Operations on tar and gravel roofs

[Danger 160]

I was on a roof a little bit ago for a burned up air handler and I got to thinking about the roof covering. Has anyone had any experience or take extra planning/caution on operation/ventilation on the roofs with large stones?

[Paul J DeBartolomeo 0]

Danger,

Chances are that the roof on that bldg is Q decking, based on the size of the bldg and the appearence of relatively new construction. If that is in fact the case it would be best to focus on the natural opening. You can cut Q decking with the roof saw but it is a bit of a project. If the roof is wood you would have to clear as much of the stone or gravel away from the area you are going to cut. The stones in the picture look a little large so they might pose a problem. Many times the roof may be covered with smaller gravel that looks like item 4. Most times you can operate the saw through that without too much trouble. Just keep others clear of your cutting area because the stones are going to be flying, and can cause serious injury to others on the roof.

[Guest]

I would never attempt to cut a Q Decked roof. Unless you are a 100% positive of the stringers below you can very easily be swallowed up as the ridges in the decking itself provide its rigidity. You cut on the bias in the middle of a 48" piece you could be stuck in it up to your waist. Also about a 99% chance that if its a new building it will have a roof support system made of truss'. Always try and listen to a radio report from the inside team as to the amount of fire you have before you commit to the center of that roof. I am sure many have seen the video of those guys bailing out in Cali on VES.com, had they been in the middle attempting to remove AC equipment that would have been 3 funerals. Its a difficult task as to how to remove the appliances on that roof. Be sure to communicate to either the OV or the 2nd due guys the need for a maul instead of a saw up there to remove what you can. What you really need to look for is sky lights, any type of fan or cockloft vent is going to require you to push down the ceiling below, and with a 6 foot hook that could be tough since many times the ceilings in these buildings are 20ft high.

[FFPCogs 863]

PJ,

Ditto

existing vertical openings/ventilation are the best bet on these roofs. That and good, well placed horizontal venting (a sometimes forgotten art, but that's another topic). Just to reinforce your statement, if you HAVE to cut, clean the area of gravel well and keep others clear..that gravel can fly like bullets.

I'm not a big fan of PPV, but if your department practices it, these types of buildings are well suited for that evolution (generally speaking of course).

As with every other aspect of firefighting..preplans, knowledege of building construction and repeated, in-depth training will help your FFs deal with these types of issues. While a fire rages below you is definitely NOT the time to have to figure things out.

Cogs

[Guest alsfirefighter]

PJ's and Roofs posts sum up what I was thinking as well and were awesome.

Just pointing out because of the safety relavence of it..but if you are going to cut a roof that is wood with gravel..ensure your backblast area is all secure! Flat truss roof...in the immortal words of Donnie Brasco aka Joe Pistone...fugghedaboutit. I like to go natural once size up is complete.

Also remember that sometimes reports from the interior on conditions can be misleading when compared to what can be seen from outside. The high ceilings in the commercial buildings can hold a lot of heat and smoke, misleading the interior crews assessments. Report your findings on the roof immediately. Do your function and vacate the roof!

[Guest]

Make sure that the boss takes the camera, and he knows how to use it! Make sure he knows that just cause its white/red it doesnt mean that its 3000 degrees up there. That could be a good thread to start. :-)

[ny10570 745]

What they said. Existing ventilation. The only thing I want to add is do not force anything down until you confirm the crew on the line is aware of what you are doing. On two separate occasions I've treated guys who were very nearly seriously injured when the truck ventilated these structures and forced equipment inside. In one the engine never got the message and the other the engine was in further than they thought. A 50+ lb fan, motor and housing landed on a door that then slammed into a ff. Resulted in a coupe of bad bruises. The second was a ff who was struck on the head by a light and balast. Knocked him out cold, bounced off his head and into the side of the much shorter officer's head. The light struck off center saving him much of the impact force. FF wound up with a concussion and sprain, officer pulled a muscle in his neck. Had either object landed directly on either brother it would have been a completely different story. Much like the units on the roof everything mounted below you is very large and very heavy, just something to keep in mind.

[on the job 68]

Make sure that the boss takes the camera, and he knows how to use it! Make sure he knows that just cause its white/red it doesnt mean that its 3000 degrees up there. That could be a good thread to start. :-)

Danger, nice picture. I also have never seen such large stones like that on a roof. IF and only IF you had to cut a Q-deck roof, cut a triangle vent hole, so the Q-deck itself will not sag as much when your cutting/working around the vent hole/bar joist.

Otherwise there has been some good points brought up. Just my 2 cents.