Why Does EMS Have To Be Out In The Cold?

[x635 4,066]

Well, excuse the pun in the topic title.

Police Departments wouldn't accept not having a Police Station. Firefighters WOULD NEVER sit on a streetcorner in the fire engine to wait for a call.

So why is it acceptable for EMS to operate without stations to change in from streetclothes to uniform, rest and eat during downtime, decon, restock, etc.

Also, it seems in many communities new paltial Police and Fire stations are being built or considered, yet often times EMS Heaquaters is an obsolete, cramped, falling apart DUMP.

Where EMS does have a station, it's usually in a cramped room in a hospital, usually near the dumpster or loading docks, or in some other shoved away place in the community. Often times, many medics have to take "refuge" in a VAC, where they are considered "guests".

I feel there are many reasons for this. First, EMS isn't a civil service, seperate muncipal agency. EMS workers are very complacent with their enviroments, and while many young people come in with energy and want things to change, after several years they burnout and don't care anymore. It seems in many systems no one wants to band together and fight for better working conditions.

Some Police Officers argue they're on the road all day. BUT, they have a station to bring their arretees to, do their paperwork, to change, etc. Firefighters argue they need stations to keep the trucks out of the weather. So why is it OK for ambulances to be "out in the weather", and have critical medical equipment and supplies that need to be at a certain temparture either scorching hot or freezing cold?

Also, another huge part of this is EMS provided by for-profit agencies. Often, their is no money to invest in the system infastructure, nor a reason to. Othertimes, EMS is often spread thin and has to cover such a large area, and roams around to where they are needed. Often, EMS is too busy to fully utilize the station. But the biggest factor is many communities aren't even aware of "EMS", what they do, how they do it, or where they "live". Ask a kid where a fire truck comes from, and an adult where the nearest fire or police station is.

I feel that EMS facilities are a huge part of EMS life. I believe that taking steps to make our facilities better, or create facilities where they don't exist, would aid in recruitment and retention of personel. I know on my part, in some systems I have worked in, it would have made life a heck of a lot easier to have stations. In the systems I worked that did have stations (proper and dedicated stations that were maintained), it was a heck of a lot easier.

[JohnnyOV 2]

Down here where EVAC (not a vac, just the name) runs, they are based off an ever changing computer model that predicts where the next call will be from about 20 years worth of calls. They buses are constantly changing posts in order to get a jump start on the next call. So, based on this system, houseing the ambulances in an FD is not feesable.

Edited February 11, 2008 by EMSJunkie712

[x635 4,066]

Down here where EVAC (not a vac, just the name) runs, they are based off an ever changing computer model that predicts where the next call will be from about 20 years worth of calls. They buses are constantly changing posts in order to get a jump start on the next call. So, based on this system, houseing the ambulances in an FD is not feesable.

That's called System Status Managment, and what I was referring to up above, although I should have been more clear about it.

SSM is a whole 'nother monster that I curse whoever invented it! Empress EMS in Yonkers employed it, or at least it did when I worked there.

Everyone I know who works SSM hates the "post shuffle". It places tremendous wear and tear on the bus, and significantly reduces its lifespan. It taxes dispatch resources. It consumes thousands of gallons of fuel uneccesarily. It spews pollution into the air from run down diesel engines. It leaves the ambulance out in the cold and heat, and the crew shoved in the ambulance the whole shift. Basically, the system is wringing every possible dollar they can get out of the crew. It has its plus sides, like response time (in most cases), but those are few and insignifcant when you consider a proper EMS system. Again, you wouldn't put firetrucks on streetcorners in busy systems and reduce staffing because of it......the firefighters would have none of that, and niether would the commnity.

[Goose 188]

That's called System Status Managment, and what I was referring to up above, although I should have been more clear about it.

SSM is a whole 'nother monster that I curse whoever invented it! Empress EMS in Yonkers employed it, or at least it did when I worked there.

