Raz

Interesting stuff. As for my correction, hemp isn't marijuana.

It is my belief that operational means that the team is able to respond to calls with an appropriate number of trained personnel in a safe and timely manner. They train twice a month. to my knowledge the requirements to be on the team is a minimum of Rescue tech basic with more classes encouraged. The team has had several activations since it going operational.

First off, RTB is the extent of my official training in tech rescue. I've always chosen to concentrate on fire and EMS, as those skills see more day to day use as well as pay my bills. So when I say this, it's not to down anyone as some holier than thou poster: RTB is nowhere close to being enough as far as minimum standards go. As far as I know, there isn't so much as a mention of the word "trench" in that class. I'm pretty sure it only entails low angle rescue and 3 to 1 Z rigs. I'm sure that some members have far more training, but a team is only as good as it's weakest members (anyone watching the Giants in the last two weeks will agree).

Again, not to knock anyone, but that's like calling for BLS when a job requires ALS.

The politically correct tone is ruining the fire service. I am seeing it first hand and it disgusts me.

This is the absolute truth, and in essence the best response one could give to the question raised in the original post of this thread. If you don't like what somebody else posts, shut them up with facts. No need to attack them, no need for moderator intervention, no need to make threads like this complaining about other threads. It's really the most satisfying way to handle things, both personally and for the good of the site.

Quads are your most important muscle, work on them until it burns. Everything else is secondary.

Going to a police academy, fire training school or paramedic training is not the same a college no matter how you slice it. You tell me how that benefits you in any world other than your professional career. A college education gives you more than just a basic skill set, it teaches you how to approach the world and various challenges from new and different perspective. You do not take Russian classics because you want to study Mid 19th Century Russian authors, you take that class because it teaches you how to tackle, overcome and master various challenges that you will be faced with. In the academy you are trained to do one thing and one thing only. With a college degree you can tackle just about anything. Those with a degree know that you really do not do what you think you will do in college and rarely do you actually use your degree. The average college graduate has major changes career paths on average three times in there life. A college degree will prepare you for almost anything from law to business to science, while police academy will only teach you to be a cop, not a firefighter and not a paramedic.

I honestly believe that almost all public servants should have some form of higher education than the same diploma everyone got from the state when they showed they had the minimum it took to graduate high school. That goes for cops, firefighters, EMS, even truck drivers and street sweepers.

This is hilarious to me, for a few reasons:

-The academy isn't the equivalent of college, even though many of us received college credit for our time at the academy.

-People will take a college level literature study class, not for the purpose of studying literature.

I'm sorry, I understand that you're worldly and wise beyond your years, boldly stating how a college degree will prepare you for anything, despite not being old enough to have graduated college yourself. You even go on to state how there is a good chance that you will not actually use any of the skills or knowledge learned at your school. With this level of logical thinking, that college degree might just prepare you to tackle making coffees at Starbucks. I would know, I used to work there with a bunch of people who had useless degrees in Liberal Arts and the like. The only difference is that I didn't have $50,000 in student loans to pay off, while bringing home $200 a week.

The fact is that having a college degree, just for the sake of having a degree, isn't worth a damn in today's world. If that degree is in an applicable science, trade, or useful field; that's great. That degree represents an honest boon to the recipient. A boon that may very well be worth the large investment of time and money needed to earn such a thing. The fact is that, in modern society, there are a great number of absolutely useless college courses, and by extension, useless degrees. Colleges offer courses that study TV shows, they offer P.E. credits for bowling. I realize that I'm using extreme examples here, but these are the very things that are included under your blanket statement that a college degree is superior to a trade school certificate.

This is the problem with our generation, it's been drilled into us that higher education is a necessity, regardless of what that higher education may entail. This is the reason why a high percentage of people my age and younger are damn useless at 1) working with our hands, and 2) applying knowledge in real world situations. I am obviously not anti-education, I just don't kid myself into thinking that learning about pet subjects will somehow help me get ahead in life and pay my bills.

Do you have first hand knowledge that its not there on department/district business?

Your making a lot of assumptions without any evidence other then a picture of a chief's car you allegedly snapped in Rhode Island. For all we know, you might have taken the picture somewhere in Long Island and posted it here just to generate some controversy.

