dave0820

Do we owe the public the truth about their fire depts. ability to handle a structure fire? What I mean by that is we ask the taxpayers for money to run the dept, yet in truth, on any given day at any given time, it takes more than THAT dept to control the situation. Forget career / volunteer bs, this is across the board. This is not about the big one or needing a tanker/tender shuttle operation, this is the room and contents, fire that your patch on your sleeve proudly says WE CAN HANDLE.
Mutual aid to cover the empty fire houses, no problem.
Why is it the neighboring taxpayers responsibility to send its tax dollar funded dept to assist with your BASIC fire.
something is wrong here, and the longer we put our heads in the sand......................

As the Operations officer at this incident I think I can shed some light on this situation. First, the property conditions that first due units encountered where deplorable. The entire property was covered in 18-20 inches of snow with one, 12 inch wide footpath barely shoveled to the front door. The initial stretch alone was extremely strenuous and taxing on the manpower.
Once interior, crews encountered extreme Colliers Mansion conditions, preventing them from making an expedient advance on the fire on the first floor. The basement, where the heaviest fire was encountered, was a whole different story. Upon making entry to the basement, crews dealt with floor to ceiling junk as well as a well seasoned pile of firewood and the contents of of a woodworking shop.
As far as the apparatus on scene; in that geographical location, due to the lack of hydrants, we were operating from our tanker district alarm assignments, which brings more tankers than manpower carrying apparatus. The time of day is tough on manpower regardless of conditions. Factor in the conditions, and your burning through fresh bodies faster than you can get them there.
In closing, I would like to personally thank all Mutual aid departments for their quick response and assistance.

ok, I was on the scene and noticed several things... one thing, which I was really happy with, being one of the tanker drivers.. when asked by the FD and YHPD, the local and state DPW sent in plows to keep the roads as clear as they could.. making our job safer for the apparatus and manpower... thank you to the plow operators for coming to our aid...

I used to check this site more when the incident threads were up to date. There was a time when it seemed like at three in the afternoon or three in the morning emtbravo had good, detailed posts about every fire or pin job (anything significant where mutual aid was called). I work in an office where I can't monitor the pager all day so it was really great to know what was going on in the county. No one ever posts these anymore so I don't bother checking this as my resource. Now I check lohud or my local paper instead.
For me, the threads always turned into one of the following...
1. Career vs. Volunteer arguments
2. Everyone patting each other on the back for no reason
Boooorrrrrriiiiiiinnnnnnnggggggg!
Plus, I kept getting put on moderator watch where my posts had to be approved before they went into the threads for having unpopular opinions. For a past volunteer who is now getting back into it again I have very anti-emergency services views because I think that the volunteer fire system here in Westchester is seriously broken and am in favor of consolidation. That said, just because my opinions are negative and unpopular does not mean that they are wrong. When I sent a note to Seth asking why I was being censored he did not even bother to respond. So i seldom waste my time anymore.

My guess is it's all the negativity that goes on here, as a matter of fact my gut tells me to shut up and not even post this. Seems that no matter what is said here someone puts a spin on it that its wrong or a waste of time or money or should be done differently, it's just not worth all the negativity to start a conversation here and for that I feel bad, I always enjoyed this site and still check it several times a day just to find out there is nothing new. That's just my two cents, but I'm sure someone will say I'm wrong.

My guess is it's all the negativity that goes on here, as a matter of fact my gut tells me to shut up and not even post this. Seems that no matter what is said here someone puts a spin on it that its wrong or a waste of time or money or should be done differently, it's just not worth all the negativity to start a conversation here and for that I feel bad, I always enjoyed this site and still check it several times a day just to find out there is nothing new. That's just my two cents, but I'm sure someone will say I'm wrong.

My guess is it's all the negativity that goes on here, as a matter of fact my gut tells me to shut up and not even post this. Seems that no matter what is said here someone puts a spin on it that its wrong or a waste of time or money or should be done differently, it's just not worth all the negativity to start a conversation here and for that I feel bad, I always enjoyed this site and still check it several times a day just to find out there is nothing new. That's just my two cents, but I'm sure someone will say I'm wrong.