Everyone I know who works SSM hates the "post shuffle". It places tremendous wear and tear on the bus, and significantly reduces its lifespan. It taxes dispatch resources. It consumes thousands of gallons of fuel uneccesarily. It spews pollution into the air from run down diesel engines. It leaves the ambulance out in the cold and heat, and the crew shoved in the ambulance the whole shift. Basically, the system is wringing every possible dollar they can get out of the crew. It has its plus sides, like response time (in most cases), but those are few and insignifcant when you consider a proper EMS system. Again, you wouldn't put firetrucks on streetcorners in busy systems and reduce staffing because of it......the firefighters would have none of that, and niether would the commnity.

It's all politics. Until we become (if we ever become) a dedicated third service the above is going to continue to be the status quo. There are some major forces out there that are looking to eliminate EMS as a separate entity and because we don't have the same recognition, representation (local, state, federal), respect or power of some of the other emergency services nothing is likely to change. Anyone who works EMS full time knows it takes at least two jobs to make ends meet, couple that with the rigors of daily life and who has time to attend or plan the type of organizations that we so desperately need. NAEMT is nice, but kind of a joke when you look at the IAFF or PBA. Unionization is often not an option because your likely to get canned if your name is every associated with the notion. Then look at all the people who put their time in on the bus in hopes of becoming a FF or PO? That equates to a lot of people with something less than a passion for EMS.

Wish i had the answer to all of this stuff, but, and its unfortunate to say, I've got more important things to worry about - like paying bills and college loans. So, I'll continue to pick up shifts and feed the machine that is screwing (for lack of a better term) me because it sure beats unemployment, poor credit, and debit up to my eyeballs...

Edited February 11, 2008 by Goose

[jloftus 28]

Any of you birds wanna sit in our Qts , go right ahead, just leave our trailers alone. Maybe the county should budget EMS the way the city does. Never mind they stole that budget. Gotta love FDNY,

My thought would be the County alocating EMS services to commuities and making them a part of the FD. What do I know.

[JJB531 652]

Being out in the cold is just one of many problems associated with career EMS in this area. I can only speak for Westchester County because it's the only county I have ever worked. I've worked in systems where we were employed by the VAC and had our own building which was great because you had all the amenities of home. Then I've worked in systems where you're stuck in a truck or bus for 8 hours (if you're not pulling a double or triple). Nothing like checking your gear while working a fly car in -10 degree weather or a torrential downpour.

Many have said it, and it's very well known, that EMS in this area receives no more notoriety or respect than it did 13 years ago when I first started, and I'm sure that individuals on this board who have been in the field longer than I have will probably agree. I'm just as disgruntled as the next person who actually cares about the field, because I personally feel that not enough is done for EMS providers in this area. What does our EMS advisory board do for us? What does our EMS region do for us? What does our Department of Emergency Services do for us? I know that we have our little barbecue at Rye Playland each year, which is a nice gesture, but think about it. You are up there receiving an award for saving someone's life while an attendee is slobbing down chicken wings and keg beer. What do we do for ourselves? Most agencies are so busy worrying about themselves and the little town or big city that they provide a service to, and the egos associated with so many agencies in this area just get in the way. A lot of our problems can be attributed to poor management also, in both the paid and volunteer services. Volunteer agencies where line officers often change hands every year, and individuals have no experience at all when it comes to EMS management. I've worked in agencies where as a paramedic I've had to answer to people who weren't even EMT's. And paid agencies will typically resort to their strongest providers to act in a supervisory role, but with the high turnover rate in the EMS field, it's difficult to find providers who have the street experience and the management skills to run these systems.

So what's the solution? I loved being a paramedic, but left it as a full time career to go to the police department because I got sick of all the garbage that surrounds the EMS field. I think that a lot of people feel that they don't have the power to make a change, and that's where I think EMS providers are wrong. Maybe one person can't make a change, but if we all learned to stick together and fight for the EMS community as a whole, maybe we'll start getting the respect we deserve. Maybe a professional organization comprised of EMS providers in the area is what's needed. An organization that will speak on behalf of EMS providers without worrying about all of the political garbage that's out there. An organization that can promote local EMS, and educate the community on the importance of EMT's and Paramedics and the work they do every day. I think until there is some sense of unity amongst providers, you'll see the same complaints from EMS providers 10 years down the road.

