone has any further questions for me, please send me a PM.

[Goose 188]

Thanks for the first hand clarification Trauma.

[Monty 35]

I have to agree with 1 eye here...It is really funny how every deputy chief has a red light in their personal cars...after 50 years you have 50 or so deputies and the active chiefs...that is a lot of red lights! As well, each fire dept has "3" chief vehicles in Westchester (well at least 3) but how many EMS agencies have the same for their officers???? They do how many more calls each year in each district? Maybe EMS needs to have a "3" chiefs vehicles...or 3 emergency response units and the members get to use them so that they are officially on call and have to answer the jobs that come in...this would be more beneficial to certain volunteers that can't hang out at the VAC all day cause they have personal business to attend to but they could drop what they are doing and get to the job cause they are on call!!!!!!!!! EMS more call volume, less resources! And personal vehicles should have a placard or some type of marking making it obvious to the public that they are okay to use the lights and sirens!

Actually, I was quite surprised coming to Westchester from Albany. A Deputy Chief up there was one rank below Chief (below Deputy were Assistants). Once your term as Chief was complete, you were an ex-Chief (often shortened to Chief out of respect) and left all the Chief's privileges behind (unless you were elected again).

I wonder how many other Counties follow the Westchester model - and where that came from?

[firemoose827 324]

I have a small blue light on my dash....hardly ever use it.

More accidents happen when careless wahoos disobey every traffic law there is just to "Get on the truck". My personal thing is, Im here to help people, when the tones go off I head to the firehouse, If I make the truck great, if not there are people on the truck who will help them.

Usually we have 6-8 guys hanging out at the firehouse most of the day. (They dont have wives!!!!!!!!!)

Moose

[smwells 7]

I believe the NYSDOH policy indicated that not only do they need to be an EMT and meet the same criteria as a 'Fly Car' for equipment and lettering, but the department they represent must also authorize the Redlights and siren, as it introduces a liability for them.

Multiple times since I joined Put Valley, the discussion of Redlights/Siren on POV has come up.. It has been shot down by both the Board of Directors and the Captain each time. Our current captain has NO lights on his POV.

The biggest reason I see the idea of Red Lights on a POV is people are trained to move out of the way of vehicles with red lights..

Blue and Green are "courtesy" lights, but people have no idea what to do when they see them.. At least if they knew what they were they could make an educated decision to let them pass (when safe). I had one person do 10 miles under the posted limit with my green light on behind him, and followed them right up his driveway. He appoligized the entire time we were on scene that he was sorry he delayed my arrival to help his relative.

[CAM502 6]

The biggest reason I see the idea of Red Lights on a POV is people are trained to move out of the way of vehicles with red lights.

LOL...in a perfect world maybe.

[smwells 7]

Why it isn't

no where else can you have a driver bank a left on a red light from the right lane across 5 lanes into a shopping center with an an ambulance going lights and siren behind them.. (it happened to me !! going to the hospital near the cortlandt town center)

[Guest seanc]

funny, just today i was walking in the city (riverdale) and i saw a car, volswagon run a red light with flashing lights (red, and white) and a siren, i thought of myself as a buff, because i herd it and said to myself where is the ambulance, just to see this car fly through...i was very surprised.

[ems-buff 81]

I have to agree with 1 eye here...It is really funny how every deputy chief has a red light in their personal cars...after 50 years you have 50 or so deputies and the active chiefs...that is a lot of red lights! As well, each fire dept has "3" chief vehicles in Westchester (well at least 3) but how many EMS agencies have the same for their officers???? They do how many more calls each year in each district? Maybe EMS needs to have a "3" chiefs vehicles...or 3 emergency response units and the members get to use them so that they are officially on call and have to answer the jobs that come in...this would be more beneficial to certain volunteers that can't hang out at the VAC all day cause they have personal business to attend to but they could drop what they are doing and get to the job cause they are on call!!!!!!!!! EMS more call volume, less resources! And personal vehicles should have a placard or some type of marking making it obvious to the public that they are okay to use the lights and sirens!

It will never happen. For the simple fact EMS is nothing in the eyes of the public. We are ambulance drivers, and a$$holes when we kill a junkies high. The sad part is we deal with all the crap and we get no respect for. I'm not looking for a pat on the back. I still come in to work and do my job, and I volunteer as well, but it's sad that EMS isn't consider a great job like a fireman or police man.

[Guest]

In Maryland no vols are allowed to have any lights except for the ones who are certified fire police. Even then they can not be used while the vehicle is in motion just to block or assist with traffic control.

[mlfcemt093 0]

funny, just today i was walking in the city (riverdale) and i saw a car, volswagon run a red light with flashing lights (red, and white) and a siren, i thought of myself as a buff, because i herd it and said to myself where is the ambulance, just to see this car fly through...i was very surprised.

yea...that car u saw was probaly nypd they have gone to several vehicles w/o orange ez passes

I know of 3 vehicles (obviously won't mention em here) so nypd is becoming smarter you will probaly see a red light thrown on the dash some w/o a siren and goin around traffic those are just the few in the s bronx I have seen w/ uc's in em

[Remember585 815]

Any agency, fire or EMS, should have strict and well enforced policies regarding any warning devices in POVs.

NYS Law says

One BLUE light for volunteer firefighters.

One GREEN light for volunteer EMS.

When using red or red/white combination lights there must be a siren.

Personally, I have a blue light right now and it isn't even plugged in. It's in the hatch. I am sick of it falling off the dash and am tired of it drawing attention to me. I live less then a mile from our EMS station and haven't missed the rig for any call I've gone one. My primary firehouse is on the other side of town, and I usually make the rigs there too. Having the light has been beneficial many times where people have pulled over, but most of those times they only pull over a little, forcing me to cross the double yellow which I hate to do. (and is an illegal move!)

As for three Chiefs vehicles in each jurisdiction - those vehicles are used for more then answering calls. Chief officers are running around doing quite a bit in addition to their jobs. I wouldn't question how a PD operates simply because that's not my area of expertise, so why should anyone question how FD functions not knowing what it is all about?

I hear the comments about liability and insurance costs related to POVs with warning lights. Don't think because you are operating a department vehicle to a call that if you have an accident it won't affect your personal insurance either! I know FOR FACT that people can and have lost their personal insurance because of accidents in Department Vehicles. BE SMART - BE SAFE.

Strict policies and enforcement of them shouldn't be optional, it should be mandantory! But until we all grow up and stop thinking our jurisdictions are independent and surrounded by moats and fire-breathing dragons instead of WORKING TOGETHER FOR THE COMMON GOOD we're just jacking ourselves off! We should all strive to be PROFESSIONAL and PROGRESSIVE TOGETHER and start creating policies that we can all agree to.

Sorry about the rant....

[Doc 11]

I can verify that Vermont allow any volunteer firefighter, with permission from their department chief, to display redlights and use a siren. Most limit it to certain officers (either chiefs or maybe line officers). I've been in towns where EVERY member has them. It's ABSOLUTE CHAOS when a call comes in.