highwaybuff

Date: 1-20-10
Time:1712
Location: Braziel Hill Rd
Frequency: 33.48, 46.46
Units Operating: Accord, Olive, Kerhonkson, Cripplebush,
Weather Conditions: 35 and near dark
Description Of Incident: Working trailer fire
Reporters/Writer: Patch6713
1712 - Dispatch for accord for a reported structure fire
1713 - 15-2 responding
1713 - Police responding
1714 - 15-B responding
1714 - County advising responding units - driveway only accessible by a 4x4. Occupants going back into the house to retrieve pets
1715 - Car 15 responding, given update
1716 - Olive command requesting Olive, Kerhonkson, Cripplebush with tankers to the scene
1716 - 15-30 responding
1716 - 15-2 O/S working fire
1718 - Car 15 requests lay 4 inch in, 15-2 advising 1/2 mile driveway, Car 15 still requests lay 4 inch in
1720 - Fire ground 4 established
1722 - 15-22 O/S
1726 - All Mutual aid filled
1728 - Kerhonkson and Napanock with additional tankers to the scene, request a full second alarm, one ambulance to the scene
1733 - Cause and Origin to the scene
1734 - Car 42 responding
1734 - 56-S responding
1735 - Co 15 establishing a draft

Agreed... it is perfectly okay to ask questions to seek clarity on times, tactics, situations, etc. when done in the spirit of learning something. It is quite another to ask questions in an interrogatory tone that, when you read it, you just know that there is an agenda and an insinuation behind the questioning. We are all here to share and learn, not to raise the possibility that someone did something wrong or didn't get out of the barn fast enough. I'll refer to Post4031's thread of a few weeks ago, where he commented on about the same thing...... there are a few members who get their jollies out of picking on and picking apart whatever anyone else does. Come to think of it, not much different than the local firehouse.......

I'm sorry you feel this way but glad most others do not.
Yes, there is an agenda behind the question. I will again beat the drum here...I, and many others, believe that there is a serious problem in most parts of Westchester County with inadequate Fire and EMS coverage. For the most part, the public has no idea of this problem. I believe the problems can be solved through consolidation and regionalization. However, to solve this problem, we first need to educate both the public and many members of the Fire Service here in Westchester that there is in fact a serious problem. Questioning response times and manpower levels is part of this process. It is not personal, it is business. I do not "get my jollies from this", nor do I feel that I or my own department is perfect. I do realize that there are many (not most) who read this forum who are just chomping at the bit for an opportunity to criticize me personally or my department. Eventually you will have your opportunity I am sure. We all make mistakes and we all have areas in which we can improve.
SO, go for it when your opportunity arises...I won't cry, I promise...

Chief- A few points. I'm not here to knock you or the Yonkers FD. I didn't even know that that was your affiliation until today. I don't know any active members of YFD, nor do I know anyone affiliated with either Somers or Croton Falls. You have a right to your opinions and beliefs, and a right to express them just like I do. No problem there. You can even have an "agenda" or a point of view that you want to reinforce when the opportunity presents itself, that too is okay with me.
Where we differ is that I would advance my "agenda" or point of view when I have the facts to support my case. What I have seen on a couple of occasions, most recently with the Croton Falls IA, is that you are jumping to conclusions which you believe support your case without a complete set of facts. Any IA, written by anyone on here, is subject to the faults (memory, hearing, ability to type fast enough, etc) of the writer. In the course of a long list of radio transmissions, the writer in this case did not note the specific dispatch of the Somers Ladder. When, further down in the alert, there is a notation that the truck was responding shortly, or whatever the notation, you automatically began looking for the reason why they took so long to get out, and immediately began a line of questions that clearly indicated that you thought that. You obviously are very passionate on this issue, all I'm saying is give it a rest once in a while and don't assume that in every IA, there is a delayed response or inadequate manpower situation based on a snippet of a radio transmission taken out of context.
Perhaps you are right on target with your thoughts on regionalization in Westchester. I don't know, I don't live there, and I don't know all of the details of the issue. Be happy to read anything you have in the way of a position paper or other documentation, if you care to provide me with a notation of some online source that I can go to to read it. As to my opportunity to criticize the YFD, I am not qualified. I'm sure that the members of YFD do a great job. Your promise not to cry when my opportunity arises to criticize your department is lost on me, it'll never happen. Stay safe.....

A well worded reply. Good news is that someone had the correct information to explain what was going on. Bad news is that an explanation was necessary. We are all here to learn and share, not to be second guessed by people with no understanding of local geography, dispatch protocols, or equipment. It's getting a little old to read time and again how certain members disect every IA for precise times and raise questions that insinuate that things were not done correctly.

I noticed in reading the IA on the Croton Falls Fire that it was dispatched at 1605 and at 1617 the Somers Ladder was "waiting for more manpower"...(12 minutes after the initial response) What does this mean exactly? Is this ladder part of the initial assignment? Were there other ladder companies responding? How long after 1617 did this ladder company actually respond and with how many personnel? This was on a weekend afternoon. I'm surprised that there would be any problem with manpower. Is there an issue with having an adequate number of responders in this area too?

