ONEEYEDMIC

I would say that it was a cluster ****.

In my Town, all Patrol cars have AED'S and 02 duffle bag with minimal supplies. A patrol car is sent on any AIDED, FIRE Call, etc... It is not a requirement to be and EMT and the training that you get in the Police academy is very short. We do have quite a number of Officers that were and still are involved in EMS prior to becoming PO"S. That is a good thing especially for when the Medic gets on scene. More hands to help out.

GAW, I believe that I said something in a previous post about FD response times. If my house was on fire, I would want a quick response and if somebody in my family was sick, I would want a quick response. So I guess what I am trying to say, is RESPOND QUICKER FOR EVERYONE.

Our PD strikes again!

Last night (4/4 around 0100) we got dispatched for an EMS call on the south end of the Village for a party with difficulty breathing.

I heard the call, got dressed and made my way across town.  As I was driving towards the scene, I realized that I hadn't heard the Ambulance nor a second dispatch.

It took me 8 minutes to get to the firehouse, and I was suprised to see the rig still in quarters and nobody there.  At first I thought that the call was cancelled, but I was wrong.  I radioed the PD desk and asked, "Any personnel on scene?"  The reply was no, so I asked, "Can you tone out again since it hasn't been done yet?"  The desk did so, now 11 minutes into the call.  While sitting in the rig awaiting a crew, I heard the on scene Patrol car ask "have you heard from the Ambulance yet?" to which the Sgt. replied, "No."  At this point the Medic, rightfully, requested Mutual Aid.

Another 2 minutes later, my Asst. Chief called and said to respond, as he would fill out the crew.  Afterwards, the Chief told me that he thought the call was covered, because it was "a long time" before a 2nd dispatch was made.

First, I blame our own members for not responding in a timely fashion.  But, I further blame the PD for not paying attention to us.  Even after 6 minutes when we had nobody, assuming the Desk Sgt. was paying attention, they could have had Mutual Aid coming sooner.  This call further enhances my dismay with our current system.  Anyone else feel like I do?

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Sounds like something your CHief and the CHief of PD has to discuss.

While I do agree that there should be a duty crew, I think you are wrong about the 20 seconds.  Yes it could make a difference, and do you really think it just takes 20 seconds?  CarXXX come in....CarXXX come in....CarXXX take in an aided at XXX....CarXXX 10-4.  Now they turn to the VAC radio, turn up the volume, check the address again, proceed to hit the tones...and the process begins.  Now unless CarXXX is a EMT or medic with supplies, you just wasted a lot of time for nothing.

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I may have been a little crazy when I said 20 sec. SO here is the scenario. Call comes in for an AIDED. While I am on the phone, I am dispatching the Patrol unit and the MEDIC. When I hang up the phone, I dispatch the Necessary AMB. If you read back to old posts, We dispatch 1 AMB Corp. For the other 2 we either have to call another PD or 60 Control. I can't do that while taking Info on the original call. Now most of the time, we have a Civilian Dispatcher and either one of us takes one of the other duties. So I guess where we are, THE AMB is dispatched at the same time. Now, if I am alone, I hang up the phone and call the next appropriate agency that needs to dispatch the AMB. What they do with that, is on them. It is out of my hands. On some occasions, we talk to the VAC that was disp by the PD. Not when 60 Control dispatches them though. So there is going to be a lag, but because of me.

I can't say this for all of our PD dispatchers, but it is very close to that scenario.

Are you losing it man?  I NEVER SAID that it is the fault of the PD that the Ambulance does not get out.  That is a membership issue. I DID say that the PD is responsible for us taking longer to get on scene because on many occassions they DELAY DISPATCH in one way or another.

Nor, did I say that we do not want the PD there.  I just said that it would be nice to dispatch those that have to drive across town to pick up the rig BEFORE sending the Patrol Car.

Start my own Company, if was was prosperous then that would be fine.  But the fact remains that many (not all) PD's answering the 911 calls in westchester are not trained to handle the medical emergencies they receive.  Do you disagree OneEye?  I doubt it.

