firecapt32

In this world we live in--in todays society-- we should be a tolerant and forgiving people. Having said that-- We as a fire service--and especially those in command are and must be held to higher standards. Hopefully we all learned this is Fire Officer one/two. To show my age--things that have been said or done in the past cannot be condoned in to days society. Yes I am sure a lot of things have been said in the heat of battle or across a kitchen table that once we spoke the words we regretted saying them. Maybe society cannot forgive and forget but hopefully we can forgive and move forward. Just my thoughts

Paul now that you have confused everyone in here can you say it in a manner that we all understand--no wit I do understand it keep that COLA coming.

Not to pile on-- but there are things you can do...Career departments have had laws passes to establish the "229" for training. every volunteer organization was against this.. So you need to get your County/ State organizations moving forward. there's a lot of middle ground out there for training. you might go over the heads of local Fd's and go to the local Govt board of trustees- mayor--city council and make them get involved---but I have to say good luck with that. If you have a progressive local govt --they just might understand the problems. just a few random thoughts

absolutely a great topic--Avon Rob is right on the money with who he mentioned. All great men in the fire service but I think I would have to bring it closer to home--and include my dad ex Chief od NTFD for it was with him that I took in my first fire. My cousin Joe Moore another family member that taught me well. Finally-- I knew I was going to be of some value to the fire service when I entered a fire building from the rear of Kaldenberg Place Tarrytown. the fire was in a hardware store that faced Broadway. I took the line with 2 members of TFD--one was Dick Nagle and the other was Allen Mazzaros. We took the line in paint cans were popping all around us fire over our heads-later I found out that theses tow firefighters just got out of FDNY probie academy I was just 18. We kicked that fires ass pretty good-- that was back in 1968 no masks--came out all snottied up --saw my dad standing there--Dick came up to my dad and said "don't worry about him pop he did you proud in there" years later Dick and I are spending a nice afternoon up at the State Academy-ok it was at the Lodge over cocktails cant lie- he as the head of the Academy me as a NYS Fire Instructor teaching a class, we had a great laugh about it because neither of us ever forgot the incident.

Lets not forget in all of this "Stuff" the fantastic job the Brothers did that night under these extreme circumstances--. rescues were made-- civilians were saved--firefighters put their lives on the line for the citizens of Mt Vernon. To any firefighter pulling up on a scene and being told that people were trapped in side--chills run up and down your spine--your training kicks into high gear and you go to work doing the best you can. Those firefighters and Officers that night were sworn to protect the citizens of Mount Vernon and they did it to the best of their ability. 2 men 3 men it didn't matter - people were trapped and they went to work, knowing full well that at any time it could be them in trouble...it didn't matter- they did it any way. For that the people of Mt Vernon should be proud of firefighters and Officers of FDMV. Let politics take its course--it will all shake out--but FDMV did a yeoman's job that night. Just my thoughts

I do believe that all Chiefs have a chance to review to their running card or rather now it might be called their CAD and decide before the S**t hit the fan just who they want responding to their department. Then it is all laid out for the dispatchers. All the IC has to do is say give me a second or a third or cover my quarters, its all laid out. The coordinators on arrival to a multiple alarm fire, informs the IC as to what he has at the scene(in mutual aid) what he has covering(in mutual aid) and if he requests and additional men or equipment. He then becomes a liaison between the IC and the County for any additional equipment or apparatus or other recourses that the IC may require. In conclusion it is pretty simple the Chiefs just have to keep a current CAD, but having said that-- there might be alarms in other places which then we would depend on the professionalism of the dispatchers to make correct decisions and keep everyone informed. That's my two cents on the situation

time for me to weigh in on this one--again stating it is just my thoughts. There is or should have been a system in place to file for 207-A related injuries and or illnesses. if he missed a dead line or wasn't aware of what to do--that becomes a union issue. The one year out sick is a decision on the Districts part-- after one year(unlimited sick) the District has the right to send you to THEIR doctor and get a opinion on whether the firefighter can work or not. If he CAN'T he is then entitled to a medical disability--- that amounts to 1/3 of his salary or his last 12 months which ever is higher. He would then be able to register for social Security disability for medical expenses. To be denied this opportunity is just wrong on the District. Unless I am missing some important information.

all firefighter one classes whether given by the State or the County must have OFPC approval no matter who is paying. That is not happening to a local department OFPC will be hard pressed to authorize a "special" FF1 class for any department. Then every department will want a "special" class just for them--can you see the nightmare happening. Even if you hire an outside company to teach FF1 to get the state to approve it is almost impossible--I say almost because you can never say never in this world. Westchester has I believe 10-13 state fire instructors and state Hours have been increased for the year plus a cadre of County fire Instructors all capable of teaching FF1 and many more courses. Lets not forget that a FF1 is like 90 hours and most instructors tack on safety and survival so its over 100 hours--that's a lot of commitment. I know one state fire instructor that did a FF! one night a week!!! took 1/2 a year to complete. don't hang me on the hours they are approximate when I talk about commitment --- firefighter one classes start out with between 20- 25 students and end up with between 15-20 some do not even bring a book do not read the assignments or just cant do the work(physically). Fire instructors teach to the standard of the State--when a student cant make that standard-- they get dropped. their local department can keep them as firefighters (AHJ) but no certificate of completion is given. again just my thoughts make the standard--keep to the standard we are sworn to protect the citizens of our community. We can no longer " just get by" we need to improve and move forward. The past is nice to look at and reminisce about but lets not make it our future.

