bmfd231

R.I.P.

He was a great county executive. As a Pilot, we all felt he had our back and the vision and initiative to create the County Airport we have today. Otherwise we would still have those quanset huts from WWII. Thanks Andy for a great job!!!

Croton is not alone...Briarcliff has the same problem...spotty coverage of calls...OVAC to the Rescue. 15 years ago OVAC was mostly volunteer with few shifts being covered by paid personell. Now due to erosion of the volunteer base OVAC is covered nearly 24/7 with paid crews both ALS and BLS. OVAC also contracts with Briarcliff and Croton for an ALS flycar. Call volumes are thru the roof and even with 2 buses and the flycar OVAC is sometimes stretched too thin to cover calls in either village for transport. Solution, hire a paid driver in both communities and they will have coverage.

You don't know what your are talking about! The only one to the rescue is Briarcliff saving OVAC's butt, and on regular basis. You don't want me to get into the details because I can document them all1 I might also add that OVAC does not run the Flycar which is a SEPARATE SERVICE. Maybe you should talk to your "Chief" and get your facts straight, because you can be dam sure I will be having a conversation with him about you.

These people are tearing us apart from within! We are all worried about the terrorist overseas, but maybe the real terrorist is our government and those people who are working to dismantle us piece by piece right here on our own soil. I hope this battle continues to the Supreme Court

Chemflex, which has been back on the market for a yearish works very well. You need to cover the top and fireplace opening of the chimney after you place the bomb in the flue.

Another method (I have never tried at an actual chimney fire) is to us low power positive pressure fan and use a Dry Chem extingusher and intermittently shoot it up the chimney. The benefit for this method is no personnel needed on the roof, the negative is the pressure can force the fire thru cracks in the chimney. Must use a tic to look for extension.

In Briarcliff, we only dispatch on 46.26. We have our own uhf frequency (Channel 10) as well as a uhf crossband repeater into 46.26. All our apparatus are on Channel 10 and we have been supplying dual band uhf pagers for some time that has 46.26 thru our CB repeater for paging and the secondary frequency has our channel 10 so members can hear communications. It works very well, especially during storms when everyone is fighting for 46.26.

Anyone know the results of the Katonah Parade?

An operating department will ask a neighboring department to standby in quarters instead of coming to their community to provide coverage. The neighboring department will then respond to calls to the operating departments community but will also be available to respond in their own community as well. More importantly, if the neighboring department is needed to the scene of the operating department, the response is immediate, thus the reason for the standby.

Hope that answers your question

We use the method most talking about using Chemfex. We learned a new method when the Chemfex company burned down years ago (Chemfex is now available again though)

Here is the new method

Clear the box

Set up positive pressure fan (we have an electric one for this purpose) - use at a low to medium speed.

Fan directed to fire place area

Use dry chem extinguisher and spray in spurts up the chimney til out.

Precautions with this procedure - The pressure of the fan can cause fire thru defects in the chimney into the structure, therefore you must make a thorough TIC inspection of the chimney to the attic.

Advantages of the procedure, if roof is steep or snow covered, you do not need FF's on the roof.

We carry 300' of 5" storz attack for our ladder pipe and 200' of 3" We also carry a variety of adapters down from the 5" storz and different appliances to attach multiple hoses of various sizes.

We also use Chimfex but found out a few years ago that they are no longer made. Apparently the factory that made them burned down and was not rebuilt. While we have a supply of them, there are over 20 years old. I read a method in, it think, firehouse mag a couple of years ago where you use a positive pressure fan at a slow speed where you are pressurizing the chimney room. The fireplace needs to be cleaned out of logs, etc before using the fan then using a dri-chem extinguisher, you spray intermittently the chem up into the chimney. The fan pressure carries it up and puts out the fire. The drawback is the potential for extension from holes in the chimney so you must be checking each floor and attic with a TIC and be ready to deal with extension.

I have never tried this method so do not know how well, if at all, it works. Anyone out there ever try it?

Hi TCD

We had Robinson Roll ups installed in our KME Tower Ladder in 2005, all doors were painted. We have had no problems with the doors Scratching as a seal is placed around the door to prevent dirt from entering the compartment. I have noticed that there is some discoloration from those seals rubbing, but it is hardly noticable. Keep in mind that our truck is White and shows just about every partical of dirt that exists on the planet.

