gamewell45

Bill A7699A was signed into law by Govenor Patterson Friday. This will allow volunteer Emergency Services Workers to participate in certain municipal public employee health Insurance Plans.

The cost of the participation will be paid for by the volunteers.

Its nice to see the state recognizing the valuable contributions made by the volunteers . Likewise FASNY did an excellent job looking out for the best interests of the volunteers of the State of New York.

The law goes into effect in 180 days from the signing of the Bill.

5 or 6 people? 3 or 4 is more than enough.

I was factoring in the EMT, Driver, 2 fire police for traffic/scene safety and 2 additional hands incase help lifting is needed.

what a great ? In my fire department I know there are people that go on calls for EMS all the time. I have notice that if there is a fire or MVA we get more responders on the scene. I do wish at times we have more for the EMS. I understand that poeple are working have children at home and can't come, but why is there more when we have a fire or MVA. We also have some that just don't respond because they don't want to or they don't think they can help.

If i'm reading your post correctly, its most likely because EMS calls don't require the manpower you'd need for a MVA or fire call. Having 40 or 50 people show up for an EMS call would be a waste of manpower and time. If you have 5-6 people to assist at an EMS scene normally thats all you need.

Hmm Here's my 2 cents... (By the end of this thread, that should be a lot of cents!) Anyway, I joined my local Volunteer Fire and Rescue squads to donate my time. When I sign up for standby or am at the firehouse, I am obligated to respond to any and all calls. One cannot tell me that I have to respond when I'm at my paying job or even like now when I am at home alone with my infant daughter. I just don't sign up during the times when I know I cannot go. How could someone or some law tell me that I have to respond right now?

John

The answer is pure and simple; they can't. Especially if your at home. If your at the fire station (for whatever reason) and you can't reasonably respond to the call, thats where it ends. Most, if not all volunteer fire departments understand the nature of the system and won't even tread into that territory.

paid or vollie doesn't matter, as long as the ambulance and crew is there when called upon and better so when the patient does not have to foot a single penny.

vacguy, you are correct in your thinking. Excellent response.

I tried posting this before; I guess it didn't take, but here it goes again. There was an article in the NY Daily News regarding FDNY firefighter charged with grand larceny; apparently others recently have been caught doing the same thing. I wonder if this has been a problem in other departments or Just a FDNY issue.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/ny_crime/2...arceny_rap.html

If this is true, this 18 year veteran stands to lose alot.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/ny_crime/2...arceny_rap.html

it is a very tough law to follow, I took an oath to do the best I can bla bla bla, and if you are going to follow it you cant pick and choose, You stay outside and wait even if it is your house, your family, your neighbor etc.

we can use all kinds of arguements and both sides can be right

vacant boarded up building that the owner stopped caring for 10 yrs ago is different than the 2.5 frame around the corner, also I will will use this if I have to " i thought or felt someone was inside the structure" and then you can weave around the 2in/2out

most of the runs where I work are a quick response, I feel if you can hold the fire while it is still small, you have a lesser chance of the things that can go wrong as the fire increases

the cities / towns / villages/ fire districts get to pick and choose which NFPA guidelines they want to adopt, How many depts ride 4 ff's on each apparatus?

If there is a Fatal fire there will be plenty of finger pointing to go around whichever way you choose.

Chris or anybody else how about this one Engine 1 with 1 officer and 3 ff's on scene followed by the chief by himself, working fire, homeowner states she was cooking and it flared up in the kitchen, nobody else home. Chief orders you (the Lt) to stretch a line to the kitchen, your mpo isnt part of the 2in/2out the chief isnt part of the 2in/2out and you are aware of the law, what do you do???

If you have reasonable assurance that the house is clear, then you tell the chief, sorry, no can do until we have proper staffing. Better call another engine or ladder or wait for the volunteers to show up if you have any. No need taking unnecessary risks or putting someone in danger by cutting corners. God forbid that the initial entry crew gets into trouble and someone gets hurt or killed, they are going to point the fingers at you and cite the law and they would be right.

I'll second that I like coffee not Starbucks tar.

Starbucks Coffee = burnt coffee

Double D's (dunkin donuts) is infinitely superior.

What is and "excempt" fireman?

An Exempt Firefighter is a volunteer fireman who's served 5 or more years of active service in a volunteer fire company/district/department.

is there even any firefighters that are active or were, that belong to this social club . I hear a lot of people talk about going to the bar there and they know nothing of the fire service. When did this club become such a social club? What do they need to go out and get a rig for? Maybe they should take some of that money and give it to a city they resdie in that could put that money to good use, like Poughkeepsie.