Date: 1/11/10
Time: 11:50 hours
Location: 84-70 129 st x Kew Gardens Rd
Frequency: FDNY Queens
Weather Conditions: Cold
Description Of Incident: heavy fire on arrival on the 2nd floor of a 6 story MD extended to the 3rd, 4th, and 5th floors.
Reporters/Writer: ryang
Additional Info:
Kew Gardens, Queens, NY, 1/11/10
Address: 84-70 129 st between Kew Gardens Rd and Metropolitan Ave
11:50 hours
Phone Box 9689 - Report of fire on the 2nd floor and heavy smoke on the 3rd floor
Engs. 298, 315, 294
L151, TL127
Battalion 51
10-75-9689 - 11:51 hours
Squad 270 (1st due) is 10-84, transmitting a 10-75 for fire on the 2nd floor
L143 (1st due) available around the corner, assigned in.
L126 (FAST Truck)
Battalion 39
Rescue 4
Division 13
7-5-9689 - 11:53 hours
Battalion 51: We have fire on the 2nd floor of a 6 story MD, we're going to use All-Hands on arrival!
Squad 288
RAC4
11:53 hours
Receiving report of a female trapped on the 5th floor with a baby, unknown apartment.
11:54 hours
BC51: We have heavy fire on the 2nd floor, exposure 1, it's a 100x100 6 story MD.
2-2-9689 - 11:54 hours
Division 13: Transmit 2nd alarm, we have heavy fire on the 2nd floor auto-exposed to the floor above!
Engs. 305, 308, 285, 293
E324 w/ Satellite 4
TL142
Rescue, Safety Battalions
Battalion 46 (Safety Officer)
Battalion 50 (Resource Unit Leader)
Tactical Support 2
FieldCom, Command Tactical Unit
11:56 hours
DC13: 2 additional trucks above the 2nd alarm!
TL138, TL152 S/C
12:00 hours
L126: Advise the incoming units not to come into 129 st from Kew Gardens Rd.
12:01 hours
DC13: 3 lines stretched, 2 in operation, we have fire knocked down on the 3rd floor, extended to the 4th floor. Heavy fire on the 4th floor.
3-3-9689 - 12:03 hours
Engs 275, 299, 302, 301
Battalion 43 (Air-Recon Chief)
Battalion 52 (Staging Manager)
Mask Service Unit
Car 9 (DAC John Sudnik, Queens Borough Commander)
12:06 hours
DC13: Box 9689, 4 lines stretched and operating, main fire on the 2nd floor, the fire floor, extinguished, making progress on the 3rd floor, possible extension to the 4th floor.
12:08 hours
The staging area is Hillside Ave and Metropolitan Ave
12:09 hours
Thawing Unit 293 is responding
12:11 hours
FieldCom: Have Battalion 52 switch to Handy-Talkie channel 5 when they arrive.
4-4-9689 - 12:13 hours
DC13: Box 9689 transmit a 4th alarm, we now have heavy fire on the 4th floor, extension to the 5th floor!
Engs. 319, 236, 286, 225
E262 w/ IMT Unit
TL135, L129
Battalion 33 (Planning Sections Chief)
12:18 hours
DC13: Box 9689, primary searches on the fire floor, which is the 2nd floor, and the floor above are negative. Primary searches on the 4th and 5th floors are in progress. Main body of fire is darkening down on the 4th floor, making progress, main body darkening down on the 5th floor, fire's Doubtful.
12:20 hours
Car 12B (OSHA) is responding
12:20 hours
Receiving apartment 2F, trapped occupants asking for instructions, not in immediate danger.
List of apartments received so far: 2K, 2A, 2B, 2C, 1E, 2F
12:21 hours
Department Mechanic is responding
Car 4 (Chief of Fire Operations Robert Sweeney) is responding
Fire Building Height/Size-up:
6 story non-fireproof OMD 200x100
Exposures are:
1 - street
2 - PD separated by an alley
3 - rear yard
4 - PD separated by an alley
12:25 hours - Duration 38 minutes
FC: Progress report for the 4th alarm, the address 84-70 129 st, fire in a 6 story 200x100 MD. Division 13 reports primary search negative on the B in the 2, 3, 4, 5 floors. Doubtful.
12:35 hours - Duration 46 minutes
12:56 hours - Duration 1 hour 7 minutes
FC: Progress report #6 for the 4th alarm Box 9689, the address 84-70 129 st between Kew Gardens Rd and Metropolitan Ave, building is a 6-brick 200x100 MD, fire on the 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th floors. Car 9, DAC Sudnik, Queens Borough Commander, reports: secondary search complete and negative on the 2, 3, 4, 5, and 6 floors. 1 10-45 code 4 (Green Tag, Minor). 10-41 code 1. Request Buildings Department to check stability. Probably Will Hold.
12:58 hours - Duration 1 hour 9 minutes
FC with a mixer-off message
13:04 hours - Duration 1 hour 15 minutes
FC: Car 4, Chief of Operations Sweeney, will be in command.
13:05 hours
Car 1H (Commissioner's Liaison) is responding
13:06 hours - Duration 1 hour 17 minutes
FC: Final progress report for the 4th alarm Box 9689, the address 84-70 129 st between Kew Gardens Rd and Metropolitan Ave, Car 4, Chief of Operations Sweeney, reports: secondary search throughout negative, Under Control.
Relocations:
Engines: 83/262, 217/293, 313/298, 50/299, 263/301, 91/263, 94/315, 206/319
Ladders: 176/126, 124/127, 50/138, 140/143, 117/140, 42/117, 3/151
Battalions: 37/50, 26/52