Anger Over Missed Calculation On Tarrytown Riverside Hose Engine

[Bnechis 3,961]

So they went with Crimson-Fire and the dealer in Suffolk County NY, Hendrickson Fire. Boy where is that Bayville - Rye bridge when you need it!

I only know why they threw out the 1st bid. I dont know what happened with the 2nd.

How critical is having the dealer in the county? We have a mile distance in our spec and many dealers don't meet the 100 mile radius. We allow dealers to be beyond that if they provide a written plan on how they plan on servicing our purchase. In 25 years its never been a problem and the farther the dealer, often the better the service we recieved.

[wmurpht 1]

Lets remember that this is not the first time this has happened in Tarrytown as well. If I remember correctly TL-78 did not fit into to its existing quarters at the time, however I am not sure if that was intentional or not. I know it was living in a semi-quonset hut like structure at one point.

Tower Ladder 78 was the second apparatus designed by Washington Engine, beginning in the late 90's. The first being an engine, to replace the existing engine at the time (which would've fit in to the Kaldenberg firehouse). The Village administration directed Washington Engine to design Tower Ladder 78 after an evaluation regarding Village wide fire coverage from an insurance standpoint. The timing between the original engine design and the directive from the Village was happenstance. It was known by all parties from the beginning of designing Tower Ladder 78 that a new firehouse would be needed to house it. To find out what happened afterwards and how the Village arrived at a cost savings based on 2 new firehouses instead of 1, you'll have to ask the people who were in office and made those decisions.

[MoFire390 118]

tarrytown is a beautiful place. and kinda compact. where are u gonna put a 2 department station with a good response time for the village??? the new ladder is on rt 117 and getting down rt 9 to get into town at 5-10am is no picnic. (i know i deliver beer to the 7-11 on the corner. but good thought process. good luck with the new engine tarrytown!!! i hope this all works out for u

[spin_the_wheel 460]

How critical are service repair facilites? I guess that would vary from one Dept. to another. How critical do they view down time for first line units? Do they have a replacement spare? Can members ride other rigs during alarms? Is there another Engine close to this companies first due areas? Does this company have first due area specific equipment other Engines in the Dept. do not have?

If a rig has to be out of service even one day longer then it should, purely due to the distance of the repair shops, that alone can be a case to argue. Even more so to the members, if in fact during round 1, it was brought up to them that closer dealers exsisted to the village.

[Bnechis 3,961]

How critical are service repair facilites? I guess that would vary from one Dept. to another. How critical do they view down time for first line units? Do they have a replacement spare? Can members ride other rigs during alarms? Is there another Engine close to this companies first due areas? Does this company have first due area specific equipment other Engines in the Dept. do not have?

Down time is critical to all depts, even those with plenty of spare apparatus. Just because a dealers shop is closer does not mean you will get your rig back faster. If the close shop has fewer mechanics/technicians, if they have fewer feild personnel or if they dont stock major parts. A larger shop thats 90 minutes farther, but fully stocks parts will be able to fix your rig and have it back to you before FedEx arrives at the closer dealer with the parts you need. Also larger dealers often have the ability to loan spare rigs, particularly if yours has a major issue.

If a rig has to be out of service even one day longer then it should, purely due to the distance of the repair shops, that alone can be a case to argue. Even more so to the members, if in fact during round 1, it was brought up to them that closer dealers exsisted to the village.

The seagrave shop is 24 miles to the center of Tarrytown, another dealers shop (not in Westchester) is 16 miles.

[spin_the_wheel 460]

Down time is critical to all depts, even those with plenty of spare apparatus. Just because a dealers shop is closer does not mean you will get your rig back faster. If the close shop has fewer mechanics/technicians, if they have fewer feild personnel or if they dont stock major parts. A larger shop thats 90 minutes farther, but fully stocks parts will be able to fix your rig and have it back to you before FedEx arrives at the closer dealer with the parts you need. Also larger dealers often have the ability to loan spare rigs, particularly if yours has a major issue.

The seagrave shop is 24 miles to the center of Tarrytown, another dealers shop (not in Westchester) is 16 miles.

All fair points, but I would be upset if I were in that company and in round 1 the difference of 8 miles was a sticking point to the village or whomever was overseeing this process, and then in the end they went with a shop 55 MILES away.

ok guys be safe I'm off.

Edited April 16, 2011 by spin_the_wheel

[mstrang1 213]

The sticking point was not the 8 miles, it was the law. State law says, basically, that the purchase must be an open, fair competitive bid. If you word the bid announcement in a way that only gets you 1 bid, that is not a fair bid. So the sticking is actually, they want to follow the laws of the state. How novel.