And I, too, see many many EMS people more concerned about thier clipboards then patient care.  That isn't the point of my rant.  And I DO HOPE my PD reads this, and every complaint that I and other members have made here and on "official" basis in the past few years, because they need to know that they are jeopardizing the well-being and health of our community.

GOOD JOB!

The subject was response times - and I voiced my opinion, which, apparently, hit a nerve of yours.  If you can tell me that I am wrong and that SOME POLICE DEPARTMENTS are awful at dispatching, then I would love to hear how I am wrong.

I don't know you, or what PD you work for.  But I am referring to the ones I have PERSONAL experience with.

Oh, and if you lose respect for me that's a shame, I am sure I will lose sleep over it tonight.

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Do you really think that the 20 seconds it takes a dispatcher to dispatch a Patrol car to the scene makes a difference? The bottom line is, VOLUNTEERS should be in the building when the call comes in. NOT Coming from across town to get to the building. That is the problem with RESPONSE TIMES.

Maybe where you are they delay dispatching you. I don't know the total, but I am sure most PD's that field 911 calls aren't medically trained. Where does it say that they have to medically trained? Now, if I am answering the phones, I will help in any way that I can. I am not EMD certified, but I have been a MEDIC for a LONG TIME. I like to think that I can handle anything on the phone or in person. It also depends on who is calling. Just trying to calm someone down on the phone can be the hardest thing.

Of course some PD's are bad at dispatching, just like SOME VAC's and VFD's suck at helping people and putting out fires.

I'm not going to lose sleep over this either. It just sounds like you need to move where you are going to get better EMS/FIRE response.

First off, I don't blame the PD for the ambulance not getting out, I am blaming them for many of the response time delays we have.

Additionally, what is the point of sending a Patrol Car if the Officer isn't trained?!  Why not dispatch a garbage truck?  Putting oxygen on someone isn't a solution, nor is standing there and getting thier pedigree info.  Granted, if it is a cardiac arrest they can defib 'em - but more often then anything that's not the case.

If your crews need time to get to the building, why not dispatch them FIRST?  Holy $hit, there's a concept.  Even better, if you dispatch on a console that can transmit on multiple frequencies, why not joint dispatch everyone?!

I agree, too, that Cops don't take thier jobs so they can dispatch an FD or EMS.  But if it is part of thier job then just like all other responsibilities they have, they should be done properly 100% of the time.  I have nothing but respect for Law Enforcement - I just don't think that someone without thorough training should be taking 911 calls for help.

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That's right, it is the PD's fault that VOLUNTEERS can't get out. Ok so don't send a patrol car. There is going to be that time when you get there and the PT is going to be a combative INTOX, OD or Diabetic. Then, when you are getting you behind kicked, you are going to wish that you had a PO there.

O2 is not the solution, but it does help some aided people. I got an IDEA why don't you start your own DISPATCH COMPANY and you can handle everything.

You say you have respect for LE, but you just knocked LE for not being trained and being there just to get pedigree. Well, I have been on many ambulance calls when the AMB gets there all they care about is their CLIPBOARD.

You know what, I am not even going to entertain your IGNORANT rants. I hope that members or the PD where you live read this. I for sure just lost all respect for you and I don't even know you. GOOD JOB.

If dispatching EMS is part of your police duties then do it well and do it with pride especially if you knew that it was part of the job when you signed on.  However, I dont believe that dispatching EMS should be the responsibility of a PD.  I'm all about a centralized (non PD) dispatch. 

I bolded the above sentence because I really dont think many police officers choose their line of work so they can dispatch vollie EMS.  Please dont take this the wrong way.  We all have callings.  EMS is EMS PD is PD.  Having the PD dispatch EMS maybe the most cost effective way to operate in certain areas but it seems to cause alot of hard feelings between PD an EMS around here. 

10570 posted this earlier and I'm sure he or she is correct.  Politics and power. 

"Maybe the officers of said dept don't want to be bothered with dipsatching, but those that make the decisions will fight tooth and nail to hold onto that control."

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I couldn't have said it any better. Sometimes it is crazy with PD stuff and then an AIDED case or MVA comes in. Now you have a MEDIC GOING TO THE SCENE and trying to DISPATCH a VAC. It gets crazy. Don't get me wrong, I came from EMS so I try and do the right thing all the time when I am dispatching. It does get annoying, but that is in my job description so I am going to do it.