[ONEEYEDMIC 68]

I can say this, at work they want us out on the road and not hanging around at HQ. If you live within you GOE then you can stop home and eat and do whatever. If you don't, when you take your meal you can be at HQ. I am not saying that people don't hang out at HQ, I am just saying that we shouldn't. Prob the only place where crime isn't being done is at HQ. Or is there?

SSM sucks. Ok I said it. Funny this topic came up today because I was talking with 2 of our MEDICS yesterday morn one of whom made a joke with me about SSM. I hated that CRAP. I hated moving from POST 1 on a middie to POST 2. Most of the time I would just stay on POST 1. Anyway, if you work in a VAC like JJB said then you have the building that you need. Our Town Medics are allowed to hang out in the VAC's if they choose. 87A2 has Taylor Care Center to hang out in. NEW RO has the FD's. I am also pretty sure that WP has a place for their peeps to hang out. At least when I was there they did. Empress is prob still Empress. Churn out those TXP's then get back to Post only to do and EMS run then do a Dialysis return. BS. Glad I am done with that.

I don't know why EMS is THIRD CLASS CITIZEN. Maybe because nobody voices their OPINIONS to the right people. Maybe those people don't care. I do know this, it is FREAKING COLD out. I hate working in this weather. Hopefully will be over soon.

[helicopper 1,050]

Law enforcement is a bad example for comparison because of all the aspects of patrol that require them to be out and about. They proactively address police issues from traffic safety and enforcement to intervening for crimes in progress.

The location of most firehouses was done to minimize response times (right, Barry?) but EMS doesn't have that kind of resources in most communities.

I agree, it's not a user-friendly approach and certainly takes its toll on personnel but what are the alternatives? Floating budget requests for buildings and more units?

[ny10570 745]

Most of these problems are a result of Fire and PD being an integral part of the community since its inception. If fire started 30 years ago they'd be on street corners too. I defy you to find a city agency that would cough up the cash for a facility located in some of the hoods that Fire and PD occupy now. Back when everything was on foot and then horse drawn you needed a protected facility and you needed to be close. Hell, in many 'old' cities Firehouses are still located on hill tops and in most communities fire and pd are located at the old center of town even after the populace has shifted. Until municipalities begin taking responsibility for EMS it will continue to be shopped out to the lowest bidder who will make their money on the backs of the employee.

[10-Buff-4 0]

I'm with everyone who says EMS deserves their own quarters on this one. Good issue Seth.... Why doesn't it get more attention/more advocacy? Good luck in making it a reality. I'm behind y'all 110%!

-Joe DA BUFF

[NWFDMedic 58]

Wow, I've heard some of these stories before, but I never knew it was as bad out there as you guys are saying. I'm lucky enough to work for an agency that has stations for the crews, some more fancy than others, but they all provide shelter. From time to time, the system requires that we post, but it's rarely for a long period. I guess I shouldn't complain when I don't have cable in a station after reading about what of some of y'all are going through.

Anyway, my little comment was supposed to be on system status management. I know we don't do SSM as the book says it should be done in my area, but it seems to work pretty well. We put the trucks where the people are and in the primary contracted areas. I would imagine that every service does it that way. Of course it doesn't always work... it seems that sometimes as soon as you move a truck back to a population center, a call will drop in the area from which it just left, of course in the most outlying of outlying areas.

[Guest]

i just saw something the other day that made me think of this. i was passing white plains 'public saftey' HQ, where there is a very nice, what seems to be a bronze, statue of a police officer, firefighter and judge! i know white plains contracts ems to transcare, but i'm sure if they handled their own ems, things might be different.

i think ems is in the cold bc you have corporations who are getting in the game and been in it. ems is a competitive business, unlike FD and PD's. if the manicipalities stop looking for cheap bids and views ems as an emergency service, it could benefit ems as a whole.

get rid of contracted ems company's and have municipalities start handleing their own ems, like they do w/ PD's and FD's and MAYBE ems will get more respect. and maybe we should start to call ems the 'AD' (ambulance department) bc those who actually have a HQ could show off the benefits of having one. PD, FD and AD, whoever came up w/ 'ems', broke the cycle!

