masterofmetal85

I want what everyone wants but I think should realize that unions are also companies. They hire employees and go through some of the same process as corporate companies go through in terms of tax id, payroll etc and their source of income is your money....if it were a true "union" in the sense there wouldn't be a separate 3rd party company representing disgruntled employees. The disgruntled employees would represent themselves and their would be no union initiation fees and weekly dues. TC doesn't need a "union" its employees are its union, they just don't realize it. If a majority of them got together and said hey we don't like the way things are happening here and tried to grab as many of other TC employees as possible and brought a request to the upper echelon and said "hey you need to pay EMTS x $ and medics x $ and we want these types of benefits. TC will obviously say no then they all say "ok fine we don't show up to work for a few days." The question is will TC be able to survive if 85-90% of their NY state workforce is AWOL, will they be able to rapidly hire and replace those 85-90% missing?

My answer is maybe, because there's always people especially in EMS that are looking for/are desperate for work. With the rate of new grads on the street you'll never prevent them from walking in the door to TC and filing applications and if TC is that short they'll start running 24/7 open house. Each medic program in NYC alone (there's 3 I believe) graduates 20-30 students twice a year. So that's any where from 120-180 new medics in NYC where are they going? I didn't touch on EMT graduates. Then there's programs in westchester, LI, Hudson valley etc. You want the answer to better treatment for EMS, its simple economics with supply and demand. If I were to open a new company, wherever it is (and I'd love to in reality one day) I can pay like crap and treat the workers like crap and you know what? one leaves and an ad goes up on craigslist and a few other sites: monster, indeed.com, Jobsearch etc etc and I'll find more then enough replacements within a few days. You want a lower supply and higher demand shut down EMS programs for medics and EMTs for about two years maybe three watch how much better you're working conditions and pay improve. These major companies AMR TC Rural Metro have analysts project payroll based on need suppy demand etc they're so confident in knowing that you're just another number because in reality you are. There's another Medic/EMT waiting at the door to fill out an application or already did and is waiting to get called back. This is just the truth. Take Pharmacists for example; only 2 programs exist in nyc that graduate RPh's, Long Island University in downtown BK and St Johns in queens not only are these classes small its EXTREMELY competitive to get into these programs which only graduate a class once a year. They're held to a much higher standard. That's why a new grad out of pharm school gets a job in the back of a walgreens or a CVS for $50+ / hr with a neat benefits package. And it seems that theres always a new chain pharmacy opening up a store every where I look. Face it you want EMS to be held to a similar to standard and prestige then it starts at the academic level. Make Para-medicine a 2 year or 4 year program, raise the standards to be highly competitive and watch the rates of incoming and outgoing students drop which in turns leaves less pawns for the private companies and municipal agencies which in turn they'll place more value then they do now on the head of a paramedic. Look unions shouldn't be about bitching and whining over a late call or two or being mandated that's part of the job and that's our job if we choose to get on that ambulance everyday. If that's someones main reason for aching for a union then choose a different profession maybe a 9-5 M-F cause this ain't it. People ache for unions mostly for salary increase and good benefits...well I just gave one way to establish a good prestigious and respectable reputation for EMS workers where the upper management will actually look at us a little differently not just some slaves in a van with their company name on it.

Well if you had presented your opinion in a respectful way, then perhaps you might have gotten responses that were more respectful.

ok "kind sir" I said this "I for one despise and loathe unions, so my opinion is biased and I'll stop with that. Theyre a bunch of mafia thugs who only push to sell their "product" which is a membership. They only care about themselves, gaining more members and how they can control and increase power. Employees should be given a choice whether or not to join a union when incoming to a company."