I think what you might have misunderstood me. What I was trying to say, is that when I first joined a VAC a long time ago, I was young and didn't know anything. When I got my first pager, the CAPT of the CORP told me how it worked. He said the tones would go off and the DUTY CREW CHIEF would then call the PD to get the location and nature. The PD dispatched the AMB and did not put that over the pager for the simple reason that they did not want "OFF-DUTY" personell showing up on calls in their personal vehicles.

As for me, I think that ALL EMS in WESTCHESTER COUNTY should be handled by 1 Central Station. I guess except for the City's. It works with the FD's, how come it can't work with the VAC'S?

Yes blame the PD's. I can tell you right now that most PD's in this area or anywhere else for that matter would just assume have nothing to do with dispatching vollie EMS units. Perhaps you can attempt to initiate your own EMS reporting system for your area so you have only yourselves to blame when things don't go as planned.

Maybe the officers of said dept don't want to be bothered with dipsatching, but those that make the decisions will fight tooth and nail to hold onto that control.

I can't see it being the PD's problem. Other things do and are going on when an EMS call comes in. I know for one, that the first thing that I do is dispatch the Patrol unit and MEDIC at the same time. Next is the either setting off the tones, calling another PD, or Calling 60 Control. I would rather have a Patrol unit or Medic on scene first, then to be waiting for the AMB.

We don't even give the location or nature over the pager. When they call in, we give that information. We have found that if they know what or where the call is, they pick and choose whether or not to go.

There is no non-emergency BLS call. When a call comes in and the person states that they need and AMB, we ask for the nature. How am I supposed to know if the person is telling the truth or not. That is why we send a Patrol Unit and the Medic. The Medic can determine if it is BLS and turn over care only when AN AMB gets on scene.

31 Min is a long time. Was there a Medic on scene waiting? This his how our Town works which has 3 VAC'S. Most of the Aided calls come to our PD first. Sometimes there is a transfer from WCDPS, NYSP, 60 Control, ETC.... I will say Town A although these are not really towns. Anyway, Town A gets dispatched from the PD. After aprrox 1-2 min if nobody has called in, they get dispatched again. If nothing after 1-2 min the appropriate next VAC gets called. To do this, we might have to call 60 Control who dispatches 1 other VAC or another PD, that dispatches the other VAC. The problem with that is, we don't know how long it is going to take to get the Mutual Aid amb out unless 60 Control or the other PD calls us back and lets us know. We log in the blotter that VAC was DISP/UNAVAIL. That way when checking numbers, the higher ups can see what went wrong. On certain instances, I have documented how long it took any AMB to get on scene and put it in the blotter. It doesn't seem to matter because nothing happens to the VAC'S if they don't show up.

So the on the original call, you could be looking at at least 4 min before anyone gets to the building. Then you have to wait for other members and so on. Usually, the Medic will be enroute and already on scene and sometimes calling for the AMB. That is unacceptable.

I don't know what the answer is, but I do know that it usually takes for someone in POWER to be on the end of waiting for the POLICE, FIRE, AMB before anything is done about it.

The Best MEDICS around. LOL. I am InPartial.

I know how frustrating it is also being a MEDIC. I hated waiting around, but at least the level of care is there. Although, not bring up war stories, As a PO, I was on an SVT that was quickly going to VTACH. I was asking for the AMB and they were trying to get Mutual AId amb. My SGT suggested that we go in the POLICE CAR. Now, if I thought that the PT was stable enough to get to the POLICE carr, I would have done that. She was not. It took like 24min to finally get an ambulance on scene. Thank God that the MEDIC, with my help stabalized the PT. That is uncalled for.

If that was the TOWN SUPERVISOR or a BOARD MEMBER or one of their family members, the system would have changed that day. I don't think they look at the numbers that closely.

Does a BLS fly car stop the Clock? Not much good if you can't TXP the Patient. Same as if a Medic is there first.

There has been times when there has been a MUTUAL AID Medic in an AMB(with and EMT partner), show up at scene, want to TXP to the ER and has been denied so the VOLLIES could get there and TXP. I think that is neglect, but numbers are numbers.