[pfdfirefighter01 1]

up in pawling, NDP has a bay to keep thier ambulance inside, and a room inside the firehouse to stay in when not on a call. i know alot of departments up here do supply a place to keep thier ambulance inside.

[NWFDMedic 58]

i just saw something the other day that made me think of this. i was passing white plains 'public saftey' HQ, where there is a very nice, what seems to be a bronze, statue of a police officer, firefighter and judge! i know white plains contracts ems to transcare, but i'm sure if they handled their own ems, things might be different.

i think ems is in the cold bc you have corporations who are getting in the game and been in it. ems is a competitive business, unlike FD and PD's. if the manicipalities stop looking for cheap bids and views ems as an emergency service, it could benefit ems as a whole.

get rid of contracted ems company's and have municipalities start handleing their own ems, like they do w/ PD's and FD's and MAYBE ems will get more respect. and maybe we should start to call ems the 'AD' (ambulance department) bc those who actually have a HQ could show off the benefits of having one. PD, FD and AD, whoever came up w/ 'ems', broke the cycle!

While I'm a proponent of municipal EMS in a lot of places, there are some places where it just isn't cost effective. Municipal EMS may indeed be the long-term solution, but the short and intermediate term solution should be to look for a service to provide what you want at a decent cost. Municipalities are starting to realize that sharing EMS resources can be beneficial, cost effective, and appropriate if done properly.

If what you're out there looking for is respect, it doesn't come with the difference between a municipal or third party service. I know for a fact that the communities that I work in have a great deal of respect for our service... I hear it constantly form town officials and fire district officials who often make a special effort to come to our stations and tell the crews how appreciative they are of our service. However, that didn't come overnight. It took a great deal of time and effort for us to show them the job could be done and it could be done right.

[Guest]

If what you're out there looking for is respect, it doesn't come with the difference between a municipal or third party service.

i disagree, agencies run by the community are prone to being apart of community events, whether parades, fairs and other events, thus creating awareness and education of what we do, and then respect. Yes, I’ve seen ‘third party’ companies posting an ambulance at an event, but when you tuck yourselves in the corner and fall asleep, people do notice. Municipal agencies have a better chance of interacting with the public and that’s important.

I don’t think respect is that important, awareness and education of who you are and what you do is more important.

I think the ideals of respect come from employer to employee, and shown in proper salaries/wages, benefits and pension plans secondary to the 401K plan…but what do I know, I’m just a jolly vollie

[JJB531 652]

There are civil service EMS agencies that are still considered a 3rd service... so saying that if EMS was run by a municipal service they would get more respect is not really the case. Look at FDNY EMS. Underpaid, terrible retirement, etc. etc. in comparison to NYC Police Officers and Firefighters (notice I said in comparison, because all are underpaid). Even up in this area, EMS which is run by a municipal service is still relatively treated like a 3rd service. No Line of Duty benefits like the PD, no comp time like the PD, different sick time procedures from the PD, terrible retirement as compared to the PD, it goes on and on... and this is a PD run EMS System! The only benefit is that you're civil service and prone to civil service laws which means they can't just fire you like a private agency can.

[Guest]

Look at FDNY EMS.

you said it perfectly...ems run by a FD! i think i'd rather see a contracted company than ems ran by an FD! lol

why not NYEMS, or ADNY, or NYAD, or EMSNY? ...ems should be run by ems

[JJB531 652]

you said it perfectly...ems run by a FD! i think i'd rather see a contracted company than ems ran by an FD! lol

why not NYEMS, or ADNY, or NYAD, or EMSNY? ...ems should be run by ems

EMS used to be run by Health and Hospitals.... maybe someone is on the air who used to work for EMS when it was run by H&H can tell us if the working conditions (in terms of the employer, benefits, retirement, etc.) were better, worse, or the same as they are now in NYC...