This reflects my negative opinion on unions and how I feel about them regardless of the reason it's my outlook on a workforce responding to another company that many people love to call a "union". The second & third sentence comes from articles and videos I researched into. Regardless if you want to agree or disagree with them I have put some validity to said articles and videos. The fourth sentence again states my opinion why a worker shouldn't be forced to join a union upon being hired by a unionized agency ie being hired by empress, fdny , a hospital etc. which I will hold onto till the day I die... if this is the land of the so- called free (which I'm finding out isn't the case day by day... we might as well use the constitution for toilet paper) why do I have to submit my paycheck to union deductions if I sign up to work for a unionized agency whether anyone argues if its beneficial or harmful necessary or not I don't care it shouldn't be forced on any incoming new employees, that to me is foul; and no one can provide a rational for this yet the only thing I'll probably here is that's the way it is too bad.

Now...

you said this:

"I've always worked union my entire life, so I can testify to the benefits of being union.....Just my two cents from a veteran union member. " in a previous post

.......I can see now why you took this personal

Would you still take that FDNY EMS gig without all the union perks? No pension, no health insurance, no LOD benefits, and no civil service protection? Its available with Transcare and they pay more. They're constantly hiring for 911.

Well maybe I wanted to work for FDNY but again my issue is why do I have to be forced to accept a union as an agreement for being hired there.

wow.. How long have you been doing career EMS? You gripe about how money needs to be higher for paramedics and EMT's yet you shoot down the most influential and logical way of doing? You said you worked for a union for citywide.. Funny i never knew they had one. Was this for the ambulete or ambulance divison. Your on here asking about jobs, saying that no one is hiring.. Well I know for a fact that Empress is hiring as is transcare. The only thing is to work for empress you must be in the union. They dont give you a choice. is that a reason why you dont want to work there cause they are unionized?.

It EMS brothers like you who make it harder for the rest of us to further our careers and livelihood. While you are untitled to your opinion. I would strongly incourage you to look at unions openmindedly.. Cause with out unions in certin companys. You would make a fraction of what is considered starting pay in this area, and there would be nothing you could do, short of loosing your job to get fair rights.. ( not sighting any specific company just making a generalized statement)

Citywides union is across the board except for management. I was a medic for them at 21$/ hr which is the same practically for all privates in NYC TC Assist, senior care , primary care, 1st response, all non union and pay 20-23$ and the benefits were not outstanding with citywide anyways. Plus I found it a little odd that most of their BLS crews who were screwing the dispatchers were doing nothing while the ALS crews were doing all their BLS calls (discharges, renal runs, appointments etc) in fact I've been sent to do calls like while a BLS crew was sent to a nursing home for a diff breather or Chest pain on numerous occasions. I didn't b**** about it to anyone I just went to my supervisor and said hey can you make me per diem instead of full time and that was that. The favoritism still existed. There was a guy there who I did my one ride along with and he was there for 15 + years only making 25$ which is $4 more then what I started with.

I wasn't aware of empress hiring last I checked they weren't ( a couple of months ago)and TC i used to work for and they don't rehire anyone whether you quite or got fired (a good friend of mine was @ TC and went to FDNY she wanted to go per diem in stead of quiting but they fired her anyways because the notice to go per diem was less then 2 weeks notice)

Thats an absolute scam and should be stopped. But are you trying to say its only unions and the poor that are scamming the system?? Everyone is doing it. Doesn't make it right, but you have to be honest and point out fraud on all sides.

Lots of unions got deep in bed with the mob. Some still are. They did a great disservice to the labor movement. But again is labor the only criminals? How many business over the years have been found to willfully allow their products or practices to hurt and kill people. How many workers lives have been sacrificed in the name of profitability? You're not casting every business with the same blankets as you're using for labor. Why?

