Westchester County Communications

[billfitz 109]

I will be one of the first to point out a deficiency or an area that needs improvement with Westchester County DES - but I am also want to point out when something is a benefit . We recently responded to M/A 2 days in a row - Last Sat. Batt 14 and last Sunday Batt 18 - switching to the appropriate channel gave us constant updates on what was going on with the incidents - as well as having our units utilize a common M/A frequency when on scene. We also occassionally use the tac channels for training and other miscellaneous operations. I know one of the original criticism with this system was that the frequencies were shared with the County buses (I don't know if this is still true or what effect it would have if it was true) - I am sure their are other departments out there that use this system a lot more than we do - what has been your experiences? So far I find it a big improvement over the old 46.XX that was previously used for M/A

For another thread - as someone mentioned previously - I think the radio designation "Battalion XX"" to 60 control should be changed - that designation implies they may be associated with the "Incident Command Position" I believe it should be changed to a title that better descibes their role as a "liaison" just my 2 cents

Edited September 27, 2009 by billfitz

[SageVigiles 1,194]

Could do what Putnam does and call them "County Car XX"

[billfitz 109]

Could do what Putnam does and call them "County Car XX"

Thats what they used to be called - I don't know why they changed it!!

[JBE 328]

Something I saw used in LA, say the incident is in Mount Kisco on the Saw Mill, they can always be called Saw Mill IC. I don't know if they still do it in Putnam, but when I was in Lake Carmel, and we had a job, 17-1-1 became IC 17.

[jack10562 414]

County transit has their own talkgroups (channels) but I can't imagine that there would be that much bus chatter so that it would cause a system-busy delay for any others trying to use the radio. There are three frequencies available in the Southern zone and five in the North zone, so there should be no problem for multiple users communicating amongst themselves on different talkgroups simultaneously.

Prior to my moving out of the local listening area, with the implementation of the Trunked sytem I noticed a significant improvement in the ability of different units operating on multiple incidents being able to communicate without interference. Plus, it freed up 46.26 for dispatch traffic.

[Guest alsfirefighter]

The simplest way to handle the issue of who the IC is...is to follow how the incident commander should identify themselves which is either by incident name or use the street....such as "main street command" "terrace command"....instead of just simple car numbers.

[SteveOFD 176]

Billfitz,

As jack10562 stated there are three frequencies available for voice transmissions in the South Zone, and five freq's available in the North Zone. The BeeLine Buses use, and are constantly on this System. I do not know the specifics of how the County System is programmed, but a standard feature of trunked radio systems is that certain Talkgroups (ie Fire, EMS) can be programmed to have a higher priority access level than othe Talkgroups (ie Buses, Public Works, etc.). What this means is that if three of the seven BeeLine Talkgroups are using the three South Zone voice freq's, then a Fire/EMS user transmits accessing the South Zone, then one of the BeeLine Talkgroups would be kicked off of the System to provide the higher priority Talkgroup the use of their freq.

As jack also stated the buses may not be that busy to provide a system "busy" tone (when all available freq's are being used and your TG does not have priority to kick off another TG to access the system, your radio will get a "busy" tone when you key up the mic.), but with Fire & EMS using the same system, the combination of all these users could be maxing out the three available freq' in the South to provide 'busy's".

FYI, Westchester County does have a pending FCC application to convert a UHF freq. pair they are already licensed for to trunked system use, thereby provividing a fourth freq for the South Zone.

[SQDBOSS 6]

I too agree with biifitz, my Department has recently begun running Automatic Mutual Aid with a neighbor, and for those calls MY department utilizes the assigned TRUNKED channel. I find the TRUNK to be much clearer and obviously alot less "frustrating" than 46.26. I truly will have to seriously consider switching permanately.

[Goose 188]

Glad to see that they are trying to add a channel to the system. While i've never had a problem with the radios, i have always had a concern that the more agencies the county adds to it's primary dispatch rolodex the quicker the system would be maxed out in the instance of a major incident.

Edited September 28, 2009 by Goose

[99subi 121]

westchester county lacks badly in the IC department. well i take that back not all of westchester, but alot of it

[Medic137 6]

We haven't haven'd had any problems with the system being maxed out. My only suggestion would be to add some "preset buttons" onto our mobile radios with our most commonly used frequencies. It's tough when when you are responding alone to scroll through all the freqs looking for "EMS 17" or a Tac freq.

I'd like to have NWHC, HVHC, WMC, EMS 17. and our local tactical frequency on presets on the next generation of radios we get.

Edited September 28, 2009 by Medic137

[Remember585 815]

We haven't haven'd had any problems with the system being maxed out. My only suggestion would be to add some "preset buttons" onto our mobile radios with our most commonly used frequencies. It's tough when when you are responding alone to scroll through all the freqs looking for "EMS 17" or a Tac freq.

I'd like to have NWHC, HVHC, WMC, EMS 17. and our local tactical frequency on presets on the next generation of radios we get.

They offer a new microphone that has the capability of having some "hot keys." The key, like most anything else, is practice.

