Taking Unsafe Or Improper Orders From An Officer

[mpgfire93 4]

You are operating at scene whether a house fire, mva, ems call, or any fire related call and you are told to do something by a seinor officer chief or line officer but what has been asked of you is unsafe or you don't feel comfortable becasue you think its unsafe, what do you do or say. Or better yet you are on the scene of an mva and you are a ff/emt tending to a pt and a fire chief who is not medically trained at any level is giving you orders about what to do with YOUR pt in a very unprofessional manor, how do you respond.

I ask these questions becasue i would not like see an arguement spin off, but more advice on how members can deal with everyday conflicts that arise in the emergency services business and how to deal with them professionally.

[Guest]

You've got to be upfront with those who are giving you orders. If you don't feel comfortable or have an untrained person telling you how to tend to your patient, let them know how yuo feel. There isn't time to pussy foot around at emergency scenes, and its best to not beat around the bush. Yeah, feelings or egos may be hurt, but at the end of the day anyone with a brain in the emergency services field will respect you for speaking up when you thought it was appropriate to do so.

[JBE 328]

Explain to the superior, politely, that you will not be following that order. Then explain the reasons why you feel the action taken would be unsafe. I know time is of the essence in some situations, so make it quick.

[Guest partyrock]

Just be careful how you say it. When egos are involved its best to go easy. Suggest an alternative solution with reasons why. Like... chief maybe we should stay off the roof, its not there anymore. If you cut the car there the guy is gonna lose his leg, how about cutting over here.

[mfc2257 464]

Whenever possible take the time to pull the person to one side and say your opinion respectfully and quietly.

Whenever not possible to take the person aside be polite and try not to involve the public's ears. You don't want the bleeding guy who just ate pavement to think that there is a debate going on about their care.

Whenever you have to blatently ignore someone make sure you catch up with the person as soon after you ignored them as possible and explain yourself in a calm and cool matter. Back your reasons up with the opinions of others if you can. If the discussion turns heated, remain calm and take the high road. Let the situation settle and readdress later.

Remember..... You better be DAMN sure that you are 100% right if you challege an order from a superior. Make sure that your reasons for disregarding are based in knowledge, training, and experience and NOT because you've got a personal beef with following a certain person's orders. The spotlight's going to be on you to prove that what you did was right.

[Guest alsfirefighter]

1. Knowledge of safety and tactics supercedes anyone's authority. I have been put in this position when dealing with ventilation. I acknowledged the order got my crew together basically got a ladder didn't put it up when again looking at the roof and said to my crew its too unsafe. They agreed, I got on the radio and stated that roof conditions were too severe for operations and left it at that. Had a conversation afterward that got a bit heated, but I was very clear that it was by no means a question of rank or title...just that of individual safety which bled into crew integrity being I was the roof sector supervisor.

2. If I had a dollar for every time an non-medical person tried to tell me how to treat a patient or give me "tips" and even some emt's for that matter I'd be rich. A simple "alright, thanks bro" sometimes works. If that doesn't I will utilize my intellect to explain to them why something is or isn't being done or why I don't need the helicopter they called for by looking at vehicle damage. All else fails, I try post incident conversation, then agency head, then medical director and so on.

[robert benz 344]

Remember..... You better be DAMN sure that you are 100% right if you challege an order from a superior. Make sure that your reasons for disregarding are based in knowledge, training, and experience and NOT because you've got a personal beef with following a certain person's orders. The spotlight's going to be on you to prove that what you did was right.

that is very good advice, there may be a valid reason for not following an order and it has happened, but there are or could be repercussions so as to reply to the next quote:

You've got to be upfront with those who are giving you orders. If you don't feel comfortable or have an untrained person telling you how to tend to your patient, let them know how yuo feel. There isn't time to pussy foot around at emergency scenes, and its best to not beat around the bush. Yeah, feelings or egos may be hurt, but at the end of the day anyone with a brain in the emergency services field will respect you for speaking up when you thought it was appropriate to do so.

I am not here to bash you, but your age says 18 - 20 and you want to have a discussion with someone who just gave you a direct order? the fire service is a para military org. with a chain of command, with officers who give orders, and ff's who follow them. and my point is and i am just talking about the fire side now not ems, fires are down, fire related experience is down, and in my opinion, 18 - 20 with a very limited time in the fire service, you may not yet have a full understanding about what risks we take on the fire ground. that unsafe act better be very obvious,(like opposing handlines) you shouldnt be alone when the order to do something is given, if you want to discuss it with someone hopefully your partner has more time on than you and might be better able to explain or CONFIRM your questioning the order.

experience is usually the best way to figure out what is safe and what isnt

[Guest]

the chief is in charge of the fire scene (granted the chief or other officer is not an equal or higher medical authority). the fire scene is basically everything minus pt care. the emt is in charge on the pt until(if) the medic comes. a non-medical officer has no say, pure and simple. if something goes wrong w/ that pt because the chief barked at you...just remember...it's your emt card and your a$$ on the line...not his.