Operationally, the doors are great because they don't stick out and we have not had to do anything regarding repairs to these doors. About the only negative I will say about roll ups are the amount of space they take up on the top of the cabinet, we loose about a foot of top space.

Hope that helps

Our response protocal is East side first due - E93 & TL40 with E92 as second due. On West side calls E92 & TL40 are first due with E93 second due. TL40 is currently OOS for Maintenance, Ossining ladder was called for primary ladder. A 5" LDH supplied from the hydrant and a 2 1/2 was laid with a wye and two 1 3/4 attack. Fire gutted the kitchen on the first floor apartment.

Personal security is my primary concern when on the internet. If this site is willing to put that at risk, then this will be time to more on.

I do not believe the police should cancel responding units once the button is pushed for their response. Since the fire department would have a response proticol to follow, the FD should continue in regardless. The PD should contact the fire chief or officer in charge of the response, who would make the decision.

Unfortunately, having one agency work on separate channel is just not workable, we tried it. In Briarcliff, we have our own system, one for fire and one for ems. We had ems use there channel except when it was an mva, then they operated on fire. The reverse occurred when fire would go for an ems assist. It just became more confusing to many, where they just did not change channels. Now all operate on our fire channel and use the ems as a secondary or back up channel. Must better now

Steve the problem with the south zone at last check is as following

Figure Buses are allways using 1.

So now you only have 2 for public safety.

I thought the radios put in the buses were for emergency purposes only, not for their general business.

Fire 2141, the article is right on. Thanks for sharing it

I know this is a much discussed topic on these forums and I recently looked at the laws again. Unfortunately, the legislature doesn't see the need for using combo blue/red lights facing the front for police cars. I noticed MANY departments in New York adhering to these strict rules, with the EXCEPTION of Yonkers- anyone have any idea why for so long the Yonkers Police got away with front facing blue lights and now even some of the Yonkers Fire rigs have front facing blue lights?

County police also have blues facing foward. When the law was volunteers only, county had them in back. When the law was changed, they added in front. Don't get me wrong, I think the blue lights on emergency vehicles is one of the best additions to these vehicles because you can see them before the red.

But in answer to your question, who is going to tell them they can't.

BMFD231

I understand that the UHF portables will not communicate to 60 Control through the trunked system and the system was not designed for fireground operations.

The point I was trying to make is that if an FD that uses its "private" frequency for any fireground operations, how easy is it operationally to switch the whole Department over to a County Fireground channel. The example I gave in my previous post where a FF arrives on scene to a working fire, when does the FF switch from the FD's "private" frequency to a County FG channel, and who is to give this order. If the FF was trapped inside on his "private" frequency because he did not receive the order to change, or the order was not given, the only contact he would have with the outside world would be on his own FD frequency. Incoming FASTeam(s) would not be able to communicate with him/her unless they borrowed a radio with the "private" frequency on it. It just seems to me to be confusing as to which channel to use. IMO if the County FG's were used 24/7/365 it is just one less thing to have to worry about. The KISS principle.

This is not even mentioning the FD's that have been on, or recently established their own VHF radio systems. This is an even more difficult change not even being in the same frequency band. This is my concern regarding interoperability.

I think I see the point you are concerned with. In our operations, we move to a county fireground frequency (1-8), which all departments have during a major incident. The reason we do this is to keep our private frequency clear for command (chief) use with our PD. Command normally notifies us of the change while we are responding, or shortly after we arrive. We do this early for the exact reason you are concerned, someone may not get the message. Officers normally make sure the change has been completed.

Can it be confusing with your own frequecy, it was in the beginning. Once everyone settled down to the new procedure, they realized the advantage to it. For one and most important, we are not competing for space on 46.26, especially when departments lack consideration for others by not switching off it for there opertions. Secondly, It will also make it easier when 60 starts up the new system, because all will be doing the same as we do now...you will talk to 60 initially on one frequency (not 46.26) and then switch and stay on another for the duration. The biggest complaint people will make is they cannot hear what is going on anymore, and that will be true. We have, in part, solved this by moving to UHF pages with channel D set up as our private frequency, but it will take time to purchase enough for all FF's.

I hope this answered your question

Now that the new Trunked System will be coming online I still have some concerns about the radio communications in the County.

