Mark Z

Pardon me for not pulling punches, but that's a dumb example: there IS no 'correct' answer to a word association test! Such a question has no place in an exam - not because it's somehow biased but because it *has no single correct answer* (as you go part-way towards pointing out). Word association is for a psych interview, not a graded test!

No I won't pardon you, you don't need to be pardoned! I agree that is a dumb example but I was what I came up with as I was typing and I used it to hopefully make the point, sorry if my poor example further clouded the issue. I didn't mean to indicate that word association belonged in the qualification part of the process either. That is one thing I like about this and other firefighting boards, people aren't afraid to step up and let you know that you don't always get your point across the way you think you did!

The argument is not that the firefighters or test writers are racists. It starts with the dept not being able to prove that the test did anything to help select better firefighters. First class or last class and you're still getting firefighters with similar pass rates and similar promotions rates. The tests in question had an higher failure rate amongst minorities. Traditionally in any standardized test, your basic education has a lot to do with how well you do on the test. Poor people get a crappier education than rich people. Its not all society, there are many factors including family and community issues. Here in grand ol' NYC the vast majority of our minorities come from garbage communities with weak schools, broken homes, and little community support. They are not going to do as well as better educated people who grew up in better communities with better schools. It just so happens these better communities are a little heavy on the white end of the spectrum. SO, what is really a poverty bias takes on a racial bias. In the Jim Crow south there were many laws put into place to disenfranchise blacks without explicitly preventing blacks from voting. Things like property ownership requirements and literacy requirements while not explicitly targeting blacks were used to target them. So piles of precedent and case law were developed to prevent those types of actions. This is the same principal that the city has lost on. The test wasn't intentionally racist, but it had the unintended consequence of placing a greater hurdle in the way of minorities. Now if you can create a test that directly speaks towards someone's ability as a firefighter or aptitude for becoming a firefighter you can test away to your hearts content. That is why you have the latest test created by the city. While it appears to be a lot of bullshit and unimportant babble, the test was essentially a pshych profile. I hope this made sense and didn't ramble too much. If it did, then why are you still reading?

You left out one very important point that I want to make, the test may be unintentionallly biased: do a simple word association cup and ? To a white kid who grew up on military bases with that horrible military issue stoneware; they will say mug or coffee, a english kid might say tea, a kid from scarsdale might say saucer. The correct answer FOR THE TEST is saucer but the other two weren't wrong, culturally they gave the correct answer. That is the kind of thing that slants a test. Yes, test prep manuals do help overcome that but it doesn't change the fact the tests may have a bias. FTR, I don't agree with what this judge did, I think it is wrong and do more harm to fdny then help make the situation better.

well said, although Christians don't use rosary beads, that's the Catholics

When did Catholics stop being Christians!

This article was published in The Day, the local newspaper for New London, CT.

http://www.theday.co...ENT07/301169920

Seth,

I honestly wish you hadn't given this **** the publicity and mentioned this miserable piece of trash he calls an op-ed piece the exposure. But since you did I will mention that I sent him an email inviting him down to the firehouse anytime he wants to come to find out what it is like and he has not even given me a reply as of yet. He also went and posted his piece at fire-engineering magazine to give it more exposure, I don't know what his beef is with the fire service but he defintely struck a nerve with this hatchet job.

. . . Second i saw someone had posted the they didnt think a local guy would be doing governmental vehicles for VIP type people. . . . . . . . . . . .

Let him keep thinking that. . . . that kind of thinking makes it easier getting this type done and kept quiet. . . because that kind of stuff doesn't get done around here. . . . .

Saw this on another board. Funny video of a Q siren on a moped, Just for fun, no complaints that his boots are not pulled up.

My link

I have no idea but one of them pulled out from the shoulder after helping a motorist with what appeared to be a flat tire in the area of Readers Digest on the Saw Mill (no lie) a siren (wail, yelp what have you) and blasting an electronic air horn to get through traffic then took off in the left lane siren still blaring and got off the Saw Mill at the Chappaqua exit. When he got behind me in traffic I didn't know what to think because they have amber and white lights to the front so I didnt move (they arent emergency vehicles) then he just blasted the air horn at me until i decided whatever and moved over. I hsve no idea why help trucks have sirens or why help trucks even need to have them.

Strictly so as to be able to reach a stranded motrist blocking traffic on a bridge etc.

Yes, I would! I am beginning to think they should outlaw them anyway, they cause more harm than good!

Depends on who it was. If it was a fire chief or assistant chief, or the chief officer of an ambulance corps, or an EMT whose vehicle is DOH certified as a fly car, than no it is not illegal.

How does one go about that?

May all have a Safe, Happy, and Healthy New Year!

It is one thing to be opinionated (not that I'd know anything about that ) . . . . . . . . . We really need to find an outlet for hostility. . . . . . (oh wait, sharp objects that won't work).

Lighten up, everyone!

RATFLMAO!!!!!!