There's a lot of reasons that nurses make more. Unions will not be a quick fix. But do me a favor and look at all the work rules and safety requirements for their employers. Who do you think got nurses their training standardization, staffing minimums, workday limits, infectious disease precautions, etc. These are all union advances. You can cross that picket line, but where do you think raises come from? Do you think hospitals really give up every penny they can towards employee compensation?? The hospital administrators job, their primary responsibility is financial stability. They need that hospital to run as cheaply as humanly possible. They'd do backflips if they could hire nurses for half of what they're currently being paid. The only thing stopping them from slashing your wages and benefits are unions. The fear that the nurses will all walk out in protest and shut the hospital down. Their greed vs our greed, thats all this is about.

exactly right all the comments pro union I've heard have been self centered and self gratifying and look what they did for me and look what they did for that guy. The unions don't care about you as long as you keep paying them, its greed all of it on both sides. A mans word is valued at crap these days when the start of this nation when someone gave you their word they meant it. I don't know when this red tape BS came in but its pathetic and has no integrity, and promotes bad habits such as laziness. It should be wake up in the morning to a nice breakfast made by your wife, drink your coffee and read the paper, drive or take a bus/train to work, walk in to work, punch in, do your assignments, mind your business, work as hard as you can all the while being proud of your work, and then punch go home sit down for dinner with the wife and kids have a little family time afterwards make love to your wife say your prayers and go to sleep to wake up and do it all over again the next day. Why this isn't the picture for the average household is beyond me because when I hear the American dream this is what I picture. This is country is beyond %&*#ed and I'm wondering if there is anything to do to save it. Yes we live in a capitalist society where small business can get started and grow to big businesses that's the beauty of the USA. But not everyone is meant to be a private business owner, some of us just want to work and simply be happy with what we do.

Federal law prohibits mandatory membership in labor unions, however if you opt not to join the union (except in right-to-work states, where no membership/dues/fees are required), you are still required to pay a fee equal to what the dues and customary fees would be, unless you are an agency fee payer objector (see Beck vs. CWA), then you are only required to pay a fee based on contract maintenance/negotiations, etc which in most cases results in 15% reduction in the fees. New York is an Agency Fee Payer State.

I'm under the impression that as a nurse joining a hospital or an EMT/Medic joining a FD like FDNY EMS or joining any union shop in particular you have to shell out union dues. I can't be hired by empress or FDNY or a hospital and say as a full time employee ( FDNY only hires full time) I opt to not be a part of the union. I know I'm right based on experience, and that's my grief people should be given a choice. No matter how small the percentage even if its just one person who says I do not wish to be a part of this union but I enjoy working here they should be given that right.

It's pretty apparent that with your vast life and work experience you've never been part of a strong union or worked in a place that having a strong union..or in any case a union period to have 1 voice with a lot backing stops some utterly ridiculous, sometimes close to criminal actions from taking place. Just like the old EF Hutton commericial used to say when EF Hutton calls...people listen. For many of us when our union leadership calls...people listen and take action or through appropriate processes take action. Not sure what union you were exposed to, but I don't know what "power" you think is so important to them. They push membership because there is power in numbers to gain good for the greater..not individuals. By your comments that you loathe unions based on gaining more numbers, I'm going to assume then that you are not a volunteer or never have been. If there is one group that is into gaining numbers so they can retain, gain and have more control and increased power, its volunteer organizations. And to further educate you, anyone can cross a "picket line." In fact anyone in emergency services has to, to "punch in" as its illegal for us to strike under the Taylor Law. But I'm willing to put money down from reading some of your posts over the past weeks that you're one of the first ones to whine or complain about something. How do you think those things will get accomplished? Well if you have a union you have a group of people who should have access to management and things well above them to force action if its an unfair and/or unsafe condition. So while the union won't pay my bills, they will damn well make sure I'm able to pay my bills to get paid a fair wage, fight for fair raises, swim through the political BS of crying no money that is often said, and ensure I have protections and other fair employment practices for all. Do yourself a favor..stop watching TV and read about the advances that unions have made over the history of their existance and what they still do everyday for thousands of people. Your quest and constant banter about "starting pay" is exactly one reason why EMS has a hard time gaining a foothold or strong unions as many of you pay shop and float to many companies..which by the way their bottom line is to make money...so good luck ever making what the rest of us in the other emergency services branches make.