It is my understanding that the Trunked System will be for the initial response to the incident (i.e. response from Quarters to arrival at the incident), and communications to 60 Control. Thereon communications will be on the assigned Fireground channels.

The above scenario (in my opinion) would if implemented, facilitate interoperability between all Westchester County Fire & EMS agencies.

I am not looking to step on toes or say everyone needs to be on the County System but my concern arises from agencies using their own "private" radio systems. Among Westchester FD's, 7 FD's have had there own systems for quite some time. Within the last 5 years, 6 more FD's have moved to thier own systems. Two more FD's respond on 46.26Mhz, but move to their own freq. when on scene. This totals to 15 FD's using their own frequency at the incident.

The concern I have is that if the crap hits the fan and Mutual Aid is brought in, will the responding MA FD's be able to communicate with the host FD. It is my understanding that the career FD's down county have each other's freq's programmed in each other's radios to facilitate this interoperability.

The scenario that concerns me the most is if one of these "private" freq. FD's needs MA and they need a FASTeam to rescue one of their own. The downed FF('s) would be stuck inside with his/her radio on his/her FD's "private" channel with no means of communicating with the incoming FASTeam. As we all know it is difficult to change channels inside with full gear on. This is not to mention that the rest of the host FD's members would not be listening to or assisting the FAST, if needed, because they would still be on their "private" freq.

My question is what formal/informal policies or procedures does your FD have to facilitate communications of the operation you are working at? Think outside the box. Will you be able to communicate with FD's that will be responding from a distance (i.e. Hackley School fire)?

Current operations

In Briarcliff, our operations will continue as they do now. As you know, we have our own UHF system. Once dispatched from PD on 46.26, we immediatly move to our operational frequency for the response and communication with PD. All our portables are set for the talk around on that frequency and if we have a job, we will move to one of the Fire ground frequencies. When 60 pages the call, we respond to them on 46.26 but will still use our private frequency to contact PD. In the event we need mutual aid, we use 46.26. This system works great because we are isolated from 46.26 and are not competing for air time.

Trunked Systems

We will continue to operate as I explained above except in mutual aid calls. One of your concerns above would be the inability to communicate (ie trapped firefighter, etc) with the outside world. This would not be the case. All units will continue to use the current fireground frequencies 1 thru 8 which is located on bank C of your mobile unit and your current UHF radios. No firefighters will be carrying the new trucked handheld radio (only three given to each department - go to the chiefs), therefore you will not be able to communicate with 60 from those radios. In a mutual aid situation, a chief or command officer would contact 60 on bank A for fire or bank B for ems. There is a home channel for each bank to make that connection. Once established, 60 can create a talk group for all mutal aid unit going to that operation. If Bedford or Mamaroneck is called to Briarcliff, they will be able to talk to the IC enroute, which is not always possible now. 60 would then monitor that group and respond to requests directly from an IC.

What you need to remember is that all on the scene will continue to use the current uhf radios, using fireground 1 thru 8. All trucks and the chiefs will have the ability to communicate with 60 control

Hope that helps

big sky, little plane never works. It is not that much space when they are both competing for the same shot. I do not know how news copters work, and maybe Chris192 can weigh in on this, but I hope the pilot is not controlling the camera as well. In my opinion that would be a grievous distraction for even the most experienced pilot, especially when their job requires them to be in close proximity to other aircraft. I am looking forward to what the NTSB has to say and I will reserve further judgment till then.

God rest their souls. This is the traditional poem that is read at pilots funerals (and was quoted by Ronald Reagan during his famous speech after the challenger).

High Flight

In NY and most other areas, Helo's take positions at different altitudes and use as dedicated frequency so all the pilots can talk to each other with position reports. I was once flying out of HPN and saw about 4 choppers over an accident on 287. They all chose a corner and different altitude about 2000 feet up. Departure also notifed me before takeoff of there location since they knew I was flying in that direction.

You can still fly around Manhattan doing pretty much as you please as long as you are being watched by the Air Traffic Controller. Thats where that Yankees pitcher got himself in trouble. He was sightseeing and showboating around Manhattan. There aren't many in the northeast due to population density but every where else there are low level training routes where you can cruise along at 500 ft, 360 kts, sometimes faster and lower. You can imagine the stir that would cause with all the NIMBYs around up there. If it was an actual combat air patrol, they would be up at altitude where their engines are most efficient, meaning their fuel burn is at a minumum. In other words, these guys were either just having fun sight seeing or were doing a fly over for an event. Nothing to worry about.