-This is the problem with our generation, it's been drilled into us that higher education is a necessity, regardless of what that higher education may entail. This is the reason why a high percentage of people my age and younger are damn useless at 1) working with our hands, and 2) applying knowledge in real world situations. I am obviously not anti-education, I just don't kid myself into thinking that learning about pet subjects will somehow help me get ahead in life and pay my bills.

Raz, I hope you don't mind I quoted you as a way to start this topic, but it stated the situation well!

I am a little older than you but spent 20+ years getting a degree I have no interest in using, how many of us have degrees in areas we either don't use or don't even have a desire to work in that field?

And one more shot. Hope to get some in better lighting after the holiday.

(Click on photo for larger version)

One of the local FD's took delivery of a type I Ford a couple of years ago and although initially I hated the truck have come to appreciate it and MAYBE like it. Good luck to Austin-Travis County with theirs!

Nice Set-up! I like it and already posted a link. I think it will be a nice addition to EMTBravo!

My Volunteer FD does exactly that. For example, we'll get called to an MVA in the middle of the day, and be short manpower. The town Highway dept will show up and help run tools back and forth and maintain traffic flow.

If his dept allows it, why not!

One thing about being chief, everybody else knows how to do your job better than you do! I don't care one bit why he was there and I am reminded of a situation where the chief paid for his own chiefs vehicle and people still complained about where he took it! His own vehicle, paid for with his own money and he also paid for his own gas! People complained because it was painted just like a fire truck and they felt that he should only drive it on fire calls or shouldn't have been allowed to paint it that way! We have better things to do on this forum than complain about what other people may or may not be allowed to do!

This blew my mind when I read it:

"It is illegal for a fire district to provide, directly, EMS services," he said Friday. "It doesn't matter whether they claim it's the one fire company in the district doing it, because the fire district is in charge of that fire company."

I have always been a proponent of fire based ems and do not understand how NJ can have a law like this. This situation is horrible but these kind of turf wars over who provides what usually boil down to somebody not being able to share his toys with others and cooperate. The townspeople will end up losing and we all look foolish. This situation sucks.

I go to .com first and look around and then come to .net, I like the way the two are tied together. I think the way you have it is fine, if you want to renovate go for it! If the forums are any indication I will cuss you out for a few days getting used to the changes and then when I have gotten used to the new way like it just as much! BTW, I really like being able to login with my facebook account

Some of the council members asked about the use of mutual aid to assist in the manpower reduction. The city manager stated that they will not use that as an option. He said mutual aid is a 2 way street and we need to find a way to maintain New Rochelle level of service without the use of mutual aid.

I am glad to hear the city council is aware that mutual aid is a two way street. I just hope that this city manager isn't overruled by the council and told to make cuts anyway. I hope NRFD is able to deal with what is coming down the pike without loss of life. This is a scary time for the fire service, people are no longer willing to pay for the service they MAY need someday. I am totally at a loss in terms of how to show that much of what is being cut or eliminated is needed because something might happen, that is the problem

Funds for the rescue were already allocated and paid for prior to the current fiscal crisis. Funding for staffing is a whole other issue.

What source are you citing for possible layoffs?

That's just it, I don't think that refering to this as a fiscal crisis is approaching it from the right viewpoint, many cities do not have a SUSTAINABLE LEVEL of city services in such times as an ecomonic downturn and we are now seeing much larger than neccessary budget cuts to make up shortfalls than is safe. I am just saying that we shouldn't get tied into long range plans to grow services or expand dept's because I will bet that even if cuts aren't planned they may be coming in the future.

So are you advocating that we don't buy new equipment in oder to save jobs? I don't think that is the answer, but you raise a valid question at this point in time. We are in an interesting time when many cities/towns/states are finding out that they have bitten off more than they can chew in terms of providing services. You are going to see many FD's scaling back in terms of both manpower and equipment in the years ahead. I am not a chief/officer but looking down the road some very hard choices are going to have to be made about resources allocation.

I like it and if the vehicle is owned by a politician, can I run for their office? I think it was a nice job and thanks for sharing!

I think I would prefer to go to the first UNREAD post, if you are always directed to the first post it makes it very hard to follow a discussion and know where it left off.

I think it would depend on the fire district/dept. I know some places that the chief candidates are selected by the commissioner and then is voted on by the dept. I also know of one dept in TX where the chief is approved by the comissioners and given to the dept without dept approval.

No one has suggested making threats. The suggestion has been made to actually refuse to respond...to refuse to participate in a completely broken system.

In essence, to continue to respond is to say that the career members are not necessary, that the system will work without them. If you believe that the careeer members are not necessary, then continue to respond, but at least admit that you agree with them being laid off.

If you believe that these career members are necessary, then how could anyone continue to serve as a volunteer and help to create the illusion that there is a functional fire department? This would make you even more guilty than the politicians who have made the layoff decision, yes, even more, because, supposedly, as firefighters, career or volunteer, you are more qualified than they are to say what is necessary and what is not in regard to fire protection.

I underlined part of what you posted and request time to think and consider my response, but know that I have read it and want to choose my words carefully and consider what to and how to say what my respons is to what you wrote.