[DR104 141]

just do what they do in White Plains, have the guy that specs out the garbage trucks do it for you!!

[billfitz 109]

measure twice cut once!

[JetPhoto 626]

They make those tape measures for dummies, with the incriments spelled out for you. Maybe the department should buy one and send it to the firm as a gift?

Maybe the departments truck committee should learn how to use the tape measure also, that's why the have trips to the factory to review your apparatus before it's completed. They are as much to blame because they are suppose to know the ins & outs of their station the new truck would go into.

[Engine 80 16]

Maybe the departments truck committee should learn how to use the tape measure also, that's why the have trips to the factory to review your apparatus before it's completed. They are as much to blame because they are suppose to know the ins & outs of their station the new truck would go into.

do you actually think we didnt c,mon.be real,the truck is 116 inches the door is 119 1/2 ,we had this issue with the last rig also.maybe east west needs you tape measure they got paid good money to make sure this did not happen,we went to the factory for review on flat ground its 116.we told east west the angle would ad atleast 5 inches backing in and east west said no problem it will fit ,we no the ins&out so you need to take it easy,you need to look at east west my man and the mayor and trustees ,the fd ben telling them to be carefull and looks what happens,

[Engine 80 16]

If you write the specs so only one entity can bid you run afoul of state law and can be accused of "bid rigging". Saying that only Seagrave can meet the spec is presumptive on our part and we have to give other vendors the opportunity to either meet the spec or decline to bid.

get your facts rite first!

[Engine 80 16]

Down time is critical to all depts, even those with plenty of spare apparatus. Just because a dealers shop is closer does not mean you will get your rig back faster. If the close shop has fewer mechanics/technicians, if they have fewer feild personnel or if they dont stock major parts. A larger shop thats 90 minutes farther, but fully stocks parts will be able to fix your rig and have it back to you before FedEx arrives at the closer dealer with the parts you need. Also larger dealers often have the ability to loan spare rigs, particularly if yours has a major issue.

The seagrave shop is 24 miles to the center of Tarrytown, another dealers shop (not in Westchester) is 16 miles.

ON THE CLOCK OR OFF THE CLOCK?#$$$$

[Bnechis 3,961]

ON THE CLOCK OR OFF THE CLOCK?#$$$$

Care to explain?

If you are talking about a shop traviling longer to get to you. We dont pay for that, our contract is time & matterial one site. If you are talking warrenty issues, we dont pay that the manufacturer does. If you are talking general maintenance, most dealers do it in your fire station and they dont charge for the distance if they value your buisness. And for general maintenance you have lots of options, the dealer, public works garage, your own shop (for those that have), and there are many independent or other truck repair shops available.

[Baxter904 0]

Whats the discusion about Seagrave rigging the bid? Crimnson won the bid and built a rig that did not fit in the station!I think the discusion should be directed to the person that signed off on the 116" height of the rig.

[ec255 22]

Our dept has very tight quarters- I have been involved with spec-ing all 4 of the apparatus that reside there- Our first due was a Pierce demo model which we backed in and new that it fit.The rest of them we had clauses in the contracts that they fit into the bay-measurements and responsibility of the builder-not purchaser. We did have 1 width problem on our utility truck because International changed to those big jumbo mirrors mid-year- manufacturer made mods to fix it.

[Bnechis 3,961]

Whats the discusion about Seagrave rigging the bid?

No one has ever claimed that Seagrave rigged a bid. The primary way that a manufacturer / dealer could do that is thru collusion (i.e. I'll bid x on this one and you bid x+1, then on the next bid we will switch). According to our purchasing dept. thats a felony and we require a sign off that that was not done.

The claim was that if you narrow the scope of the bid, to the point that you know you are excluding all bidders, except 1. Then State purchasing laws says you are bid rigging.

Crimnson won the bid and built a rig that did not fit in the station!I think the discusion should be directed to the person that signed off on the 116" height of the rig.

Agreed

[Engine 80 16]

Whats the discusion about Seagrave rigging the bid? Crimnson won the bid and built a rig that did not fit in the station!I think the discusion should be directed to the person that signed off on the 116" height of the rig.

east west made the spec,crimson just built what east west spec.and no one signed off on it yet.and the apron work will be started this week,all in all its a nice rig and we will signe off on it soon,we always stated the apron was a problem and planned with the village to get replaced so its no suprise to us,but the village is upset east west did not figure this 5% grade to the height,you pay for what you get.