helicopper

Slayer61, thanks for the response! This is exactly what I was looking for. An interesting point is the notwithstanding any other contrary provisions of law... Does the State Police or local police have any empowerment at an emergency scene? I've never seen legislation that placed the resources of one discipline under the operational control of another discipline leading me to suspect that there is language for the police elsewhere in the law or some other means to resolve that issue.

Thanks, Barry! A couple of "what if's" (and yes, I know I'm derailing my own thread)... What if the Fire Chief or ranking FD officer is not qualified per 1910.120? How will you resolve the issue of who's in charge question if there is a warrant execution at a clandestine drug lab in the City of New Rochelle? Mind you, I'm aware that you don't permit any such establishments within the city - this is purely hypothetical! Finally, who's gonna be in charge in New Rochelle during a coastal storm (and no you can't take the day off!)?

OK, now to ask the important question... Is a non-qualified "crew member" (not CFR/EMT and not pursuing it either) worth the expense to the agency? Uniforms, insurance, training, equipment, vaccinations, etc. are not cheap! If the person has no intention of becoming a driver (and I question the usefulness of just drivers, too) or an EMT they are frankly a drain on the agency - they do not contribute to the minimum staffing necessary so the ambulance can respond with or without them. Is it worth carrying these members on the roster? Wouldn't it be more cost-effective to recruit people who are or are willing to become EMTs?

So immobilization wasn't an issue, was it? The point about protocols being out of date is very true. Our field protocols seldom keep up with research or in-hospital treatment practices. There should be a balance for pre-hospital personnel to make board/no board decisions based upon an assessment of the incident, vehicle, and patient. There are probably as many negative outcomes from immobilization as there are from not immobilizing.

Law enforcement is a bad example for comparison because of all the aspects of patrol that require them to be out and about. They proactively address police issues from traffic safety and enforcement to intervening for crimes in progress. The location of most firehouses was done to minimize response times (right, Barry?) but EMS doesn't have that kind of resources in most communities. I agree, it's not a user-friendly approach and certainly takes its toll on personnel but what are the alternatives? Floating budget requests for buildings and more units?

How come the mayor can't be the voice of reason? Is that a rhetorical question? Elected officials and voice of reason seems like an oxymoron.

To a certain extent, I agree with you but lounge areas are probably not the problem area. Kitchen (theft/tampering), common hallways (access points), mechanical rooms (vandalism), apparatus bays (all of the above) are legitimate areas for security cameras. Lounge areas, changing rooms, bathrooms, and sleeping quarters should not be monitored - it is reasonable to expect some privacy in those kinds of places.

If that was my number I'd change my user name to Mockingbird Lane.

A sensibly sized firehouse? What will they think of next? On Long Island that wouldn't even be big enough for the KITCHEN!

Hijacked from the thread on the trunked radio system here in Westchester: I'm asking merely out of curiosity (for a change I'm not being sarcastic): How is safety affected by the responders with pagers not hearing the responding apparatus on the trunked system?

If the FD investigators collect the evidence and present it to the police for an criminal investigation I can understand it but if they summon the police to the scene and the police enter the scene without a warrant I foresee problems. The legal opinion that INIT915 posted specifically excluded criminal investigations from the "authorization for emergency services to enter private property" in that example leading me to believe that there may be issues with these situations. Probable cause does not mean you can do something with out a warrant, it means you have grounds to obtain one. This doesn't say "except for fire chiefs or arson investigators" so I don't know how you can get around the warrant requirement. Is anyone familiar with case law about these situations?

Great insight, thanks! Does the FD have some statutory authority to collect evidence from private property without a warrant and without permission of the property owner? General Municipal Law 204D states that the fire chief shall notify the appropriate investigative authority if a fire/explosion is suspicious or incendiary, it is silent about the collection of evidence leading me to wonder about the Constitutional issues and search warrant requirements if it is to be used in a criminal case?

I'm really interested to see the law you're referring too. Someone once told me something similar (in fact, he said the "title of the property was transferred to the FD during an emergency" which I've NEVER heard of before). If the FD and Fire Chief are following an established policy they may or may not be found liable of anything. That's pure speculation. If the FD gets to an alarm that is apparently false does he/she as a matter of policy check all the walls with a TIC? If not, how is that any different than if he/she is cancelled because nothing is visible?

No, you're not off base! Citations to laws or other references should be backed up with a link so that others can follow-up on their own. The problem with laws is that they're subject to interpretation! The text of the GML previously cited follows and it makes no reference to the points previously highlighted. It's also interesting that this law requires the fire chief to report whether or not a cigarette pack was properly marked if a cigarette started the fire!