[Guest]

EMS used to be run by Health and Hospitals.... maybe someone is on the air who used to work for EMS when it was run by H&H can tell us if the working conditions (in terms of the employer, benefits, retirement, etc.) were better, worse, or the same as they are now in NYC...

true. i work at wmc/nymc and although the pay isn't the best, the benefits and pensions are fantastic. maybe hospitals and other healthcare facilities should re-run ems w/ the same perks other healthcare employees get? i know MD's at wmc are very intune to the emergency services, MCI's, infection control, disaster training, etc...

not sure about other hospitals, but wmc has more funding (public and private) for these types of operations than any vac can ever see, maybe ems shoul attempt to work more closely w/ hospitals and medical control.

i mean your medical control MD is like a FD or PD chief, pretty much whatever they say, you do.

interesting way to view this stuff, thanks jjb.

Edited February 19, 2008 by vacguy

[Goose 188]

You can thank Giuliani for screwing EMS in NYC, but that's an entirely different story.

As far as hospitals running EMS, many don't want to have anything to do with running an EMS agency because it costs exorbitant amounts of money with little return and it's far far different than running a hospital.

As far as Medical Control...i think there is more of a symbiotic relationship than a top down my way or the highway.

[NWFDMedic 58]

i disagree, agencies run by the community are prone to being apart of community events, whether parades, fairs and other events, thus creating awareness and education of what we do, and then respect. Yes, I've seen 'third party' companies posting an ambulance at an event, but when you tuck yourselves in the corner and fall asleep, people do notice. Municipal agencies have a better chance of interacting with the public and that's important.

I don't think respect is that important, awareness and education of who you are and what you do is more important.

I think the ideals of respect come from employer to employee, and shown in proper salaries/wages, benefits and pension plans secondary to the 401K plan…but what do I know, I'm just a jolly vollie

You're absolutely right. When you tuck yourselves in the corner and fall asleep, people do notice. However, when you wallk around the event, socialize, and put your name out there, they notice too. This fault of lack of recognition you are referencing might not be with the public, but with the third party service and its employees.

Now, proper salaries, pension plans, etc. is a whole different story. I've been waiting for quite some time for the ball to drop and for wages to get better in the Hudson Valley, but I'm still waiting. Municipal service does not guarantee you'll get that though... most municipal service EMS doesn't get paid as much as PD or FD despite requiring more training.

[ny10570 745]

There's no quick fix for EMS. Municipal certainly isn't it, but it beats the hell out of commercial. NYC has Municipal, Hospital, and Commercial and without a doubt commercial is the last choice. Now I'll get my soapbox out...

I wasn't in EMS 12 years ago when the merger, takeover, invasion, whatever you want to call it occurred. I'm here now and two main gripes from everyone who was here HHC. It either revolves around EMS being a second class citizen or the increase in supervision and regulation that fire has forced on EMS. I have yet to find anyone who can show me how the job has been made worse since the merger. We didn't get a tenth of what was promised, but we've never had a newer or better maintained fleet of vehicles (EMS use to have to change their own tires), we've never had better facilities, we're taking back units that were given away (HHC gave away many more slots over the years than Guliani did), better equipment, LODI, 3/4's pension, 25 year pension with a 20 year pension languishing at the state, uniform status, more command and control over units, and LODI (This is probably the biggest benny). EMS was offered unlimited sick but the senior guys who stood to lose a lot of sick time shot it down. Back in the HHC days the job tried to get them to respond out of stations but the rank and file fought it because they saw it as an increase in supervision. In the old days EMS in NYC was like working in the wild west. They ran non stop and chased the jobs they wanted. Man under, shooting, MCI great response times. Talk to any cop or firefighter and they have horror story after horror story about 20 and 30 minute wait times for a bus. Fire started their first aid units (the origin of the CFR program) because people were pulling call boxes when they needed an ambulance. PD regularly transported the sick and injured to the hospital because a bus just took too long. Yeah, a lot of it was under staffing and a huge call volume, but HHC wasn't expanding. Their philosophy was do what you can for who you can. The fire dept is numbers driven. They've established a standard of care that didn't exist under HHC. There's a lot more supervision but its to get everyone the help they think they need. Sadly the days of going down to the point for a few lines and a BJ are gone (yes, that crap happened frequently). Yeah, our pay isn't close to what PD or Fire make, but we do better than EMS in the surrounding communities and if you include our benefits it gets even better.

