TimesUp

You're right Eagle, it should be common sense and it seems like a simple answer to me. But yet it happens.

This accident is tragic. But if people can understand how dangerous responding like this could be. Then maybe an accident like this can be avoided in the future. So a good lesson can be learned.

To just say it was a one time accident and not learn from it would really be tragic. Maybe there are firefighters that do this sort of thing often and wiil now re-think how they will use their blue light.

I remember about a year ago I was driving southbound on the sawmill river pkwy. There was a older chevy blazer weaving in and out of traffic and passing alot of cars. He was going south as well and he had on his dashboard blue light. As he passed me I noticed he had Jersey plates with "VF" in the Maltese cross. I lost sight of him at the Henry Hudson tolls.

Was he really responding from somewhere in westchester to New Jersey? Is that something that is legal to do? I know it is referred to as a courtesey light, but is only to be used in your own district or state?

Maybe if your out of state you should not try to make the call. Any answers on this/

I agree with ya Bob, Its sort of a false sense of security for the guys inside. They may have an agreement with a neighboring dept. But if its the middle of the day they might be waiting awhile.

How long do you wait until you go to plan "B". Or do you just operate as if you won't have a fast team. Or as a dept you only rely on your own team.

I know, I know, I said "Fast team" please forgive me.

Don't sweat the petty things and don't pet the sweaty things.

Proactive or Reactive. If it takes a tragedy for you to start thinking about fast ropes or a large gas explosion to start thinking about those dangers then you are reactive. The Fire service would be alot safer for firefighters if we as a whole were proactive.

We've all thought about something after it happened. But some of these thing should be on your mind every day. Its to late to start planning for something once its already happened.

Although I would'ent be too upset to hear that nobody had a pre-plan for a F2 tornado.

Treat all calls seriously, You'll never go wrong.

This story is wild...HAC will know.

In my Co. we're lucky to get anyone in the "crew" suited up prior to or responding on the rig. They only suit up if they see that there might be "work".

Personally, I wear the pants and boots when I drive.

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I've driven and always did with my gear on and had no problem doing so. We know seconds count. So to wait for a guy to get dressed is crazy. What might someone think when you get to their house thats on fire and they see you getting dressed.

You have your gear on, you arrive, your ready to work! No delay in time. Imaging getting to a call where someone needs help and you have to get dressed.

If the door is locked from a top mount mag place a halligan bar low in the door for a grip point for pressure then with a flat head axe hit the metal door top (at magnet) with a good shot that will break the contact and you can pull the door open. I have done this many times and it works great. DO NOT HIT THE DOOR IF IT ALL GLASS  opppppppssssss.

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Same Idea, but just Line up the halligan and tap it between the door and the magnet. Then a quick downward pry and it will pop. If you can't get in the door you might not be able to shut off the power.

This is crazy! It sounds like " who care's what you want" , "we'll tell you what you want!" or "don't tell me how it is on your job" , "I'll tell you how it is on your job".

I think Chris is trying to offer up some solutions that will make guys on my job safer in the long run.

Its the city relying on mutual aid that puts us in danger in the first place.

Chris, Myself and the guys in Mt. vernon appreciate your supporting us with this situation.

How would you know thats all the facts stated are true.. Are you a member of FDMV? Even if the past few classes have just filled vacancies, they are still men out on the line , helping to get the job done.

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Who are you to say otherwise....do you work for the fd? I do. You only have two post and they both have to do with questioning members post. What's your story? Maybe you would like to shed some light on the situation. As stated before all the previous post are right on the mark.

Juice, I would have to say that just about all the facts Mt. vernon guys have stated are true. The past few classes just filled vacancies that have been open for a while. As far as solving a manning issue, it has'nt done that. Don't be so quick to question someone's character.

Mine is also a guess, but when you train, you want it as real as possible. In combat, there is no FD or EMS response to help you out of the tree. As a cop, when  we have firearms training, if the gun malfunctions, you are responsible to clear the malfunction, not the firearms instructor, because on the street you're going to have to deal with it yourself. Just my 2 cents.

Scott

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I was a paratrooper. Part of your training is to get yourself out these situations. They don't teach you to call 911 and wait for the FD. These guys received some good training that day. I just hope they crossed their legs before impact.

Please tell probies are'nt being taught its ok to get cats off roofs. Even if theres a crowd you wan't to empress for good P.R. All they'll end up seeing is you chase a cat off a roof...Thump! Don't tie up your rig for this either. Fires come in at the weirdest times, you don't want to be the guy trying to load up ladders while a mile away some lady is hanging out a window. Sorry you had to jump, I was busy trying to get a cat off a roof. This is where disipline comes into play. You might want to show everybody you can get the cat, but then you realize its a bad idea........But go ahead and throw some cat food up there. Just take it out of the can first, would'ent want to hit the old lady in the head with that.