I mean this as no offense, but to be honest some unions I have to giggle and shake my head at and even more so, some of their members who talk union shop and then in turn volunteer where there are union firefighters. I've seen "pro union" people standing at a picket line in the same city or fire district area they volunteer in when its a combination department. This is why I for one had a very difficult time giving full support to the Verizon strikers. I know some great people in Empress, but they have several members who volunteer in areas where their own people work under contracts and where there are union firefighters. This may get some of you panties in a bunch...and that's fine I really don't care, but facts are facts and truths are truths. I'm IAFF and I'm damn proud of it..and I for one do not do work that other unions do, nor will I ever volunteer where other firefighters are working.

As far as the starting pay...how about telling us some other contractual items that are present. Contracts come down to at times compromise and common sense. And common sense tells me that starting pay is what it is and if you're negotiating a contract...you don't negotiate pay for those who are not even here. I remember an old saying when I came on the job at a very low starting pay..."sorry kid, civil service and unions eat their young and we don't negotiate for those not on the job yet." All that other stuff you brought up is great..now find it in writing where it has to stay that way. If it was union and in contract..then it is so until the agreement expires and new contract is drafted.

Ah tsk tsk more judgmental then this I cannot be:

1) I worked in a union shop (citywide mobile response a private in the bronx) for several months it was a bs union that did nothing for me except deduct money out of my check everyweek. People were still getting canned for dumb stuff etc etc. So I switched over to per diem so as to not get the money taken out.

2) Volunteered 2 places in brooklyn and Staten Island most if not all my BLS experience came from there before becoming a medic and I loved...in fact just the other week I went to go fill out paperwork to get back into it.

3) As far as picket lines I don't really care if its EMS RN or a teacher I have a job to do I'm going to work I'll do it with pride, I'm not selfish

4) NEVER EVER WHINED about ANYTHING in public even if a thought crossed my mind I'm not selfish and not a crybaby. I was happy enough to have a job because if you knew me personally not having a job was a big deal to me. If my supervisor said jump I said how high and no I didn't have any military experience I was raised to be respectful and appreciative of any and all opportunities. If you don't like being taken advantage of in EMS buckle down and go to med school or become something else. I love EMS so much that even when done with RN school I still want a full time gig on a bus. Its the nature of the beast and I'll take the bad with the good.

5) I don't watch TV I read mostly and I formulated my opinion on articles based on pro and anti union

6) I think medics should be making more then nurses do for their hard work but they don't so yea starting pay is kind of a big deal

Are you possibly aware that perhaps the rank and file who voted on the contract felt that it was a wage offer theyf could accept? You could work for a company paying you $25 per hour and if you have no job security, the $25 per hour really has no meaning. Its not all about money, but of course I wouldn't expect you to comprehend that based on your followup postings.

Well money talks BS walks so yea its all about money, and there some companies like AMR in CT 1 location isnt unionized in bridgeport and they offer more pay so what are you saying theres no job protection. Common misconception spewed by union cronies thinking they can never get fired. I don't know about Empress benefits but MLSS a non union shop pays almost 2$ more an hour (still crap) but the company pays 100% of their benefits with a guaranteed 8 hours OT each week all this without a union. RNs start at 35-37$ + why can't empress match that with such a wonderful union. I'm in RN school and I don't care what nurses think I'll say it their faces EMS busts their asses way more then nurses ever will but yet they get 20+ dollars an hour more then medics and don't give me that BS its because of unions. And yea if I'm in a hospital and the nurses strike I'll be strolling right into work and punching in... say what you want ....God Bless America.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/04/nyregion/04drivers.html

oh wow look at this a mafia connection to a union that never happened before?!?! and the same union leader who is connected to the genevese family had an issue with nyc forcing an illegal school bus strike in dec 2011 which bloomberg went to the feds to get an injunction on.

oh and then there's an article about SIEU union in some state (I have to look for the article and believe me I will) that in conjunction with the state leaders all democrat decided that if you're a parent on welfare that you've been declared a public worker in charge of caring for children because you're receiving state money to do so. They proceeded to take a portion of that incoming welfare money as "union dues". So, our taxes we pay for medicaid; a percentage is going to unions. Now there's legal precedence watch other liberal states follow