Either way if you have any issues with it; you should direct your questions/concerns to the Board of Fire Commissioners of the fire district in question.

This is ridiculous. Someone posts a picture of a L.I. chief's car "allegedly snapped in Rhode Island", but it's actually all a fiendish ploy? Seriously? Is JFK your favorite movie? It seems like 1 in 5 of your posts on here involve some conspiracy to defame volunteer firefighters.

By the way, I'm pretty sure that picture was taken at Roger Williams University, with the (insanely narrow) Mt. Hope Bridge in the background. Of course, I could be in on the plot!

The pay is good enough, there are benefits, and few see this as a career. Why am I going to give up 10, 20, 70, or whatever dollars a check when I'm outta here as soon as x or y job comes through.

And that post is exactly the reason why EMS will always be treated as the red headed stepchild of the emergency services.

WPFD is being set-up! It's not about saving money and sick time. The politicians and city management take back the 24's that everyone likes working and maybe the ff's will give up something more valuable to keep them. POLITICIANS SUCK!!!!!! Don't give anything back for 24's, you'll be sorry!

I figured that's what this was about. It always seems that someone in charge wants to take away 24's or mutuals as a way of fighting the labor force. Fortunately, 9 out of 10 times, someone smarter and higher up will put a stop to it because they see how much it benefits the management as well. Apparently, that didn't happen here. Oh well, they'll figure it out the hard way, it seems.

Are those special units?

No, I just said "certain units" because I can only speak for the guys that I happen to know on the job down there. Keep in mind, when a lot of us are talking about 24's, we're actually talking about modifying a 10 and 14 schedule so that the day and night tours abut eachother. I know Greenville's schedule is actually set up like that, many other departments accomplish the same task through mutuals.

I think the biggest question when you consider the 24 hour work schedule is the amount of work that the firefighters do. If they're running 15-20 calls in a 24 hour shift, it is not unreasonable to consider that the firefighters are not in good physical condition to tackle a job during the 23rd hour of that shift. However, if there is significant down-time or rest during the shift, the 24 hour schedule can offer significant benefits. Knowing nothing about the actual work requirements of WPFD, I can't really comment as to whether the schedule is good for them.

They'll probably be better during the 23rd hour of that first shift than they would be during the 13th hour of their second consecutive night shift. WPFD has a sizeable call volume, but if certain FDNY houses can work 24 hour shifts, I think WPFD's guys can handle it.

Man that's a lot of exclamation points.

Look I posted an article and it's been viewed over 500 times in less than 12 hours so I guess it was of interest (like I thought it would be). It was impossible to tell from the way it was written what the firefighters and police who attended in large numbers were upset about, so I asked. What's the problem with that?

Most of the guys I knew from living and working in White Plains who were White Plains cops and firefighters are retired and no longer live in the area. The guy I used to work with (from Station 7) wouldn't have liked it I don't think because he had an auto repair business on the side. He didn't even like working days because nothing got done in the shop if he wasn't there. According to him anyway.

So the guys attended the meeting to voice displeasure at seeing the 24 hours shifts rescinded? Thanks, didn't know that.

24 hour schedules are one of those rare occurrences that mutually benefit both the labor force and the employer. The employer will generally see a vast reduction in overtime used to cover leave (and really, what manager anywhere wouldn't love to be able to cut OT while not reducing output?), while the labor force benefits from having "more time off."

The reason I put "more time off" in quotes is because it's a misnomer. Firefighters work the same number of hours, but are spared many hours that are normally spent commuting and recovering before and after their shifts. Most guys will agree that the "day off" between night tours (10 hours in actuality, which becomes 8 hours or less once you factor in some commutes), is almost completely lost. Many would also make the same arguments about the night off between day tours. Dennis Smith once famously wrote that he felt as though he "really worked at the firehouse about 6 days a week."

Disregarding the monetary and time benefit to both the municipality and their workforce, there's the biggest benefit of all: alert, fresh firefighters at all times. Working one night tour, no matter how busy, just doesn't effect most guys until the morning, when they're off duty. They then go home, recoup and come back fresh in a few days. When you start stacking night after night, as in a 10 and 14 schedule, you start wearing firefighters down.

