16fire5

Manhattan Boxes 9031 and 9032 were transmitted.

Although the rope stetch is common. Rope stretching up 14 floors is almost unheard of especially with 3 1/2" hose. I say almost unheard of because I know Philly hand stretched LDH up the building at the Meridan Plaza fire where 3 brothers died in the early 90's.

Many painful lessons will be learned from this incident but for now our attention must go to a proper tribute to the brothers and their families.

"It says that instructors at the fire academy allowed Wilson to progress despite reports that she had removed her air mask in exercises, had trouble controlling the nozzle of a hose and had experienced difficulty putting up ladders. "

The Baltimore Live fire exercise was fraught with errors but this too is a contributing factor.

Not everyone has what it takes to be a firefighter. Some people should wash out of the academy. Efforts to increase diversity or increase the number of qualified volunteers should never cause unqualified people to be pushed through the academy.

Its interesting when you hear the number of firefighters most NY Volunteer departments claim to have around here. In most cases only half of these people are interior qualified and even some of them either have no buisness going in or are unqualified.

Allowing only qualified capable and trained firefighters to respond and operate is the only way to go. You are doing yourself and them a favor.

I have to agree with the brother who mentioned the funerals. It seems as if the turnout for LODD Funerals outside of the FDNY are piss poor. I have posted on this topic on the Rant too because I was pretty ashamed of the turnout for the brother from North Hudson who died last year. And the same goes for the last vollie funeral I attended bad showing but plenty of rigs (leave em home). The turnout for the funeral leaves a lasting impression on the family they have told me first hand. To the brothers who turnout whenever you can my hats off to you.

ALS with you my first thoughts when viewing the pics was of the Lake Worth fire. At that fire in Texas 2 off duty experienced career firefighters died in their volunteer capacities. ALS I think we must remember that there are probably a lot of members on this board are not familiar with the incidents or the lessons learned due to either their level of involvement or years or experience. For me this has become very apparent to me in both my career and volunteer capacities. At work the influx of new members naturally leads to members not familiar with the past and the hard lessons learned by those that came before them. In the volunteer service there are both new members and in many cases senior members that are not in touch with the incidents around the country. I guess our job is to keep this in mind and incorporate these lessons into training daily. I have done this but I know I can do better. In this computer age there is a wealth of easily accessible info that we must harness. I for one should read more NIOSH reports. In recent training sessions I have reviewed the Houston McDonalds Fire and the Coos Bay multi firefighter fatalities. And found them excellent learning experiences for all involved.

THe ALF's were hated.

On the Squads and Haz-Tech Engines they are for storage of the Level A suits (So the unit is never without them even without the second piece). All other Haz-Mat equipment is on the second piece (stepvan), although I am pretty sure most carry their 5 Star and PID meters in the cab to be used on routine responses.

As a planning board member I constantly keep fire protection in the discussion. At times I have made requests that surpass what the fire district has asked for. As a fire department or district you should make yourself part of the process. Where I live the FD, PD, Ambulance, and School District are notified during the review and asked to comment on the project.

In addition to the planning board I recomend departments work with the Building Inspector to be notified of all new constraction with lightweight components.

Great thread. I think the fire service has be hijacked by the industry led NFPA. So called safety police are making the rigs so big in fact they become dangerous. I am not saying everything done in the name of safety is wrong enclosed cabs are good. But just wait untill the southwest gets their way and SCBA are back in compartments. Funny how the rest of the world gets by without the monster trucks we have.

The Airtrain System that links all of JFK's terminals and lots and runs above the Van Wyck Expressway to Jamica Station linking with LIRR and the Subway system is completely automated without any operator even on board. The only incident occured when ths system was being tested when ironicly a train operated in the manual mode crashed killing the operator.

FDNY does not ride metro north for free. Since one of the conductors made a spectical out of it I pay all the time. Recently I was riding down with a buddy and he was in uniform and the conductor didn't even think twice and charged him. The UFA and UFOA have tried to get this in the past. As for the subway I have seen the token clerk ask for turnout gear.

National Fire Instructor I (Now part of FLSTP)

I'm glad posters like als called this for what it is, totally blown out of proportion by those with ulterior motives.

As for the PCB's that is a more complicated subject. I must compliment the member who brought it up because that is a size up factor that must be on the minds of members responding to incidents like this. The FDNY categorizes transformers in 3 ways; PCB, PCB contaminated, and non-PCB.