1- NYS Fire Instructors cannot teach any courses any where with out approval of OFPC. So the problem isn't with the Instructors its with OFPC. 2- NYC along with OFPC set the standard for Departments coming into the City. 3-Westchester has been assigned the Bronx--this is from FDNY and OFPC. 4-Each responding member is entered into the computer system to check credentials. Westchester meets at the Yonkers raceway to check in then gets a assignment. No one goes into the city with out being checked in first -or they will be subject to arrest by NYPD. 5-Limited apparatus allowed into the City---5 man eng--5 man trucks as per FDNY and OFPC. 6-LI covers Queens and Brooklyn same deal as Westchester and I believe NJ covers Staten Island if needed same as everyone else. As for who trains with who -- why cant the Departments request departments with similar training... Example if your department is at a "job" and is tied up for a while and you need coverage---and you do EMS runs. You need a department with fire and EMTS and a EMS system to cover you. Why should you bring in any department that isn't up to your standards. If you have high rise buildings why bring in a department that has a 4 story height limit in their town or has never trained on high rise fires. Thers a lot to consider here.

1- NYS Fire Instructors cannot teach any courses any where with out approval of OFPC. So the problem isn't with the Instructors its with OFPC. 2- NYC along with OFPC set the standard for Departments coming into the City. 3-Westchester has been assigned the Bronx--this is from FDNY and OFPC. 4-Each responding member is entered into the computer system to check credentials. Westchester meets at the Yonkers raceway to check in then gets a assignment. No one goes into the city with out being checked in first -or they will be subject to arrest by NYPD. 5-Limited apparatus allowed into the City---5 man eng--5 man trucks as per FDNY and OFPC. 6-LI covers Queens and Brooklyn same deal as Westchester and I believe NJ covers Staten Island if needed same as everyone else. As for who trains with who -- why cant the Departments request departments with similar training... Example if your department is at a "job" and is tied up for a while and you need coverage---and you do EMS runs. You need a department with fire and EMTS and a EMS system to cover you. Why should you bring in any department that isn't up to your standards. If you have high rise buildings why bring in a department that has a 4 story height limit in their town or has never trained on high rise fires. Thers a lot to consider here.

thanks for the post SPORTS RAFFLE --4 GIANT tickets 4-JET tickets 4-METS tickets 4-YANKEE tickets 4-ARMY football tickets. ONE WINNER gets all 20 tickets $50.00 a ticket even if you hated the yanks or the Jets still a great package for a great cause. Also hole sponsors $200.00 a hole come on spent some pf that money you guys collect and give to a charity that need some Fire department support. come play wef32@optonline.net

Marty now I have to get a GPS to get me to the fires in mount Vernon!!! congratulations I hope we get to share a cart in Myrtle real soon.

lets take a look at what's out there now--aren't there standards out there already in place but just aren't being met by some fire departments?? Some departments aren't even trying to meet them. 1-physicals 2-maks fit testing 3-all sections of osha including BBP/lock out/tagout haz mat, 4-bailout systems 5-updated turnout equipment 6-scba updates and practices 7-annual training according to nfpa 1500 8-firefighter one or equivalent That's just for firefighters that are "interior"

wanna help your neighbor and have don't think you need training--- pick up their garbage bring it to the dump-- volunteer at the library-- join the elks. firefighting is a dangerous profession whether you do it for a salary or not.. ask the 19 that lost their live in a forest fire!!! Train train train when you think you have had enough train more again just my thoughts

It will probably take a slew of law suites to make any changes,, and believe me there will be law suites---failure to provide adequate fire protection!! a million dollar truck or two wont hold up in court as adequate protection.. neither will" we do the best we can with what we have" or the famous one "We are only volunteers--a career department will cost millions of dollars" Lawyers will have a field day with those. the fire service is and looks to be always a reactionary organization--not a proactive organization. just my 2 cents

Great idea--aint going to happen as long as there are organizations that are still in the dark ages as far as firefighting is concerned. Lowering standards or worse not having any borders on criminal intent. Having taught some firefighter one classes in the last few years I can tell you one thing--- class starts out with 20-25 in the class. Last session maybe 16-17. Very few are willing to take a National firefighters one test, because departments do not require taking one. communities do not send in untrained police--they send them for 16 weeks of training. Yet theses communities use their AHJ to say the fire department is doing the best it can with what it has-- not reality. minimum of Firefighter one-- SET A STANDARD work toward the STANDARD. Put money in the budgets for training not one million dollar pieces of fire apparatus. Those that have the training should DEMAND more form their departments . Standards should be set for becoming firefighters/ fire officers/fire chiefs -- plane and simple. While I am at it STANDARDS should be set for any one driving fire department vehicles. How many departments are just not doing any thing? OSHA/ Physicals/Mask fit testing (cant tell you how many are send to FF1 with out a mask fit or physical but do have the sheet signed by the chief) Bail out systems/ haz mat requirements/ BBP standards. Turnout standards being ignored. sorry for the rant but this is a great topic and can get a lot of interest-- just believes it falls on deaf ears sometimes.