I'm sorry, but I really don't see the reason for a dept's hose to be tested by a third party. Vollie or career, you should have the manpower and means to test your own hose. Even if it is a few hundred feet at a time.

Thanks Jimmy. Both career and volunteer are hurt by the current conditions. Some more examples that would need to be addressed:

-An ongoing drainage problem has led to the removal of all the Sheetrock and drop ceiling tiles in the gym at station 5. New materials were purchased, but never installed, because the drainage problem can't be fixed.

-In the same station, black mold was discovered to have formed in the floor of the career quarters (water seems to be a recurring issue at the place). Giving credit to the city, they immediately fixed the situation, but it's only a matter of time before the problem rears it's head again.

-Some of the restrooms (stations 3 & 5) could definitely use repair. I believe station 5 is down to one working toilet.

-None of the stations are equipped with a way to capture diesel particulates. I'm not sure if some of the stations could be so equipped, even if the money for the systems existed. This is especially problematic in stations 2 & 4, which have kitchens and living quarters located directly behind the apparatus bay, separated only by interior doors that aren't exactly airtight.

There's also all the odd jobs that don't quite fall into the "fixing up stations in disrepair" category. Things like adding sprinklers to station 1, or reflooring station 3. Jobs like that are going to add up over the next 30 years; or more likely end completely, thus accelerating the decline of the existing firehouses. After all, the city isn't going to be doing much preventative maintenance if they can't stay ahead of the curve with the dilapidated stuff.

Clarifying my earlier point: This is the municipal equivalent of trading in your rusty 15 year old pick-up truck for a more economical car. After the initial sticker shock, you can end up saving quite a bit after factoring in fuel consumption and maintenance. Continuing that analogy, any possible savings is wiped off the board if you decide to purchase something like a Cadillac.

That architectural rendering is what happens when everyone with input into the project has a dream of what they'd like to see included. "It needs ten bays, and they should be drive through, and a 300 person hall, and a museum!"* Go to a firm with snippets like that, hand them a check, and they'll design it for you. It's not their job to sit a person down and bring them back down to Earth, they're basically salesmen to a point. Now it's up to the city to scale that design back to something a little more reasonable.

When I first saw this rendering, I felt as a lot of you on this board felt, that thing is ridiculous. Hell, I still feel that way. However, the need is definitely there. Just two of the five stations PFD currently operates out of each use around 1,000 gallons of fuel oil per month in the winter. They also burn through the equivalent in electricity for AC all year round. That's right, the houses have such inefficient systems that the heat runs constantly, roasting certain areas necessitating the use of AC. Factor in the exponential rise in the cost of energy since the beginning of the decade, which shows no signs of slowing, and abandoning these buildings for something with new technology and without catastrophic design flaws starts to look like a good idea. There's also the fact that the City doesn't even own all of the firehouses the FD operates out of. So the city is actually paying rent to house some of its equipment (in a firehouse that abuts the district line, no less).

You come to the point where you realize that dumping money into something just isn't yielding much of a return. Last year, a firehouse was shut down for health reasons, sustained thousands of dollars worth of damage, was repaired, and is now the same inefficient and unsanitary place it was before all that money went into it. The guys working there actually started a competition to see who could find the biggest roach and tape it to the wall. None of them were smaller then my thumb.

So yes, Peekskill is in desperate need of updated, centralized facilities. Yes, this rendering is a monolith that goes way too far with taxpayer money. Hopefully, that won't torpedo the cause in the upcoming political battle in Peekskill.

And no, nothing is wrong with our trucks, if that's what you meant to ask.

*Note that not all of those suggestions necessarily came from the Fire Dept

** Also note that I only speak for myself, not the department, union, or coworkers.

Yes it is a $15 million project, but it is going to be way more efficient than our current stations, which to bring up to "standard" would probably cost more than $15m. Six separate fuel eating, insect/rodent infested stations just don't make sense for the Peekskill FD anymore.

See, who says career and volunteer can't agree? Great point.