Why should they give money to the city that they earned or worked for? Maybe the city should trim some fat from the budget or "Sell" their city to prospective commercial businesses to help rejuvenate the depressed areas and stop looking for handouts.

The club consists of Active firefighters, Exempt Firefighters, social members (Buffs, wanna-bee's, etc) and I believe honorary members. As far as i know, they don't receive any two percent monies. They do some sort of fund raising work to run the organization. and they march in parades as well....Thats about all i know about the group.

Good luck collecting money from some of the people. Some out of state drivers may not have insurance on their vehicles (I believe there are still some states where it is not a requirement that you have any insurance on your vehicle) and it would be interesting to see how they'd go about collecting it.

Automatic alarms is one thing; but charging for other services might become more of a headache then its worth in collecting the monies.

And to all of you are talking about how a rig can be stolen at a call if it isn't being attended to, do you keep someone with it when you go to a parade? When you're inside at a funeral?

Yeah, I didn't think so.

Let's face reality, if someone wants to steal it, they're going to. It doesn't matter if it is outside or in quarters - running or not.

I realize that every department has different policies, however in my department, the driver stays with the truck during parades, funerals, details, etc unless someone (such as another firefighter or fire-police officer) is designated to replace him to watch the trucks for security purposes only. If the trucks are running, then another qualified driver must relieve the driver requesting relief.

While there can be no guarantee that a manned fire apparatus will never be stolen nor vandalized, the chances are lessened with someone watching the fort.

7 engines on the scene, your engine didnt get called to the scene for pumping but needed extra manpower, still going to babysit the apparatus, same thing with a truck, no way to setup due to wires or later arrival and being boxed out, lots of ground ladders on all the closer trucks, still want the chauffeur to stay with the apparatus?

always and nevers have a very limited place in the fire service.

yes, because if anything happens to that truck or someone gets hurt if the truck moves while its unattended, the driver will be held accountable.

I'm starting another topic about driver leaving their rigs as mentiond by a few members in the aggressive laddering topic. I'm not talking about "beaching the whale" in order to have all personnel operate at a fire scene. In that case the apparatus is not being used other than a personnel transport and "tool box" so to speak.

I'm asking should an engine company MPO or ladder company chauffeur leave their pump panel or turntable at a working structure fire?

I believe that the apparatus drive should not leave their apparatus while the truck is operating in that particular fashion. To much can go wrong while lines are in operation or the aerial having personnel climbing up to the roof. Granted there are situations where the driver must get something from a compartment on the truck but still has a watchful eye on the apparatus. I'm taking about setting it up and totally abandoning it with personnel working off of it. It seems a lot of times because of manpower constraints thought the fire service, the driver sets up and leaves the most vital position on the rig.

I firmly believe the driver shouldn't leave the rig while under operation unless relieved by an equally qualified operator.

What do you all think?

My position (and the position of every fire department i've been a member of) is the MPO/Chauffeur stays with the apparatus at all times unless relieved by a qualified operator whether the pumper/ladder truck is in active use or parked at the scene. The chauffeur has complete responsibility for that apparatus once it leaves the fire station until its returned and parked.

So who's land is the house on? State land? How is it that it isn't in anyone's fire district, I've never heard of that before.

Chris, when I was a fireman in Westchester in the mid-1970's i was aware of two areas that were in "no man's land".....Usonia homes in Mount Pleasant and a part of Silver Lake in West Harrison. They were in no fire distrnict or fire protection district at the time; evenutally Usonia was able to get fire protection from Pleasantville FD in the mid-1980's i recall; but i'm not sure if Silver Lake ever was able to get into a fire district. Those were the only two area i knew of with no fire protection tho' i'm sure there are most likely more throughout the state..

This is probably going to run long, I apologize.

My opinions are a little different from a lot of people on this site. I think it's because I didn't "grow up" in the firehouse, or because I'm relatively new to this career, or whatever. As such, I tend to look at things not from a "fire department" perspective, but from a "real world" perspective. In the world outside of the firehouse, sayings like "it's tradition!!!" or "that's just the way it's always been" have no weight. If you can't justify your outdated methods, you'll either be jobless or out of business in no time at all. In a capitalist system, there's no room for those with poor responses to problems that have arisen. Yet, because of public ignorance of our profession, or an "out of sight, out of mind" mentality, the fire service is constantly given a free pass. Thus, I'm going to put forth this possibly controversial idea: Career officers everywhere (within reason).