Sending a firefighter up onto a roof to get a cat? Real bad idea. The cat will get down when its hungry enough, it won't sit there and starve to death. How would you explain to that firefighters family that he broke his neck for a cat on a roof.

Give a quick report so incoming Co's have a heads up. ( pretty much the scenario as above) 1st due engine better get the line in place to protect the stairs. You might need them If you can't get the stick or the bucket to the victims. Then push in on fire. 1st due truck better get the victim. Start the stick towards victims, if thats not gonna work start up the stairs and get them. All sort of variables can be thrown at you. Get up the fire ecscape to make the apt. or the one next to it then through the wall. Hopefully the Chief will be on scene shortly and a second line will be operating soon. If theres enough manpower have a guy stay outside and persuade the victims not to jump, also ask how many are up there. If they do jump you can then tell the guys to stop trying to make the apartment.

The IC should see what progress has been made when he gets on scene. Are the victims out. If not why? If the fire is not darkening down see if we can get another line in there. If the stick can't reach the victim have the second due try from another position. Like from the rear. Also if the first line is making progress maybe we can leave the occupents in place. As for all the other variables,? This was for ordinary construction.

What ever happened to the old fashioned way. Study hard and train hard. Stop relying on extra points. Shoot for 100/100 on both parts of any test. This way you'll always be at the top of any list and very reachable. Even if others recieved some point advantage. Good luck on any test you may be taking. Just to add..I recieved vets points. But I was'nt going to let that make or brake my grade.

Oh man...somebody's gonna get a demerit......How dare you have an unpopular opinion!

Well Put Capt415, I could'nt agree with you more! It will make things safer for the F.F.'s and the Public. The only person who won't want it back in service is the Mayor. God only knows what he's thinking.

So you hire 2 guys tell them to clean the fire house and if an alarm comes in to respond? Sounds like these guys are paid firefighters. But they're not covered as such(207a) in case they get hurt or killed in the line of duty. The Department saw a need to have the firehouse staffed. This makes sense, it will equate into a faster response of the rigs. Thus protecting the public that much better. Nothing wrong with that! So now that you have a need why don't you address it the right way and stop sneaking in guys under other titles to do the job. After all we're talking about protecting life. That should always be your first priority. The only thing wrong here is the round about way some depatments will go to staff their firehouse. Also how some guys are worried about their departments hiring paid firefighters. This is'ent a "paid vs volley" situation.

One more thing. When you start pulling more engines to a call to make up for manning cuts on the first due co's the you end up taking those engines out of their E.M.S. response area. Now you have to deal with the delay of treatment to sick or injured persons. Thats how Cassidy can say the cuts cause deaths in relation to E.M.S. calls. The trickle down effect.

Manning cuts means more work for the guys on scene. Fatigue sets in sooner on these guys. Now the likelyhood for injury goes up! So why not believe that the manning cuts causes an increase in Firefighter injurys. They can call other units to make up for the cuts, but they take time to get there. We know what that means.

I sat and read through these and was gonna refrain, but then again that just wouldn't be me:

YFD has a problem with mutual aid, because the City of Mt. Vernon won't give their own dept. the personnel it needs.  Yonkers shouldn't have to be the 2nd alarm assignment for Mt. Vernon at every fire.  Mutual aid is supposed to be to assist as in cases of this fire, at incidents that are beyond what should be able to handled by the host agency. Mt. Vernon doesn't give their fire department that ability.

As far as sending the dayshift home in the middle of an incident...where in the US is this standard on a fire that is still not considered under control.  Yes, I have and have seen personnel relieved at the scene of incidents such as AFA's that are still being investigated, fires that are under control and units are opening up, picking up etc.  This was an all hands, major fire, poor choice to send guys home. 

I feel for my fellow union brothers, tossed into the political and municipal financial winds, not knowing what direction they will sail.  They are the poster children of personnel staffing issues, it is amazing they have not had a serious injury or LODD.  And god forbid if they do, the PESH and USFA LODD report will still not change a thing.  If it wasn't for each other, I probably would not have a few friends I know there.  For a Commish to make a comment on TV, that I refused OT and to state that's the risk I take, is insane.  He's not taking risk...HE'S PUTTING IT ON THE FIREFIGHTERS AND OFFICERS OF MVFD! 

NOUGH SAID.

The problem is that the Mayor they have is always shutting down engine companys or dropping the manning levels to dangerous numbers of personel. He does this because he said "If I have a fire in my town I'll just call mutual aid" So the guys down there respond with skeleton crews. Their on their own for the first most hectic and dangerous moments of a fire. Then the mutual aid companys role in. The guys in Mt. Vernon will never have the staffing they need if you guys from all over the county shoot over there on mutual aid. Support our brothers in Mt. Vernon! Help them get their manning up to safe levels! If your phone rings at home don't answer it! Remember its called mutual aid! Not supplementel aid!