JFLYNN

I can't help myself- I'm going to respond to this...I volunteer for several different charities and use my car and gas in this volunteer work...does anyone think NYS should give me a tax credit for this? I don't, nor do I think volunteer Firefighters should receive it. I might also point out that the large majority of NYS residents are protected by career Firefighters so why should they be forced to subsidize residents of districts who choose to accept being protected by a volunteer Fire Department? Pensions, tax credits, vacations, free community pool memberships, free movies,discounts on all kinds of stuff, firehouse gyms and party rooms, and I'm sure a whole bunch of other stuff I'm missing...yikes, how can someone who accepts all this call themselves a volunteer?? I don't get it... And yes, I'm sure many of you will now point out the many benefits and perks of being a career Firefighter, but that's of course irrelevant to what I have pointed out above since a career Firefighter does not claim to do it for free- it's our job, and we proudly do it well, and attempt to receive as much compensation for doing it as is legally and ethically possible, no apologies for that and no false claims that we are providing a valuable service for free... And, oh yeah, qtip...

I have 2 questions regarding what I read today in the incident alerts for the Briarcliff fire: 1. Is it accurate that units were dispatched for numerous calls to a structure fire and Briarcliff E94 did not BEGIN responding until 17 minutes after the initial dispatch? If so, why? 2. Is it accurate that an order was given to lay 2 1/2" supply line and if so, why? (forgive me, I'm not much of an engine guy) ...remember, "qtip" guys...

Just letting everyone know that someone has been deleting my posts whenever I present factual information which contrasts career vs. volunteer fire departments...I have not attacked anyone or made any false statements...is this site an anti career website??? I realize the site is privately owned and thus my posts can be deleted if the censors don't like what I say...I just want to get the word out that sooner or later it looks like I will no longer be able to post on here and to point out to those of you who use the site that there is much hypocrisy at work here...

as I explained in a previous post, qtip = "quit taking it personal"...I had noticed that many times on this site when a differing opinion on a particular issue is presented, such as that there are clear differences between the selection criteria, background checks, medical and age qualifications, minimum TRAINING levels, promotion process, accountability levels, etc. of career vs. volunteer departments, many people take it very personally and go on and on about their own personal resumes, level of commitment, FEELINGS, etc., This is a problem because the problem or issue being discussed is usually much larger and more important than any one individuals particular INDIVIDUAL situation, and getting upset and taking it personal and using your own personal situation as your side of the argument about an ISSUE, rarely adds any intelligent discussion to the issue.

Yikes, Moose, qtip...it is what it is...there are just clear differences between the way career vs. volunteer departments function ( as opposed to the old adage- we do the same job as the career guys, the only difference is we don't get paid) and a lot of people both in the fire service and not in the fire service are not aware of that, so questions are asked and answers are given...

Yes, Monticello was spelt right...

But of course if the town ever did do away with the Fire District, the volunteer department which technically owns the buildings and equipment would donate it back to the residents from whom came the funds to buy the building and equipment in the first place...right? After all, the volunteers only want to SERVE their residents, they are not volunteering in order to receive any personal gain or possession...right?

Ditto

The second paragraph in blue font is part of my reply... I goofed up somehow...

Maybe just a "Seth, I apologize" would have worked better for you here... When you make a statement on this forum, it is obviously then open for discussion, debate, or criticism. I, and others, had a problem with a statement you made. If it "grates on your nerves", I would suggest that you either stop posting, or "qtip"... I stand by any comments I have made in this forum and do not believe I have made any personal attacks such as the one you have obviously just made against me...don't worry everyone...I'll remember to "qtip"...

Aren't spare or reserve apparatus, or "backup apparatus" as you refer to them, bought and paid for by the taxpayers to be available in that town, village, city, or district, in the event that they are needed for emergency response?

gss131 and FirNaTine...good point about all the rigs...if they are necessary for fire protection somewhere, whether front line, spare, or reserve, why is it appropriate to bring them out of the city, town, village, district, etc., for a funeral or parade? Of course, we don't know the specifics of this particular instance, but I guess you guys, like me, have been frustrated at all the times we have seen certain departments use apparatus at funerals or parades that are far away from the area they are supposed to be protecting...who can blame the public for asking why this is done with THEIR apparatus? For the record, I don't agree with some of the other things this guy said, but I remembered to "qtip" and it was no big deal for me...