Hoss, I couldn't have said it any better. I posted right after Nursemedic and had something to say about that. I just kept my mouth shut. I think that these posts are needed and informative to those of us around the County.

The bottom line is POLITICS. That is it. If the members any VAC went and told a MAYOR, TOWN SUPERVISOR, ETC... that they would not be backed if they went agains their wishes for a different system do you think that the Heads of City's, Town's, Villages, would still try and do it? Hell NO.

Do the Residents of New Castle even know that they get a PARAMEDIC? I don't know that if in MT PLEASANT they even know that. The system has been in place for at least 5 years. Since I can't afford a house in the Town I work in, I don't know if that is on a TAX BILL.

I have been out of the loop for some time but I heard that WPHMC, PHELPS, NWHMC and LAWRENCE Hosp are run by the same CORPORATION or something. I also heard that a member of CVAC is a High up in one of these hospitals and may be in strong opposition of New Castle going out on their own EMS wise. This is all speculation though. I could see those politics now.

Town Supervisor wants new system, Hosp Rep tells Vac members not to reelect Supervisor if Town goes out on own. So, if you are for WEMS staying in New Castle, you can run for Supervisor. LOL

I still think that a 20 min response time of call to time on scene is CRAZY. It annoys me to know end.

What would happen if there was a 20 min response time to a House Fire? I would think that the house would burn down.

Who am I kidding, there wouldn't be a 20 min response time to a fire because everyone would come out of the woodwork.

My point is, I don't think that everyone takes EMS as serious as they should.

Now, the issue has moved on to response times. But, earlier, various people (Skooter92, ONEEYEDMIC, etc.) were talking about CVAC not being able to muster a crew and I wanted to correct them.

I believe that I was talking about all VAC's in general about who can get a crew out. I don't know that much about CVAC to have made that statement. I just put them all into the same mix. Sorry about that.

I don't think that members should show up to a scene in their own Veh. That is just me. If they can get to the scene, they can get to the VAC. Unless of course it would be totally out of the way to make to the VAC. But, even if they got to the scene in their car, do they have equipment to take care of the PT(S)?

When I was a Vollie and I was on duty, I would hang out at the building. If I needed to run errands, it would be only to where I know that I could get to the building fast. I also lived fairly close to the building so that wasn't an issue either. I guess I was younger and really wanted to get the scene as fast as I could. Anyone that has hung out in a building and the tones go off know that it seems like an Eternity for the other members to get there.

Like I posted before, there is/was a VAC in this County, a wealthy community where some of the members needed to be picked up at their houses if they were on duty. That drove me crazy, especially when you don't know the area that well.

So if the issue is response time, how long do you think it takes leaving NWHMC to Greely Ave and Rt 120 in rush hour traffic? I would say longer than 8 minutes for the Medic. That is given if the Medic is sitting in the truck. Now if the Fly car was stationed at the CVAC or even Near the PD, it would take about 4 min tops. It all depends on if the Medic was on a call.

I think it makes more sense for The Town of New Castle to go out on their own. The back breaker will be when some high profiled resident needs the Medic/Amb. These people are a pain in the a**. Believe me. They think they you should be at their beck and call.

I don't know response times, but I am going to look into how many times an Amb was dispatched in my Town and how Many times it went to Mutual Aid because a crew couldn't get out. We now have a function in the PD blotters that states DISP/UNAVAILABLE. If an AMB is out of service though, that is a different story. I will only look from 01/06 just to see. I am now curious.

Somehow, I didn't realize that this post went to another page. It doesn't affect me or not with what New Castle is doing. It looks like they settled for another year which gives them that much time to look for an alternate service. At least, that is what I got out of the article.

Now, GAW6, it took me a minute then I put it together. You know my feelings on ALS and BLS and VOLLIES and PAID. Since I became a Medic, I was for ALS. That only makes sense. I did the Vollie thing like I stated in a past post and That is how I got started. Then I didn't see the point for it.