Source please?

lets start with this jerk and we'll see how everyone digests it

Exactly Sean...LOL

I d love to hear the rational how a union is an answer to my problem and has anything to do with that

It doesnt seem like it is that hard to find employment in the EMS field around this area. You have SeniorCare in NYC along with TransCare and whoever else runs around there. You have Empress in Yonkers, Rockland Mobile Care/RPS in Rockland County/Tuxedo, Care1 in Dutchess, Mobile Life in Orange, Mobile Medic in Sullivan, NDP in Dutchess......plus you have the VACs that have paid EMTs (Port Jervis, Blooming Grove, New Windsor & Wallkill).

Now, back on the Union subject.............out of all the places listed above, only one is Unionized and that would be Empress. As I have stated in the beginning of this topic.........the employees of all of the agencies listed above would/could greatly benefit from being unionized.

Maybe when they see the benefits, they will motivate themselves to get the pay & benefits that they deserve for the HARD work & DEDICATION to their respective employers.

empress has a union yet their starting medic rate is 15.75

oh and sent an application to mobile medic tried following up and got the classic run around

It doesnt seem like it is that hard to find employment in the EMS field around this area. You have SeniorCare in NYC along with TransCare and whoever else runs around there. You have Empress in Yonkers, Rockland Mobile Care/RPS in Rockland County/Tuxedo, Care1 in Dutchess, Mobile Life in Orange, Mobile Medic in Sullivan, NDP in Dutchess......plus you have the VACs that have paid EMTs (Port Jervis, Blooming Grove, New Windsor & Wallkill).

Now, back on the Union subject.............out of all the places listed above, only one is Unionized and that would be Empress. As I have stated in the beginning of this topic.........the employees of all of the agencies listed above would/could greatly benefit from being unionized.

Maybe when they see the benefits, they will motivate themselves to get the pay & benefits that they deserve for the HARD work & DEDICATION to their respective employers.

used to work for TC

senior care isn't hiring according to their website

neither is RPs empress or MLSS

used to work with hvp so care1 might be a little tricky to get back in

I'll go out on a limb and say he's referring to your many posts here detailing your difficulty in finding employment.

Granted may be so but be that as It may how does that mean i need a union or would benefit from One. The economy stinks jobs in ems are far and few Between here in Nyc. CT AnD PA HAVE some more opportunities so im looking Into that.

Obama, Bush, Ron Paul, George Soros, the Koch Brothers, the Tea Party, OWS, etc are all doing what they do in the genuine belief that its best for this country. Saying that ANY of these people are out to ruin it shows how biased and blinded you are.

Youre Blind if you acctually think obama AnD soros has usa best interest at Heart so go ahead vote him in another 4 years

You know ideas like this is what gave birth to OWS and don't get me started on them

George Soros loves this country and democracy??? He's a damn communist against all classic American values: the centralized family, sacred marriage, law and order, the conservative stance on the economy etc etc and he loves America...am I living in the twilight zone??? What's next obamas the best president ever?? My heart bleeds for this flag and republic for which it stands in our current state and for its citizens who are so blinded with lies and skewered in their opinions

He's another young guy that was poisoned with a bunch of half truths and bullshit concerning the worst of union activities and history. Guys like him never experienced life without health insurance, OSHA, 40hr work week, sick leave, FMLA, and pensions. All of these and many more work place norms are a direct result of unions.

Unions only work when everyone sticks together. So line crossers are the lowest form of coward. You're absolutely right, unions don't pay your bills but how happy would you be working without anything I mentioned earlier?? Lots of jobs out there like that; migrant farm worker comes to mind. Good luck in your new career.

Oh and those things you mentioned earlier are already passed into law. So fortunately for me I'm not a farm worker working off the books, then these laws will apply to me even without a union.

I don't know MLSS from a hole in the ground, and from the past couple posts they seem like a great company. Their employees probably wouldn't benefit from unionizing if they are as good a deal as they appear. Unions are there to keep their employer honest. An honest and fair employer has nothing to worry about because the arbitrator would probably side with them in a labor dispute.