PCB 500 or more PPM PCB's

PCB contaminated any amount of PCB's between 1 and 499 PPM

Non PCB 0 PPM PCB's

It must be noted Con Ed uses a different scale

PCB 500 or more PPM PCB's

PCB contaminated any amount of PCB's between 50 and 499 PPM

Non PCB 0-49 PPM PCB's

Many PCB contaminated transformers still exist because the oil has been changed over in these transformers multiple times lowering the concentration each time.

I would also note that PCB transformers can be found in areas besides electric substations like old metro north M2 cars. The best way to be prepared for these responses is to have these facilities preplanned.

I guess I'm in the real minority since I turned down the mobile radio, and siren since I'm unwilling to drill any holes in my personal vehicle.

A top shelf group. Always there when you need them. They even had the setup at the Fresh Kills and stayed all the way till the end at the WTC. And yes they make it out to the multiples in the city.

Come on dude there's a difference between what's legal and what's right and this may have been legal but it definitely wasn't right. Hats off to my brothers for a professional job under the toughest circumstances. I was truly impressed by the restraint and compassion of the cops I definitely don't give you guys enough credit where it's due.

They make a lot of tankers I believe Brewster has one and wouldn't be suprised if there is a 4 Guys tanker in Westchester.

a couple thoughts here

In a real old turn of the century type MD there will probably be interior wooden stairs to the basement. This will be a difficult fire and the first line should protect the interior statirs while a second line enters and extinguishes from the exterior entrance if there is one.

In all MD's since the early 1900s basement is usually of fireproof class 1 const. which makes things a lot easier for you. If there is an interior stair it will be enclosed and seperate from the normal stairway. Usually you can get in from the outside.

The concrete floors question by partyrock is a good one. In 1966 12 FDNY members were killed when a basement fire caused a collapse into the basement of an old law tenement. The concrete terazzo floor was partially blamed for both hiding the fire and overloading the floor.

As for getting down the stairs with the line if your going to go that way, the best technique may be going down the stairs rapidly and having the line handed down to you. It may sound wierd but it works. The top of the stairs is the worst place it's like holding your head over the chimmney. Getting down the stairs as rapidly as possible is less punishing but if you make the commitment to go down you better be sure your going to put the fire out.

Couple of things here

#1 if you are using 2" hose your sooth bore should be 1" by using a 15/16 you are limmiting yourself to 180gpm and might as well use 1 3/4" hose. The 1" tip on the 2" hose will give you i believe around 210gpm which is a damm good flow.

Tactics at these fires

The bag: in the city we use the numonic CAP SONG to remember what should be in the bag: Chocks, addaptors (FDNY to pipe & NH), pipe wrench, Spanners, outlet wheel, nozzle, and inline pressure gauge. For 3 legnths of 2 1/2" the control man will supply 70psi at the outlet with water flowing and 80psi for 4 legnths. Another good thing I think should be in there is an elbow which is helpful especially if the outlet is in a cabinet in the hallway.

I'm a smooth bore advocate myself but I entitle everyone to their own opinion. The thing you will find out in these fires is that over 95% of the time the fires are relativly easy to put out. But the one thing that can really screw things up is the wind. Wind driven fires are nearly impossible to beat even with 2 2 1/2's. Most of these fires will put themselves out after the wind driven fire consumes everything and dies down.

Bring the TIC this is one place where it really shines. If someone left an apt door open and the hall is charged the camera will help you quickly find the fire. Since the buildings are usually concrete there is a lot of heat and its hard without the camera to discern where it is comming from. Also if you are venturing out of the stairway before the line strongly consider the search rope even if conditions seem ok. If the windows fail conditions will deteriorate immediatly and your ability to follow the rope back to the stairway may save your life.

Always hook up below the fire. Don't vent windows until the fire is out. That's all I have for now.

You need residency. I got a 100 in Dutchess in 1995 and was #5 on the list but didn't have residency and never even recieved a canvas letter during the legnth of the list. To echo the previous posters establish residency where you want to work.

In most parts of NY 16-17 years olds taking FF1 and more. This is the case here in Orange County where the county got an opinion from the state before allowing it. As far as minor goes I would be alot more weary legally of letting the 16 year olds perform dangerous functions than a 17 year old. Reasoning is allowing a 16 year old to perfom some of the dangerous functions on a fireground is technically by NYS law endangering the welfare of a minor because they are under the age of 17. Hope this helps. I'd like to know about that OSHA standard so I can look into that. The above advice was recieved from council that specializes in Fire and EMS law in NYS and is an officer in a central NY combination department.

It's no fake I have seen this on the cross bronx. I believe you can see it heading east around Jerome Ave.