not sure if its over board or not but I think in the public interest that it is a good idea--the public are the people we are sworn to protect so thier faith in the department is paramount. Hopefully it is one bad apple we do not need the whole barrel to get a rotten stench to it because of the one incident. So better to be safe then sorry. All departments do a arson background check why not a full criminal check.do we want felons or convicted child molesters in our departments or people that have committed crimes like burgulary or som kinf of home invasion. How many department do a full background check? I hope this is a isolated incident and everyone gets back to doing what they swore to do --- protect the publis the best that we can.

The county would not allow any apparatus on the apron of the dam so there was no way to draft any water from the basin.

I am reading a lot of great comments on this subject. One standard seems to be the common thread. Lets try and agree on some common "facts" there are well trained firefighters both career and volunteer. Having said that. ITS THE PEOPLE THAT WE ARE SWORN TO PROTECT THAT DESERVE THE BEST/WELL TRAINED FIREFIGHTERS. One fire-- ten fires--fifty fires how many does it take to injury and or kill a firefighter ---answer one If you want to help your community and cannot make the common standard--and that my friends is only the minium-- go to the parks and receration and grab a rake or broom, I am sure can help cleanup. Again lets not lose sight of the big picture--We as firefighters are in business to protect the people of our town/village/city/fire district. We do not send un trained police out there why do we send untrained or undertrained fire personnel out there?? dont even think the answer is because IT'S Free. or they do the best they can that dosent make it in this century. I have listened to many of the following: you cant expect us to put in all thoses hours. we take time away from our families. We do the best we can it doesnt fly in 2013 I grew up playing basball--third base for the little league Cubs-- I know i cant play for the Yankees--wait maby I can but you get the picture. Lets all be major leagures here. ONE STANDARD thats not too much to ask to protect our citizens. EOR---end of rant

I remember several fire at the plant including a propane explosion in Nov of '68 and a fire in the paint section in early '70 I believe. The 68 explosion causes injuries and damaged apparatus but luckly no one was killed. I also remember before the expansion of GM the hugh ball field--football seperate baseball field--several tennis courts--5 -or 6 smaller ball fields for little league. Lots of room for us kids to play and not get in trouble--kinda

are we damed if we do and damed if we dont?? osha and every other organization says things like 2 in/2 out. We are doing more with les--we all know that/ BUT what if some one gets hurt?? will the village /town/city/district take the responsibility and say that they were understaffed?? My thoughs every Fire Chief should go on the record with their AHJ stating that they are understaffed but they will do what ever it takes to protect the public but that they understand the ramifications of what can happen if a firefighter gets injured. It might not help but at least some one is on record if the shi* hits the fan. again just my view being a incident commander is not an easy job and not for the weak at heart.

and if for some reason the driver had to hit the breaks?? santa flys off and over the cab?? who want to write that report/ kids running after the trucks chasing candy kanes and nothing can go wrong?? i dont think so chiefs car fornt and back might help but cant be 100% . sirens blasting?? believe me i dont want to be a scrooge but put santa in the chiefs car not on top of a first due appratus.

ok heres my take on the subject--and please do not take it as gospel--"Structure fire" is defined by NYS NIFERS. any fire in/on or under s structure. "Working fire" --here comes that age and wisdome factor---comes from when the Officer would communicate with either the members of the crew or base department that the members were in fact "going to work" there are lots of fire house/department jargon out there that has been a carryover form many years ago. We are steep in tridiation. HAPPY HOLIDAYS TO ALL AND TO ALL A SAFE HOILDAY

more answers huzzie59 a second task force and staging area if needed is scheduled to be set up at the Westchester Fire Training Center. All apparatus and men going through the same sysyem as in Yonkers race way. if a department cannot meet the requirements on their own then they will be asked to partner up with other departments, As far as I know no single units will be dispatched from either location. Everyone is assigned as as "Task force" with at least 2 eng 1 ladder and a chief. Even at the raceway site if a department arrives with less then the requirement set by FDNY they will be teamed up with other departments. FDNY and OFPC has spent many hours developing this right now it seems to be working. there will be no freelancing in NYC from any fire units. They will be turned around and sent to a staging area.

huzzie 59- to answer your question---sort of--that was the problem on 911 there was no control of what departments went where. If you had a "hook" or a friend your department went. some departments just went.Some had no communication with FDNY. All intentions were good and honerable, We were all taken in by the vastness of the situation and the horrific lose of life that day but in reality it only added to the confusion . This was a praparedness drill where interoperations with communications was established, companies were divided up and worked with FDNY eng and ladders and chiefs. I am sure we all pray that there is never another situaton like 911 again but FDNY is not going to be caught off guard--they have a plan. We have been told by FDNY/NYC Police that in the event that this plan goes into effect NO one No fire apparatus will enter the city without first going through the staging areas and they must have an assigement.ALL others will be turned away.