Flying is a dangerous business. LE helicopters work in extremely difficult operations; adding to that danger. We should all take a minute to remember that. Guys like Chris; LE's eye in the sky provide an invaluable service to help keep the rest of us safe. Therefore I thank them.

Well said. We often take for granted the risks that these guys take, just because it's become so routine in our lives.

Without question, marijuana is dangerous. It is a gateway drug to cigarettes, which have a devastating effect on health and performance.

Wait, I'm really bad at detecting sarcasm over the internet, so I apologize if I'm taking that literally. You just said that marijuana (the illegal substance that we spend the lion's share of an estimated $600 per second fighting) is dangerous primarily because it could possibly lead to people using a drug that they can buy at a Wal-Mart or deli or gas station?

Again, congratulations and thank you to all the police involved in this raid. I just wish the government would put their exceptional talents to use against meth cooks or gun runners.

You're not alone on that one. I believe that it should be legalized, regulated, and taxed like tobacco and alcohol. However, until then...it's off limits.

Just my $0.02.

Oh, absolutely. I'm not encouraging people to break the law. I'm just calling the existing law ridiculous. Want lower cost for health care/lower taxes/a chance to chip away at the national debt? Marijuana tax revenue could offset that. Want to see less money going into drug dealers pockets? Legalized marijuana would end that.

Of course, if I was a smoker, legalization is the last thing I'd want. What's a pack of cigarettes go for nowadays?

I know I'll be alone on this...

There is no law or policy in the U.S. more off base or flat out wrong than our marijuana laws. There is no reason why industrial hemp and marijuana should not be legal. Before anyone asks, no I'm not a smoker, and my employer has enough negative drug tests to back up that claim.

Earlier I pointed out about being on 1 knee. Other then when crawling, the majority of instructors (including myself) teach and consistently reinforce staying off both knees when operating. Being on both knees is not as stable as being on at least 1 knee

I think this is similar to what I do. I've always referred to it as "sprawling", which anyone who's ever wrestled or watched a UFC fight should be familiar with. I started doing it in the academy, because sometimes I feel like my knees belong to a guy twice my age. Basically, get down in a position as if you were going to to a pushup, then bend your elbows and bring one leg forward so that your knee almost makes contact with your elbow.

You'll be in a much lower profile compared to being on both knees. You'll be able to move faster, if conditions allow. Your weight will be more evenly distributed, and you'll have the power of both your quadriceps readily available, which (for a small guy like me) is a definite plus.

Edit: The needless exposure to carcinogens came from within the firehouse and inadequate ventilation systems that simply stirred and spread diesel particulate matter up, around and onto all surfaces; including everything in our kitchens, dormitories and day rooms. The members today will never experience this thankfully.

If only that were the case everywhere, Captain.

It's nice to see locals getting behind a good cause such as this. I'll be there.

Ya'll need to get a Chipotles!!!! Awesome burrito joint!

Amen to that, nothing like a burrito the size of a regulation NCAA football.

I'm by no means an expert in the fire service. I haven't "crawled down many hallways" like some people on here, but this report breaks everything down into a beautiful simplicity. Honestly, if everything in there is true, this is a bona fide homerun for both the Westchester fire service and the taxpayers that support it.

Long story short, consolidation would deliver fully staffed engines and trucks to every area in question within the allotted NFPA timeframe, without stripping other areas of coverage, while reducing ISO rating and overhead costs. All for an estimated annual cost of $382 per capita. Excellent work, Captain Nechis and everyone involved.

Will it be available to read anywhere online?

The study is available for download on Lohud.com at the link given on the top of this page.

EDIT: Here is a direct link: http://www.lohud.com/assets/pdf/BH13777471.PDF

A million dollars sounds like a lot, but in the grand scheme of things can turn out to be very little. While it's great to see the funding go to a department that really and truly needs it, can MV city hall cry poverty and not put up the rest of the needed money?

Now lets see here, will we have another this month to make it 6????? This might sadly be a 3 x 3 if you think of the old wives' tale..............

David Carradine

Ed McMahon

Farrah Fawcett

Michael Jackson

Billy Mays

{place the next celebrity here}

Bea Arthur

Also...