Fdny25

Great topic Chief==I think that most Fire Departments should take a real close look at them selves in a mirror and see what they see. Are they stuck in the 70's or 60's or worse yet 50's. We see time after time departments buying bigger--bigger--biggest--bester things. We all realize that especially in the volunteer service there is a erosion of manpower. In the career side its do more with less-- basically it's the same thing. How do we get everyone into the 21st century is the question.. better recruitment? incentives? training? community involvement?? getting home to our loved ones is a priority --- as I say in my classes---you didn't start the fire--- you joined to help your community. you cant do that if your not trained properly. 5 points I strive for -- get there--get there safely--do your job--do your job the best you can--get home to your loved ones.
I guess the answer might be in full disclosure. I once knew a Fire Chief that every meeting he went to stated that he did not have sufficient manpower.
So Chief there is not easy answer to your question just more questions

Do we owe the public the truth about their fire depts. ability to handle a structure fire? What I mean by that is we ask the taxpayers for money to run the dept, yet in truth, on any given day at any given time, it takes more than THAT dept to control the situation. Forget career / volunteer bs, this is across the board. This is not about the big one or needing a tanker/tender shuttle operation, this is the room and contents, fire that your patch on your sleeve proudly says WE CAN HANDLE.
Mutual aid to cover the empty fire houses, no problem.
Why is it the neighboring taxpayers responsibility to send its tax dollar funded dept to assist with your BASIC fire.
something is wrong here, and the longer we put our heads in the sand......................

Yes we do, but more so we owe it to ourselves to be honest with ourselves. What I mean by this is that we are the greatest obstacle to solving the problem of inadequate responses and until we can admit that truth there is little hope of progressing. Like an alcoholic the first step in fixing the problem is admitting we have one and having the willingness to do what it takes to fix it. Most can readily admit to the first part, that there's a problem, but very few can honestly say they are truly willing to do what it takes to fix it. Oh sure, many will loudly jump on the consolidation bandwagon and proclaim that this is "the answer", until that answer involves them making concessions to serve the greater good. "We must consolidate, but my agenda is more important that yours", "we must consolidate, but don't change my contract", "we must consolidate, but don't touch my apparatus", "we must consolidate but don't take my rank" and so on and so on. Sadly, egos, agendas and a warped sense of self importance makes it virtually impossible to progress out of the tradition of putting ourselves first. And make no mistake we have always put ourselves first, otherwise we wouldn't be having this discussion. The public will only get what they deserve when we put their needs above our wants....and that my friends is a tall order indeed.

About time someone pulled the curtain back to expose the charade. How many other departments in the county can't meet the NFPA or OSHA standards for minimum staffing yet think they're OK?

They're still not going to be sending enough if they hire four whole guys. Wow.
Just kicking the can down the road. Sooner our later our luck is going to run out and there's going to be a 100% preventable tragedy. We will all call the unwitting victims "hero" and don our spiffy parade uniforms to salute their hearse but we won't fight against the problem that's making them vulnerable now. It's a travesty.

They quit! Why?
1. Last time I checked this was a team sport! The success of an operation cannot and should not be determined by the actions of the few (or the individual). When a member constantly trains and studies, but is surrounded by novices who can't perform simple functions, he (or she) will be discouraged. It is hard to be proud of or confident in your organization or your team when you know exactly what needs to be done on the fireground and are prepared for every emergency, but everyone else doesn't. It is discouraging to consistently do your job exactly by the book and have every operation fail because no one else read it.
2. It is dangerous! To be a knowledgeable and aggressive firefighter is a good thing. However, when an individual is experience and talented but surrounded by novices, who can you count on to come to your aid when the s*** hits the fan. Instead, it hampers your ability because you have to be overcautious since no one else can keep up (or get scared) and no one can get you out should you get into trouble (it happens to the best of us!).
3. Frustration! It gets tiring to know exactly what needs to be done to resolve and incident but have other people consistently screw things up! You get tired of having ceilings pulled down on you; you get tired of waiting for water because your CPO can figure out how to pull the right levers; you get tired of having rooms flash when you are in them because your outside vent team doesn't know how to properly vent horizontally and introduces too much oxygen to the fire; you get tired of having no back-up man on the knob because the guy behind you couldn't find his gloves; you get tired of telling your crew to pull a 2 1/2 with a smooth bore and getting an 1 3/4 with a fog tip! After a while you just realize that they don't care and that you don't want to be a part of them anymore.
4. Ostracization! When you are part of the small minority that actually cares about training, firematics, and performace, but 46 of the other 50 members of the organization only care about parades and pancake dinners, then you become the a******! You are the guy who is always critiquing everyone; you are the guy who is always telling people how to improve; and you are the guy who takes things too seriously (after all "We are just volunteers!"). So even though all you want to do is teach others and improve the effectiveness of your department, you are always the a****** who is ruining the fork and knifers' good time and telling them that they are doing it wrong! So instead of moving up because you are the most well-trained, you are voted out and replaced with the head clown in the popularity contest that they call an election because everyone loves him!
Thats why they quit...