[xchief2x 79]

THe trunked radio system works great! There are of course some areas where the portable won't work that's why the IC should establish a command post and remain there, like someone said ICS isn't followed in all of westchester. Departments should get off of 46.46 as soon as possible once on location using eitherthe trunk radio or their assigned ground ops channel, this way should a member issue a mayday it willnot be stepped on by another agency getting dispatched to your call or another somewhere else in the county.

Battalion #'s - All deputy coordinators were for many years called county car # until under commisiner Kelly, when he changed it to Battalion #'s, why,, I couldn't tell you, IN MHO Battalion is a designation for a Chief officer which we are not, we are there to work with the IC and get them whe resources they need. Just my personal thoughts on this post.

[Guest alsfirefighter]

westchester county lacks badly in the IC department. well i take that back not all of westchester, but alot of it

You are absolutely right subi and I would have to venture to say that the majority of the departments lack in Incident management and those that are a little ahead of the game still have some distance to go. Some are getting there and its great to see. But many are utilizing terminology and thinking that they are using incident management but are reverting right back to outdated operations and procedures. If you work it it will work and I honestly believe that NIMS while getting the idea out there has caused much of the problems as I here we use "NIMS"...that's great but I didn't know we in westchester were such a hot bed of federal level incidents. Which is what NIMS was for to familiarize localities with what page the federal government was on and get you in line. You have to break it down to the local level. Once you get it in place and do it...(on all calls not just fires which is what generally happens here) it just keeps rolling.

I've tried to do several ICM reviews and "courses" that I took my NIMS instructor material and broke it down on how to get it right on a local incident level...ie car accident, AFA, structure fire, brush fire, CO...etc. Can't drum up the interest in getting it right...so what else to do I'm open to suggestions. But NIMS courses certainly will not get it done.

[jjpinto 297]

The Bee-Line Bus System is set up with 14 talk groups which we use ten of them on any given day.

The System percentage of talk group calls has DOT using 62%, Fire 24% and EMS 12%.

Overall System usage for all three combined is 18%, while 82% of this system is unused.

[SteveOFD 176]

Departments should get off of 46.46 as soon as possible once on location using eitherthe trunk radio or their assigned ground ops channel, this way should a member issue a mayday it willnot be stepped on by another agency getting dispatched to your call or another somewhere else in the county.

Chief, just a point on this post, from my understanding of NFPA 1221(I believe) states for fireground use, the use of repeaters (of which Trunked Radio Systems are repeater systems) should (or shall) be prohibited. Only simplex (point to point) analog radio shall be used. Basically this means go to one of the eight County (or private FD freq simplex analog) frequencies.

Also the System was not designed for portable use, the premise behind the system was for emergency response and communications to Control.

Edited September 28, 2009 by SteveOFD

[PCFD ENG58 1,085]

Push this ? change that ? switch to this ? Ops that? Fireground this ? HELLO is anybody there ?

[LTNRFD 266]

Push this ? change that ? switch to this ? Ops that? Fireground this ? HELLO is anybody there ?

Remember the good old days of 1 radio and only 1 channel. The hardest part was to remember, 'push mic button, then talk, then release mic button' !!!!!!!

[xchief2x 79]

Steve I did mention using the fireground channels (Ground OPs) I am not pushing the use of the trunk for fire ground but I was pushing it's use by the IC to contact control>

[Bnechis 3,961]

Remember the good old days of 1 radio and only 1 channel. The hardest part was to remember, 'push mic button, then talk, then release mic button' !!!!!!!

Mark didnt you teach me it was: 'push mic button, then talk, then release mic button' then throw brick (radio) down flight of stairs so we could get one of the "new" GE's?

[wraftery 1,275]

Ever try tennis balls?

I recall being a Captain back in the 70's. In charge of roof ops for a big one. Back then, our radios were like aerosol cans...shake well and maybe they would work again. My radio took a bath and would only transmit noises that sounded like bubbles. We only had 1 radio for the roof...1 for the street (now called the IC's Command Post.) There luckily about 50 tennis balls on the roof.

I would toss a tennis ball 6 floors down so it would bounce in front of a Captain in the street. I would then communicate with the IC using a series of shouts and hand signals.

It's not necessarily WHAT you are using for communications..it's HOW you are using what you've got.

I think the thread departed from what Billy Fitz was talking about

[x635 4,066]

Thats what they used to be called - I don't know why they changed it!!

When I started at "Fire Control", that's the way it used to be. Simple, effective, clear.

BTW, thanks for coming on here and pointing out some positive aspects of the system!

[SteveOFD 176]

As of 10/14/09 Westchester County has received FCC authorization to use frequency pair 478/481.3125Mhz in the South Zone of the Trunked System with the conversion of FCC License KVN918 from IG(business) use to YW(trunked) use. Unknown when these freq's will be programmed for use in the South Zone. Program 478.3125Mhz in to the South Zone Bank of your scanners to find out when it is in use.

Edited October 19, 2009 by SteveOFD