I didn't say that MY aerialscopes are failing- they're not-I'm in Yonkers...the brothers in Mt.Vernon are having problems through no fault of their own, the city of Mt.Vernon refuses to provide them with adequate resoures... ...if your point was that in all the years Snorkel has been making articulating platforms, you've never heard of a problem or outcry as you put it, and you were basing your opinion on Chicago and other big cities, why did you only reference your town and your two snorkels in your first post ????? BTW, I have no real opinion regarding Snorkels and escape systems, it's not my area of expertise...it just seemed obvious to me from your first post that it is not an area of expertise for you either and you sounded awfully sure of yourself as well as condescending to the first poster who asked a valid question... ...qtip...

That's the whole point of this site isn't it? To provide information that is not available to you from within your own department or based on your own personal experience? Do you think that 40 years of experience with TWO snorkels in your department (which I am sure you will tell me is SOOOO busy) is all anybody needs to determine whether this is a "big issue" or not? The more personal "experience" you get the more you will (hopefully) realize that experience can be a good teacher, but it is a real hard way to learn... remember, "qtip"...

What is your definition of "ARM CHAIR QUARTERBACK"?

What is a "back-up engine" ? What exactly is the meaning of "first due" as used here? (If there are 2 engines involved, how can they both be considered "first due" ?

I really don't care if you respect my rank as a chief or not...you don't work for me...but thanks for the thought I guess...and I certainly do recall that I stated YFD REFUSES to sit in a firehouse for more than 30 minutes if that department hasn't started a recall, and I fully support our position on that...if more departments thought that way, I have no doubt that many of the manning problems you all complain about would be solved...and frankly, what happens "normally" in the rest of Westchester doesn't really influence the decisions that the leaders of the YFD make concerning our operations...we make these decisions primarily based on the safety and well being of our own members and the citizens of the city of Yonkers...this of course, does not mean that we don't care about the rest of Westchester, just that we are not afraid to take an unpopular position when we know we are right...

Domenick, it was clear to me why you asked the question in your original post and it was a very good question, which is why I got involved here. It was of course, very predictable which direction this thread would go. For me, after 20 years in the Fire Service, I could almost have scripted all the replys and back and forth. (Except the part about PD- how the heck did that get brought into it?) I think we should all ask ourselves this question: Am I taking all this too personally? Try to look at this(these) issues objectively and not through the prism of just your own town/ village/ city, and ask yourself what is really best for the public we are sworn to protect. Stop being hypocritical and patting yourselves on the back all the time (some of you). Look in the mirror before you point your finger. There was / is obviously a problem in Pelham. A routine fire. It is supposed to be a combination department. The career guys on duty, all 3 of them, I think, are supposed to drive the apparatus to the scene and operate the apparatus and then the volunteers provide the manpower. If the system works as advertised, why did so many outside departments need to respond? If the system doesn't work, why aren't the "leaders" (chiefs and union) not loudly complaining about it??? To me, it is their moral obligation to do so. People like Bnechis, a very knowledgeable and hardworking individual, just do not get it. He continues to explain away and excuse WHY the municipalities can't afford adequate fire protection. It is not your job to do that and what you say about how much taxes will have to be raised, etc. simply is not true. Maybe the FD needs to be given a higher priority and other things can be cut. Maybe other revenue sources can be identified. There are many factors at work here. I actually believe the regionalization plan being discussed could work here in Westchester... the problem is, it never will unless bold steps are taken, such as the things Yonkers has done over the years, and thus the reason since I came on almost exactly 20 years ago that we have increased our manpower and resources significantly, and virtually no other department in Westchester has...There were many naysayers in the years here in Yonkers (our own guys and chiefs) telling us to just be happy with what we had, the city was broke, blah, blah, but many of us pushed forward and made the case for what we needed, and 20 years later- a fully manned and trained heavy rescue where there was none, a thriving special ops and training divisions where there was little or none, a Battalion 2 aide where there was none, minimum manning clause, adequate spare and reserve apparatus, and more. And why was it so important to accomplish all this? To feed our own egos or fill our pockets- nope, although it is nice to make a decent living and to feel pride in your department...the real reason for all of us to push to obtain the tools we need to do our jobs is because we have a moral obligation to the public we are sworn to protect. If you make this argument convincingly enough, with some courage and tenacity, who can stop you?