Felt I need to clarify this

You really cannot do pretty much anything you want. First there were two VFR flight corridors for GA aircraft to use from ground to 1100 feet where you do not have to talk with ATC, the Hudson and East River corridors. The East river corridor was closed after the Lidle's crash into the building. He got into trouble because he did not judge the cross wind in the corridor resulting in to wide a turn. The East river corridor is not very wide and his Cirrus Sr20 is not a slow plane. The corridor is now permanantly closed to all aircraft except seaplanes and helicopters, which it should be.

What did you mean by low level traing routes? If you are talking about military, most are off-shore or below Washington. These areas are restricted to all GA aircraft when they are active. Military a/c use them as you discuss. Any other area, all aircraft including military are restricted to 250knots below 18,000 feet. Nobody is doing 360 knots. Additionally, you are correct that aircraft can go as low as 500' if in uninhabited areas and sometimes over water, otherwise 1000 feet is the minimum

It is up too me because I am the LAW on the road. If there is an accident scene it is my job to make sure that first the patients are being taken care of followed by making sure that we can get traffic moving if it is possible. I don't need 8000 volunteers in their own cars blocking the roadway and getting in the way of traffic. I am sorry that you get offended by this but one time a VOLUNTEER FF got into one of our POLICE CARS and moved it on a scene. Because LEO was a VOLUNTEER FF he only yelled at the guy. I may have done something else like charge him with Unauthorized Use. What right did that person or any other person have to move a POLICE CAR? What if one day I moved a Fire Truck? I would proably be fired. So use your common sense and leave your cars at the FIRE HOUSE. Just for the record, I have also asked FF Drivers to move the ENGINES if they are blocking the roadway in a manner that I feel they don't need. I am not against Volunteer FF because my father and two brothers are Volunteers so it is not about that. It is about responding in POV's.

BTW, I have a level of EMS and I will also chime in when they are doing something wrong on a call. We are not all about coffee and donuts like some of you think. LOL

I do not disagree with most of what you have said, especially any volunteer touching a PD vehicle. POV's are not permitted on our calls on any highways, but there are one or two who sometimes do it anyway, I am against it. It is dangerous enought on these roadways with apparatus, PD vehicles, etc, we do not need a thousand more cars. Most PD officers deal with the chief or lead officer should they need a piece of apparatus moved. We have always worked closely with the police on scene and have never had any problems, we all work together very nicely.

If the accident is one that was on the Taconic same day as the orginal post came out, I was at that call. It was a dual response call for Millwood and Briarcliff. Originally, the call came in as above Rt 134 so Yorktown was dispatched because it was there district. They continued south and eventually found the accident in Millwoods district, thus Millwood and Briarcliff were dispatched. State Police used a number of PD vehicles to close NB Taconic, not FD. Millwood had two units on scene and Briarcliff one. Briarcliff retired all apparatus once the ambulances left the scene, so I do not know when the remaining apparatus left. State PD kept the road closed for a photo investigation of the scene.

Dispite comments made berating this scene, it was not as it was stated by the original writer, should this be the scene he witnessed. Yes, there was one or two POV's on the 100 foot wide dirt median that were volunteers who came SB and then a number of chiefs cars, also on the same median. None of them were situated to cause any interference with the roadway. The POV's should not have been there, period!!!

Was this anything like the Kings College fire? (for those of you back here in Westchester)

←

From the pictures, I would say no.

When we arrived for Kings, the lodge (400 x 100 4 story) was fully involved and collapsed a short time after arrival. There was a second building attached to the lodge about the same size but newer and more fire resistant. This building was an interior attact which was key in saving that building. A third 10 story building behind it had some minor fires to deal with.

Our moderators will be more tolerant and will refrain from deleting posts unless absolutely neccasary. We will make our best effort to notify the member of the deletion, explain the reason why, and encourage the member to repost within the guidelines of the forum.

We are deciding whether or not to open our "trash can" forum for a limited time, so that members can see some of the deleted posts, and hopefully understand why some posts are deleted.

-EMTBravo Network Webteam

P.S. If you have time, please review Truck4's "Statement On Site Content"

http://emtbravo.net/index.php?showtopic=5798

←

Great

Why don't you start with returning the discussion you started during the week and then deleted it!!!