When Metro/Transcare first started in Mt Pleasant, I was still a Medic and Not a Cop. I was the first Medic to do an ALS call in the Town when the fly car was put in place. For that matter, I was also the First Medic to do an ALS call when Metro/Trans Care covered Northern West. Guess I was at the right place at the right time. I agreed from the start when Mt Pleasant was talking about moving to a paid MEDIC that they should have gone out on their own. Just like Eastchester, Scarsdale, PortChester, MEMS, ETC...(I can't remember them all).

If Mt Pleasant Medic 2 is on a call on the ground to WMC, Medic 1 does cover some of their calls. It does not happen all the time, but it happens. Do I agree with it, HELL NO. I think that if the Tax Payers of Mt Pleasant are paying for a service, they should get it. That is the problem with the deal they made with Metro/Transcare. Now if Medic 1 goes to Ruth Taylor, we have to call a Mutual Aid Medic from GPD, who is usually all tied up, Ossining, or maybe even WEMS. That also means that a Volunteer VAC gets dispatched to Ruth Taylor. I don't know how many times I have heard that get dispatched to another Mutual Aid because they can't get out. It is really pathetic that the Town of Mt Pleasnant can't get an ambulance out sometimes. That is the problem with Vollies. Maybe it is only durning the day and I still give credit to all of you that get up in the middle of the night for FREE.

I never knocked Chapp VAC and their ability to get out. That is pretty inpressive if what that person said was true about the Crews. I didn't know that. What are they doing right and how can other VAC's copy their system.

Now, when I get to aided first usually as a PO, my hands are tied. That does not mean that I can't do anything, it just means my resources aren't there until the MEDIC gets there. When the MEDIC gets there, it is like having double the Care until the AMB gets there because even though my role is as a PO, I help the MEDIC with the IV, EKG, GLUCOMETER, whatever it takes. That way, when the AMB gets there you can load and go.

This is not a MT PLEASANT post and I may be wrong with some of my points. I guess my point is, Each town should have their own FLY CAR if they Can afford it.

That's Politics. I don't know who Dick is and I don't know where he works or anything like that. When you are dealing with a contract, that is when the politics come out. I don't know the answers to the WHAT IF. I can tell you that if both our medics are out, we will get Mutual aid from what ever ALS unit is the closest to the scene. That could be the OSSINING/CROTON MEDIC, GPD MEDIC, or even A WEMS MEDIC. I think that same thing goes for an ambulance. Although that has not happened alot, it has happened and we have utilized 87B1 from the WMC CAMPUS.

I am sure that New Castle isn't trying to do this just because 1 person didn't get hired by a company. And, If Transcare did take over, you might even see a deal with the Town Supervisor of Mt Pleasant work something out if they needed a Mutal Aid Medicl. Mt Pleasant PD does cover areas in New Castle anyway so I don't see that as being a big deal. DO NOT QUOTE ME ON THAT. I made that up, but being around for awhile and seeing many contracts go to different companies, I would not put anything past anyone.

I guess that would also be better for the Residents of Northern Westchester then. 1 more fly car freed up.

It will be interesting though. I think the problem with all of this is, if a Vollie crew can't get out, people get pissed. But, if you decided to put a paid system in place, you may be paying money for services not needed. You know, some of these towns go a couple of days without calls so that would be a waste of money. Maybe just a paid EMT for these areas and making sure there is a driver on duty at all times.

I can say this, I have been put in the situation and still see it now that a only a driver can get out and the call is BLS and they try and get the MEDIC to ride it in. I have said NO many times. The Vollies tried to pull a fast one, not on me though.

Murphy's Law. You ride in a BLS call and while enroute to the ER, There is a Cardiac Arrest somehwere. Try and explain that. Especially when it will take awhile for another Medic to get on scene.

I also think that alot of the problem is that the people in charge of EMS in their towns don't understand EMS. Does the Supervisor of New Castle know about EMS and FLY Cars and all that? She knows about numbers and how much it is going to cost but how about looking at how many ALS calls they have Versus BLS calls. I know that changes year to year, but it is good to look into.