FYI, New Rochelle is a fully career department so I was not assuming that he volunteers there. What I was asking is where does he volunteer since he says he lives in New Rochelle. That seems germane to this topic to me. He hasn't answered so I can only draw my own conclusions. As to the portion of your reply pertaining to age limits, training, etc., thanks for helping me make my point.

Thanks, I appreciate that. What I was referring to was a retirement age limit-NYS Police-Fire pension system has a mandatory retirement age. Also, Yonkers now has a maximum age limit to take the test beginning with the upcoming June test- no older than 29 the day you take the test (but that is not what I was referring to).

Nope, no anti volunteer tendencies here...in fact, I volunteer for lots of things in my community and church. I do have a problem with hypocrisy and also with half-truths which I suspect are happening here. This individual stated that he has a home and family in New Rochelle and also stated that he is a volunteer firefighter. Since New Rochelle is a career department he would have to be volunteering somewhere outside of New Rochelle, or maybe he doesn't actually live in New Rochelle. I know that you don't necessarily have to be a resident of the community to be a member of the volunteer FD.However, if you connect the dots and follow this thread through from the beginning, I believe that most reaonable people would conclude that this individual is not being entirely forthcoming. P.S. While I do not have a problem with volunteer firefighters, I do have a problem with hypocrisy. For instance, if you say you are a "volunteer"- don't ask for any benefits or compensation i.e. pensions, tax breaks, paid vacations, and many more. AND, if you say that you are as qualified as a career firefighter, live up to the same training standards, promotional testing process, medical standards, background checks, drug and alcohol screening, age limits, etc. etc. Also, guarantee a minimum set level of manpower that will be in the firehouse able to respond when an alarm comes in, regardless of whether it is day or night, weekend, holiday, or the alarm in question sounds exciting or not. Of course, many of you will read this post and accuse me of being anti-volunteer, will twist my words, and will go way off topic. That's to be expected, certain people have a mindset and it won't be changed. The good news is that many of you are open minded and maybe haven't really thought of this issue in this way and this information may give you a different perspective. Let the games begin....

For the record, I also totally believe that this is possible, and I think it is the goal you should be trying to achieve. However, as I have said, all the fancy data, plans, charts and graphs, are uselsss if the chiefs and unions don't get together and start making noise. No noise about the recent fire in Pelham or the decision to not hire 5 Firefighters in MT. Vernon. Call a press conference. Write letters and put people on the spot. When a chief writes a letter to a municipal leader (or gets on TV or in the papers) stating that in his professional opinion, the department is extremely undermanned and if something isn't done, tragedy will result (which it will), it makes it a lot more likely that you will accomplish what you are trying to accomplish- adequate fire protection for the public we are sworn to protect.

So, BEFORE you were a member of NRFD you were a volunteer somewhere (but you won't tell us where)...you worked however many years on NRFD and were NOT a volunteer during that whole time, then you retired and are NOW a volunteer again but your family and home are in New Rochelle???? Sure, all this is possible, but I find it hard to believe and thus it goes to your credibility.

Again a statement is made which cannot be backed up. I have stated what Yonkers mutual aid policy is and I can back this up. You stated that we left New Rochelle "prematurely"...define prematurely and give a specific incident please. A statement was made that Yonkers apparatus drove past a fire on their way out of New Rochelle...this is slander as far as I am concerned...if it is true give a date and the apparatus involved...

You act as if Yonkers YFD stole funding from NRFD. Are you of the impression that, in the whole big state budget, if Yonkers had gotten less, than New Rochelle would have gotten more? It's our fault? It seems like you have some personal resentment toward the YFD. As I stated in my initial post, I respect the NRFD. I'm sorry you are so angry and resentful, I don't think you are in touch with the mainstream of the NRFD though, with whom YFD has very good relations. I doubt very much what you have stated concerning the "Bonnefoy Pl." fire is true. How about some more detail and substantiation.? My question about where are you a volunteer Firefighter has everything to do with this topic as it goes to your credibility- you stated that your home and family are in New Rochelle, yet your profile says you are affiliated with a volunteer Fire Department.