If you want to fix a problem, you start at the top. The equipment your department uses, the type of fires you fight, even manpower itself, all of them aren't as important as who's in charge. It's not an opinion, it's a fact. Military doctrine dating as far back as 2,500 years ago states this, and it has been continually echoed by every successful military outfit in history. From China, to Rome, to West Point. If you want an example, look no further than our own Civil War. One side had double the manpower, better industry and far superior equipment in comparison to the other, and still managed to lose for two to three years before finally turning things around to win what should have been an easy victory. History is littered with similar stories, and what do they all have in common? Brilliant leaders on the side of the underdog. Some were great tactitians, some had good heads for logistics. A great fire officer doesn't get the luxury of choosing to be one or the other, he needs to be both. We can all agree that a fire department is a paramilitary organization, so the relevance of these examples should be undeniable.

When people look at a department and say it has X amount of problems, I say that it has one. If you place a properly schooled officer in charge of an ailing situation, many problems begin to disappear. Equipment isn't up to snuff? Training is a joke? You now have somebody personally responisble for rectifying those situations. They might not be able to fix your manpower issue (although you'll gain a strong voice for your cause), but they can maximize both the output and safety of your current staff. I'm sure many of you would agree that a small, well managed and cohesive unit is preferable to a mob with good intentions.

Why do they have to be career officers? A simple one word answer: time. Starting with the amount of time it takes to educate an officer, to the amount of time it takes weekly to run a fire department, there just aren't enough hours in the day to expect someone to be able to volunteer to do the job. It's not a slight against anyone, it's just a mathematical impossibility. If you're thinking that being an officer begins with the alarm sounding and ends when your company returns, you're sorely mistaken. An officer is also responsible for scheduling, maintaining reports, drilling, basically anything that gets taken for granted when you just expect your department to magically run itself. Even if it wasn't an impossibility for someone to devote the required time, a person with a college level education (which a true fire officer is) shouldn't be expected to do their job for free. Just as we don't expect doctors or lawyers to render their services free of charge, we shouldn't expect any different from our fire officers.

Another few reasons for all career officers? Standards, and freedom to do what's right. All of you saying that the state needs to set black and white requirements to be a firefighter are 100% right, but before we worry about the rank and file, let's worry about those who can do the most damage by not being qualified. Furthermore, let's not elect officers, it's just bad on all counts. The military doesn't have their rank and file get together to decide who should run things for the next few years, why should we? It makes no sense. It also opens up the fire service to politics, two things that should never coincide. Good officers have to make hard decisions, and hard decisions hurt feelings and burn bridges. A fire officer should never have to weigh doing what's right against getting reelected. This very reason is why Supreme Court Justices are appointed for life.

I await the flames, or the thread getting locked, whichever comes first.

Raz, there's definitely alot of merit in what you've said. Its rational and makes sense.

Thanks for clearing that up.

So here's one for you to chew on that is as realistic and productive as cutting the VFDs budget by 90%.

Since by the virtue of the Mayor's own statements this is about money and safety, why doesn't the SFRD staff take a pay and benefit cut of say....Ohh, maybe about 15-20%. This will allow the hiring of additional FFs to cover each district with at least one 4 man engine or truck company each, north of the "border" with no increase in the budget. Win - win as I see it. The SFRD gets more firefighters and the residents are therefore safer, and it won't cost the taxpayers anymore than it does now. If the MAIN factors in all this are public safety and the budget, than there is no logical argument.

Cogs

Cogs, the career guys are covered by a collective bargaining agreement that was agreed to by the city and union. Penalizing the career guys financially over this dispute is not only unfair, it violates the spirit of the collective bargaining process. Even attempting to broach this subject with the union could cause considerable damage to the city's credibility next time contract talks come around. There would be no trust between the parties and the long-term ramifications would be damaging for both sides in this dispute.

I'm a enthusiasic supporter of the volunteer system, but not at the expense of career staff already employed. When they were hired, there was a committment from both sides both legally and morally & as taxpayers there is an obligation to honor that.

I'm sure with time and patience, this issue will be resolved between the city and volunteers and everyone will move past this. Just my opinion as an non-resident of your state.

At Hipster bars in LES and Williamsburg it still is the staple of drinking, its like two dollars a can, but I think for these people it is more of an "ironic fashion accessory"

When we'd go out and visit with our Brother firefighters in Pittsburgh, Pa., they'd invite us to go out with them and "pump some iron". The first time we weren't too sure what they meant until we ended up at the bar drinking Iron City Beer. Even when served chilled, it was brutal stuff to try and drink.