I think all your points are valid and I can tell you one thing. Although I think that Volunteers do a great service, it is getting to the point where this County is going to have to go FULL PAID SERVICE. I am not picking on Vollies because that is where I started. I soon learned that getting paid for being up at 3a was better than not. Then I saw the at the time the leve of my training. EMT-P was higher than offered where I lived. I didn't understand that and whenever I did a "VOLUNTEER" call, I would get annoyed. So I stopped.

So, we moved into the 21st Century and we now have 1 dedicated Fly car that is in the Town. From 7a-7p, we have Two ALS TRUCKS. Sometimes that other medic is in an ambulance. Since switching to this system when it started, and knowing the area, it was easy for me to get to calls. Response times were good from anywhere in Town which is approximately 40 something square miles.

I have worked all over the County and in one system, I would have to drive the AMBULANCE TO GO PICK UP MEMBERS AT THEIR HOUSES. Talk about B/S. Those of you that have been around may know who I am talking about.

In my Town now, we have entered the point where it takes forever to get an ambulance. One can't get out so you Mutual Aid that other can't get so you Mutual Aid finally you get one. That is at least 8 minutes before the last AMB gets dispatche. Then they have to respond to the building and you know the rest. At least one of the VAC's went to a PAID EMT in the morn when there is nobody on the schedule for the VAC. Maybe that is what needs to be done. There is no reason that ANYONE should have to wait more than 10 minutes for an AMBULANCE. That is given that the MEDIC is already on scene giving TX. I can't tell you how many time that I have asked for an ETA for the VAC. The aided and their there family members just look at me with this puzzled look. Is that Fair? NO.

I am on the other side now in a PD role and it has opened my EYE to a whole new situation. I GUESS I AM just frustrated.

So, If New Castle is willing to spend the extra money and have their own medic, so be it. I know that will not get the ambulance out any faster, but it will get TX to the aided quicker in most cases.

The residents of any Town that has a fly car deserve the fastest response time that they can get. I don't think that 1 of the Northern West Fly car is dedicated to New Castle is it? Say the Medic is on a call in Mt Kisco and is securing an RMA or assisting the VAC with a BLS call, and a call comes in to New Castle. That is going to take an extended period of time for the Medic to respond. That is not fair to the person that is sick or injured. I am not saying that if New Castle had their own medic that the same scenario couldn't happen, I just think that the response time would be faster.

I know the response time in the Northern part of the County before their were even 2 fly cars was insane. Thank God they have 3 now. That was the true meaning of Medic intercept. It was fun though.

I am not trying to cause trouble and thankfully I live in a Town with a dedicated Medic and 1 that is avaiable from WMC. The New Castle Supervisor makes a valid point.

Two out of Three isn't bad. I am sure that people will be there at 1700hrs. Prob setting up. Thank you for the correction.

Not sure what and person down in Fire lingo is, (in PD terms it is 10-13)but on Mon April 17, 2006 at The Thirsty Turtle in White Plains, there is a Benefit for FF Malone. I believe that it starts around 1700hrs and will go to whenever I am sure. The donation is $20 and you get two free drinks and open Buffet with that. All donation I think will be going to the family.

I know that I will be there to show support. I hope the rest of you on EMT BRAVO can make a showing.

I am pretty sure these details are correct. If they are wrong, I will let you all know. The date is right and the price is right. Time might be wrong.

That is all I was trying to say. There are other resources out there. The more the man power the less stress on everyone else. Better to have 16 divers than 8. More time for a search. It wasn't needed in this situation, but the Summer is coming and might be needed again.

I wasn't trying to make it PD vs Vollie thing either. More like an I get OT thing.

OT ='s more $$ or more time off.

Give the locations of some of these bars if you can. I love wings and love to travel to eat them. Thanks.

Wow, must be nice to have the power to lock a thread simply because you don't agree with what people are saying.

I also understand that badges are given out for Class A uniforms when in a FD. Since when at a scene you are not in a Uniform per say, that is ok.

IZZY, what are you five? Why don't you let everyone discuss the issue that you brought to the board? Everyone has an opinion whether or you like it or not.

Simply put, nobody knows the real reason for the arrest. Nobody knows if the charges were or will be dismissed. Why don't we wait and see what happens, till then, everyone should go out and get a badge, let me determine what to do with it when I find.