[res6cue 67]

EMS has it pretty good in Rockland. Every VAC has their own station, with quite a few either new, recently renovated, or built right from the start. Every Medic unit in the county is housed, usually in a VAC's building. In many cases they are not just "guests", but RPS pays rent and therefore usually has a bay for their truck and rights to use pretty much the entire building. It also helps that RPS has been around for a long time, both in its present form, and before the merger as Good Sam/Nyack Hospital Medics. They are an integral part of the system. It's a shame it's not like this all over the area.

[Oswegowind 17]

That's called System Status Managment, and what I was referring to up above, although I should have been more clear about it.

SSM is a whole 'nother monster that I curse whoever invented it! Empress EMS in Yonkers employed it, or at least it did when I worked there.

Everyone I know who works SSM hates the "post shuffle". It places tremendous wear and tear on the bus, and significantly reduces its lifespan. It taxes dispatch resources. It consumes thousands of gallons of fuel uneccesarily. It spews pollution into the air from run down diesel engines. It leaves the ambulance out in the cold and heat, and the crew shoved in the ambulance the whole shift. Basically, the system is wringing every possible dollar they can get out of the crew. It has its plus sides, like response time (in most cases), but those are few and insignifcant when you consider a proper EMS system. Again, you wouldn't put firetrucks on streetcorners in busy systems and reduce staffing because of it......the firefighters would have none of that, and niether would the commnity.

Great points, the post shuffle did suck, especially in the middle of the night, most of us just found a nice place "in between" and left it at that! But during the day, it kind of made sense. We will see what the future holds!

[JJB531 652]

As far as Medical Control...i think there is more of a symbiotic relationship than a top down my way or the highway.

That is very true.... typically I've found that when a Medical Control Doc gets to know you and trusts your skills and/or judgement they'll give you whatever you ask for (within reason obviously)...

[jcoppola 52]

From what I have been told, Norwalk Hospital Medics stay around the ED during downtime. I think for the most part, they keep busy by helping out in that area. I have nothing but good things to say about them for the most part because when I tore my ACL playing softball in 2001, I went to Norwalk Hospital and sat in the waiting room in agony until one of the NH Medics recognized me as a MOS and wheeled me right into an exam room amdist a great deal of people waiting. We at the FD cannot help that they are stuck there during downtime, but they all know they have a standing invitiation to any of our firehouses for coffee etc. and I usually try to remind them of this when I see them at a call.

One other point, the Norwalk Hospital Medics do not enjoy a great deal of downtime. They are horribly understaffed for the call volume they handle.

While on the topic, does anyone know if Stamford EMS still keeps a medic unit on Vine Road with the crew enjoying a spacious, deluxe single-wide trailer for their "quarters"

JVC

[Guest BFD196]

Yes, Medic Four is still housed on Vine Road in a trailer. They have to keep the ambulance outside but I guess the trailer isn't bad. Medic One is spending most of its time on the front apron of Station 3 on the West Side, theres been a reserve engine housed there on and off for a few months now.

[AFS1970 504]

You know it is funny (in a sad way) that SEMS Medic 4 has been workingout of a trailer for years with little if any notice, but Bridgeport Fire puts in a trailer to move a rig back to a better response area, and there is quite a bit of attention paid to this. Maybe now that Access is out of SEMS HQ, Medic 4 can have a station, since that was build as the old SAC Station and housed ambulance for years.

As for Medic 1 being on the apron, that is simply the nature of the beast when one is a guest in someone elses station. The reserve rig gets the bay when it is in quarters. Of course 3 Company is still better (by leaps and bounds) than the various dungeons that Stamford Hospital used to find for Medic 1, including that strange almost triangular room at the E/R that used to be an Ace Ambulance office.