Oh no........ Not more HIPPA garbage again........ And it's HIPAA not HIPPA - HIPAA stands for "HEALTH INSURANCE PORTABILITY AND ACCOUNTABILITY ACT OF 1996" and only pertains to medical documents/records and has nothing to do with photo's........ I am SOOOOOOO tired of people constantly relating HIPAA to Emergency Service Photography.....

Here is a link that explains HIPAA - http://www.hhs.gov/ocr/hipaa/

Would everybody please read over all the info and kindly show me where it mentions anything about Emergency Service Photography...........................................

Yes, it is cool taking fireground photo's and that's why I do it........ And if you can't take photo's safely on the fireground then you shouldn't be on the fireground- IN ANY CAPACITY.......

Seth, can you put the above link on the sign up page and have a disclaimer that they have read and fully understand the HIPAA laws....... Somebody better do it because of all the posts I see telling or suggesting to me that I can't take photo's because of HIPAA it's pretty obvious that many people don't understand the law and if that's the case, it's pretty likely that it's being violated.....

Sorry gang........ But this struck a nerve........ :angry:

As far fetched as this may sound, if you were photographing medical documents on the fire scene such as the forms used by EMS personnel when they assess patients and publishing them, that could constitute a violation of HIPAA. In reading the link you supplied, I found the following paragraph to be most pursuasive: 本簡明資訊向您說明根據OCR執行的法律您享有的民權。同時也告訴您如何提出申訴。 Although it is in a foreign language, for those of you who can read it, will shed light on any questions you may have about HIPAA and yes Photounit you are 100% correct in your statement.

taking pictures of a fire scene. its a cool thing to do and everybody is guilty including myself. but there are legal and physical risks to it. you can violate hippa laws and if you paying attention to taking pictures your really not paying attention to your saftey many people have gotten hurt doing this i just wanna hear some other peoples opinions on this.

As long as you do not violate "hippa" laws you can snap away to your hearts content. The working press enjoys in some cases, unprecedented access to fire and accident scenes, though rarely do they attempt to enter someones residence in an effort to take photos tho' some paparazzi will stop at no ends to get "that photo" including breaking the law.

Bud Sucks, Miller Sucks, Coors Sucks and Sam Adams is heading down the tubes.

There are a million micro-brews out there that make great stuff that you can find at any beer store. Some of the bigger ones are great too. Brooklyn Brewery, to be local, or Captain Lawrence to be REALLY local. It's in Pleasantville!

During my college years, Pabst Blue Ribbon was the staple of drinking. If It was served almost bone-chilling cold, it was drinkable. I used to be able to get it for .25 per can.

I don't recall ever being compensated as a volunteer in my 28 years. When I first joined all we recieved was a dinner once a year. The company picnic we also had came out of our own pockets and when you died your family recieved a benefit from the benevolent association. I will agree over time certain perks have been introduced but to say we have always been compensated is simply not true.

HFD you are so correct; when i became a volunteer almost 33 years ago, we received absolutely nothing except as you mentioned a death benefit which your estate received from the BA. The district gave us nothing for many years; of course we didn't expect anything, however the introduction of some perks (LOSAP mainly) was a nice gesture by the district to say "thanks" for our efforts. Plenty of districts outside the suburbs to this day give their volunteers nothing, including no LOSAP program.

What about those children who have WORKING parents but may not have health benefits at their jobs? Bet they have to pay doctors "out of their pocket". When I had my children 20+ years ago, insurance did not cover "well baby care", so every time I took them to the doctor for check-ups, vaccines, etc., it came "out of our pocket".

The way I am understanding it is, you are not getting handed $500, you are getting a $500 deduction on your State income tax. That's why I said "measly", because to me a $500 tax deduction is not a tremendous amount like some are making it sound and that it is going to be such "a huge burden on the taxpayers".

The health benefit issue is really off topic so i don't want to get into it but i'd be happy to debate it with you in another thread specifically on this topic.

I believe that the $500 is real money; just like the $200 tax credit volunteers got this past year was real money.

How come I don't see anyone on here complaining about the Medicaid system; have you seen the commercial on TV where the parents talk about how their child gets taken care of for FREE??? Or the segment that Eyewitness News had on the other morning about the State paying people for sending their kids to school and attending parent-teacher conferences??? That is what disgusts me about where my tax dollars are going - not a measly $500 tax CREDIT going to volunteers.

What are we supposed to do with these children who have no medical benefits? Deny them treatment and possibly have them get into a life threatening situation? Somehow that goes against the grain of a civilized society. I also happen to think that $500.00 is not a measly amount of money. Its sure better then what we now have.