I don't know if this has been tried before, and I'm sure there are geekier ways of doing it but here we are... Kickoff is a little more than 6 hours away and I'm posting the EMTBravo Superbowl XLII Pool. Better late than never, I suppose. Each box is 50 EMTBravo Points. Post your box choice in a reply below and transfer 50 points per box to me and I’ll post it on the pool. Prizes are as follows: First and Third Quarters = 500 points Halftime = 1000 points Final = 3000 points Check prior posts to see if a box was selected – duplicate box selections will be ignored.

Does anyone know the cost of such a resource? Is there any reason that the County (or a facsimile thereof) couldn't get another one for use around the County?

1st Quarter 300,000 sunsetnomad 1st Quarter Reverse 100,000 67-13 2nd Quarter 300,000 EJS1810 2nd Quarter Reverse 100,000 Chris192 Half 750,000 pcfdrfd700 Half reverse 150,000 ScottyK107 3rd Quarter 300,000 242Steve 3rd Quarter Reverse 100,000 242Steve 4th Quarter 300,000 x129K 4th Quarter Reverse 100,000 FutureFireman Final 2,000,000 FutureFireman Final Reverse 300,000 x129K

Congratuations winners!

Thanks to the generosity (and insanity) of some members - the pool prizes have dramatically increased! They are now: First Quarter 300,000 1st Quarter Reverse 100,000 HALF 750,000 Half Reverse 150,000 Third Quarter 300,000 3rd Quarter Reverse 100,000 FINAL 2,000,000 Final Reverse 300,000 The final pool is as follows: In the interest of fairness, the remaining boxes were filled on a first-come first-serve basis with whatever the available boxes were. If you sent me more points than you received boxes, just send me another note and I'll send the difference back to you. As I said earlier, we'll try to find a real-time way of tracking this next year! Enjoy the game! The winners will receive their prizes tomorrow.

OK, note to self: next year find a way to update in real-time! To all who requested a box in the last several minutes. Thanks but we've filled all the boxes now. I'll be giving people available boxes until they're all gone. If you requested a box and didn't get it, I apologize. If you sent points in and didn't get a box, I'll refund them. The final pool will be posted shortly! Enjoy the game and thanks for playing!

54 is all yours! A couple of you need to recheck your numbers and pick new ones from the latest update. Sorry for the inconvenience! Tick, tock. Two hours to game time!

Please recheck your picks against the latest update. Some people double picked between these updates and didn't see the posts claiming the numbers. In fairness, the first one who claimed the number go it. In light of Bibbles generosity, the prizes have changed too! First Quarter 75,000 First Quarter Reverse 25,000 Halftime 500,000 Halftime Reverse 100,000 Third Quarter 75,000 Third Quarter Reverse 25,000 Final 1,000,000 Final Reverse 200,000 Here is the latest and greatest pool... Please check it for your numbers carefully!

There are agencies all over the place that respond TO everything with lights and siren and FROM the scene to the hospital with EVERY patient with lights and siren. It is absurd, dangerous, and if you really think about it, illegal. It is pathetic and just goes to show how far we have to go before we have a real emergency services system around here.

If you're told to cancel by a competent authority (depending on your system, that may be a variety of players) then you should have cancelled! Why are you still responding in any mode if you've been told you're not needed and can clear? If you are acting with due regard and are involved in an accident, your liability will increase? Is that a typo? You will probably be indemnified if you're acting in good faith and with due regard. If you ignore response instructions (codes for response or other directions) you're probably going to bear some personal responsibility. As for other disciplines cancelling each other, that depends on the structure and sophistication of the system that the resources are operating in. We don't have a very sophisticated system and are still quite territorial so this doesn't work very well in our area. In other parts of the world, when a unit arrives and assesses the scene, they broadcast the assessment and may cancel some resources or request others and it works very well. At the very least, the ranking officer from a different service uses that assessment to determine what his/her agency will do/how they will respond. I still find it absurd that when the IC (that is the person on scene in command) requests a modified response, or that resources stage at a given location, these instructions are ignored because they're coming from a person in a different uniform. That's ridiculous. For EMS, there is no reason at all why a trained EMS professional (CFR, EMT, or medic) can't cancel ALS if the call is BLS or vice versa. To require an ALS response on every call is not practical or cost efficient (I know, there are lots of examples where this still happens around here). Sure there are going to be instances where a patient triaged to BLS changes status and would benefit from ALS but they are in the minority and easily captured by the system's QA/QI program as BNECHIS indicated. Medics can triage patients to BLS too. In many systems the BLS providers are entirely too reliant on the medics and won't cancel them even when other calls are holding and the one they're on is clearly BLS. Please do provide the citation on this elusive law that people often refer to when discussing who should be in charge or who's the ultimate authority. There are laws that require certain things of certain officials but there is nothing that I'm aware of that prohibits resources from cancelling each other - again that's a system issue.