When we talk unionization lets be honest. The elephant in the room is transcare. Maybe care1 or other companies are problems but no one gripes harder that transcare employees.

ThEy gripe so Hard yet Back in 09 a union was voted against at their employee meetings By their griping employees so go figure.

He's another young guy that was poisoned with a bunch of half truths and bullshit concerning the worst of union activities and history. Guys like him never experienced life without health insurance, OSHA, 40hr work week, sick leave, FMLA, and pensions. All of these and many more work place norms are a direct result of unions.

Unions only work when everyone sticks together. So line crossers are the lowest form of coward. You're absolutely right, unions don't pay your bills but how happy would you be working without anything I mentioned earlier?? Lots of jobs out there like that; migrant farm worker comes to mind. Good luck in your new career.

I could go on and on ranting and raving citing anecdotal evidence posting youtube videos and articles etc etc but I'm not its 1 am and my sleep deserves more attention then addressing ignorance behind pro unions. Go lie in bed with the devil (ie SIEU,NEA, UFT etc etc) they're all crooks , they all supported occupy wall street, they're all puppets of George Soros.

Thanks to everyone for your positive posts regarding unions in Private EMS agencies. It is a pleasure to see that this idea seems to be gaining some ground. Many members will not post here, but even if they just read all the responses and pass them along to their fellow employees, it is good start.

I really hope that more members will post here & give us their thoughts or views on this topic. I know I stated in my original that the only way for employees of private ambulance services to be treated fairly and be paid what they deserve is to unionize. I took some time to read up on the UEMSW union website, this is the new union that the California AMR employees are trying to vote in to represent them. The power and unity of the UEMSW is becoming stronger and is quickly gaining national attention in the EMS field. It helps that the IAFF & the FDNY EMTs & Paramedics Unions are showing strong support for the UEMSW. I do support the idea of taking EMS away from the DOT & putting it under a more suitable Federal agency. Whether it is Homeland Security, Health & Human Services, NFPA or a newly created federal agency. This will help EMS throughout country become more standardized. So, EMTs & Medics across the USA get the same education, have the same protocols and the same scope of practice. The standardization of EMS across the Country will also help the unions in the fight for better pay and benefits for all EMS workers, both municipal and private.

Instead of waiting for the beaurocrats to figure things out, it would make sense for employees of the non-unionized private ambulance services to start at least looking into unions & fighting for what they deserve. I see no valid reason for not going in the union direction.

Empress EMS employees set the standard 15 years ago when they unionized. While being unionized isnt without some negatives, the good has far outweighed the bad. Empress is the top private ambulance service in the Hudson Valley area when it comes to pay, benefits and retention of employees. It would great to see employees of another top private ambulance services fromthe Hudson Valley follow the lead of the Empress EMS employees who blazed the path to unionization 15 years ago. Thecompany I am speaking of is Mobile Life Support Services. With over 300+ employees, their voices would be heard loud & clear if they were unionized. The employees of Mobile Life are some of the most hard working & dedicated EMTs & Paramedics I have ever met. They more than deserve to be compensated for the hard work & dedication, just like the employees of Empress are compensated for their hard work & dedication. Image the power of a union that had MLSS & Empress employeesas its membership? Just something to consider.

MLSS blows out Empress in pay starting out is 17.50+ at MLSS and 15.75 for Empress this is Medic rate. MLSS pays out of pocket for employee benefits and gives all employees 4 x 12 hour shifts so its guaranteed 8 hrs OT for fulltime workers. And MLSS is way more strick when it comes to professionalism and appearance /image then Empress. All this without a union.

I for one despise and loathe unions, so my opinion is biased and I'll stop with that. Theyre a bunch of mafia thugs who only push to sell their "product" which is a membership. They only care about themselves, gaining more members and how they can control and increase power. Employees should be given a choice whether or not to join a union when incoming to a company. I for one would cross the picket into work and punch in because the union isn't going to pay my bills.