[shipwright 4]

EMS used to be run by Health and Hospitals.... maybe someone is on the air who used to work for EMS when it was run by H&H can tell us if the working conditions (in terms of the employer, benefits, retirement, etc.) were better, worse, or the same as they are now in NYC...

I worked for NYC*EMS from '80 to '88.

Conditions were deplorable. My first station was in the sub-basement and garbage zone of a semi-defunct nursing hospital on the lower east side called Gouveneur (station11). Some guys used to bring air pistols to the station to shoot the rats that ate the dirty adult diapers that were in festering heaps against the locker room's outer walls.

The pay, too, was dismal. I made 14k the first year I was there hauling bums and junkies of the Bowery.

We were just emerging from the "old days" of pre-EMS ambulance systems. At Gouveneur we still had a couple of Techs and MVO's. Techs wore all white and provided patient care. MVO's wore blue, drove the bus and offered no patient care except to carry the stair chair.

The busses were amazing! I had come out of Stamford Ambulance Corps unit 99 (imaculate, up to date modulance) to work in NYC. The Grumman busses were simply a Ford f-350 frame with a rivetted aluminum box on the back. Some ahd a small set of shelves with doors above the stretcher. No external compartments. Your gear went on the floor in back.

The only straight sheet metal on the unit was where your arm hung out the window--otherwise they were one giant dent.

Our position in the city hierarchy was clear (Ed Kotch made sure we and our lousy union knew it) There were THREE emergency services in NYC: Police, Fire, and Sanitiation. Were were a municipal courtesy.

One of our former union presidential hopefulls (and resident loudmouth shop stewards) quit to go to sanitation because the pay was better, the benifits were better, the retirement was possible to achieve, and the garbage he carried wouldn't piss and puke on him.

BUT!

It was the "wild west." You got into your bus, drove to your police precenct (for us the 1, 5, 7, or 9 houses) and signed out a police radio with the desk officer--we didn't have functioning portable radios.

You drove around, went to calls 8, 10, 15 in 8 hours on busy nights. If you heard a shooting, man under, jumper up or some other toothsome job come over PD, you'd tell your dispatch board and pick the job up.

Other busses would try to cut in on you by saying they were closer and race was on!

At 8 o:clock most nights few RMP's or busses didn't have a Budweiser tall boy or two going. Otherwise, you parked on a corner and hung out or met up with other units. We ususally parked at St. Marks Place by the Jem Spa--sometimes three or four busses including the Cabrini units.

It was really up to the individual to decide what kind of EMT or medic they would be in the old system. You could slide out of jobs, turn off your radio, and party. Or, you could get an enormous amount of street action, get paid to go to medic school (I went to Jacoby three weeks after totalling my bus in a head on collision with a 7th pct. RMP going to a shoot-out).

What is most odd--to me--about the NYC*EMS FDNY merger is that the old EMS was more of a NYPD affiliate. We ran on borrowed NYPD radios, patrolled with no station to rest in, did rescue almost exclusively with NYPD ESU and we all LOATHED FDNY.

Back then, they were REALLY hard to work with! EMS medics and cops kind of operated in small, independant units made up of two partners. When FDNY (AKA "Rubba") showed up they their "Loo" would completely ignore the EMS crew and break a bunch of stuff and panic. They could really fight fires, but NEVER ask Rubba to help ventilate a patient--"Chest's open, LOO!"

No insult intended to anyone on this, just my recollection of the old and VERY territorial days.

I wouldn't trade those days for anything.

[Bnechis 3,961]

The location of most firehouses was done to minimize response times (right, Barry?) but EMS doesn't have that kind of resources in most communities.

Fire Station Locations are done (in concept) to minimize response times to properties, not people. The Standards are based on property insurance.

EMS protection is based on population. This is were SSM came into being. If you have a daytime population of 300,000 but a night time one of 50,000 you have different EMS needs. Patient population also will determine EMS needs, i.e. lots of nursing homes require more EMS than shopping malls.

For FD's, buildings don't leave town and still require protection when empty. And insurance rates pay for this coverage.