The problem that presents itself is a paradox. Not enough fires per square mile to justify full-time, paid fire departments (and the costs of benefits, retirement, etc.)...but not so few fires that we can just count our losses and ignore the problem entirely. Your typical volunteer crew of 5 guys (or gals), 2 or 3 who have a bit of experience and a level head on their shoulders can typically handle your run-of-the-mill calls for food on the stove, a residential lock-out, or a car into the ditch. But when there is a fire every 2-3 years and that crew of 3 or 5 guys simply will not suffice. They do the best that they can and either one guy makes a good call and puts the line in the right place to make a stop...or, they chase the fire from window to window around the house until it eventually goes out (we have all seen it). Either way, the fires happen so infrequently that the public doesn't even realize that there is a problem. There were 5 fires in my town (with 3 independent departments) in 2013-2014 and all 5 of the buildings (one of which was one of the firehouse) were heavily damaged if not completely destroyed by fire.
I think there is a serious problem with the volunteer fire service (at least in my area). The chiefs, officers, and members of the fire departments are hiding their manpower shortages in an effort to protect their department's longstanding tradition. They are afraid that, if the public knows how bad things really are, then they will be uprooted from their firehouses and replaced with paid firemen. The chief will lose his spot as chief (along with his power and his car), the men will lose their "clubhouse," and the longstanding tradition of the department that they enjoy so much will be a thing of the past. They will have, in their eyes, failed as a department...
I read a lot of articles about manpower shortages or interviews with chiefs where they consistently say things like "we can always use more volunteers and manpower is low at present but we continue to respond to every alarm." To me, this means that the chief goes to every alarm and one or two guys to the firehouse during the day to get a utility or mini-attack out the door. I know of many fire departments around that "respond to every alarm" where the chiefs all sign on, then go to the firehouse, get a rig, sign that rig on as well, and they have 5 units on the road but only have 3 people (Shhhh...it's a secret!). Again, the chief is cloaking the manpower problem by saying that they never miss a response. And, to the county it looks like they have stellar responses when in fact they don't.
Another way that departments hide their manpower shortages is by saying that they have "50 members on the roster" when, in reality, only 3-5 are very active. If you look at the websites of some of these departments under the "members" section they have tremendous lists of firefighters; but half of these people haven't been seen in more than 5 years. On the department's website for my town (of which I was previously a member) there are a few people listed as members who are dead (NOT EVEN KIDDING!). So when the town supervisor or a concerned citizen looks at the website and see all those names they think everything is great, when, in reality, it is just a facade.
Lastly, I always hear chiefs in the paper saying "we averaged 15 people per alarm last year (month, week, etc.)". How many of those people are qualified interior firefighters? I know that when I was a member, the Chief would tell the fire district every month that the department "averaged 12 members per call the previous month." 4 of the 12 were fire police in their '80s who came to every call; 3-4 of the 12 were junior members; and the rest were the chiefs and a few stragglers per call. Again, this "average" number is an illusion to hide the fact that departments these days just don't cut it.
I think fire chiefs and fire departments are coming up with inventive ways to hide manpower shortages because the solution to the problem is not desirable to them. They are stalling because they think things will get better on their own (I can't tell you how many times I've heard someone say "manpower comes in waves") where, in reality, you might get a good year or two with the addition of a few good members but the fact of the matter is that manpower has been on a steady decline for years. The real solution to the problem is going to eventually be the addition of a few paid chauffeurs to get the trucks out during the day, then eventually going to full-time staffing during the day. Then the volunteers can take over at night when there are more guys around who come home from work. But, the longer the volunteer leadership can hold off the better because they get to hold on to their little men's club and the pride of 100 years of service by their organization. They don't want the intrusion of paid firefighters in their space, they don't want paid vs. volunteer battles, they don't want union issues, and they don't want to be thrown out. Firefighting is fun and those of us who love it really enjoy doing what we do. If they bring in career firefighters, the volunteers won't get to do what they love to do anymore, be firemen. So they have to hide it to hold on to their job. Hopefully, no one will have to lose their life to evince change like we see everywhere else on this job!

Well said. It has always been a mystery to me why in Westchester County, an area know for its wealth, an area of generally educated people that a volunteer system established in the 1940's to about 1960, is still allowed to operate. The department lines were drawn largely in the horse drawn hose carrier days and persist today.
I give nothing but kudos to the great volunteers both fire and ems.But folks, it is time to re evaluate.

My guess is it's all the negativity that goes on here, as a matter of fact my gut tells me to shut up and not even post this. Seems that no matter what is said here someone puts a spin on it that its wrong or a waste of time or money or should be done differently, it's just not worth all the negativity to start a conversation here and for that I feel bad, I always enjoyed this site and still check it several times a day just to find out there is nothing new. That's just my two cents, but I'm sure someone will say I'm wrong.

My guess is it's all the negativity that goes on here, as a matter of fact my gut tells me to shut up and not even post this. Seems that no matter what is said here someone puts a spin on it that its wrong or a waste of time or money or should be done differently, it's just not worth all the negativity to start a conversation here and for that I feel bad, I always enjoyed this site and still check it several times a day just to find out there is nothing new. That's just my two cents, but I'm sure someone will say I'm wrong.

My guess is it's all the negativity that goes on here, as a matter of fact my gut tells me to shut up and not even post this. Seems that no matter what is said here someone puts a spin on it that its wrong or a waste of time or money or should be done differently, it's just not worth all the negativity to start a conversation here and for that I feel bad, I always enjoyed this site and still check it several times a day just to find out there is nothing new. That's just my two cents, but I'm sure someone will say I'm wrong.

Funny how this article was released days before the vote on replacing the ladder. Seems like there is a supervisor stiring the pot again.

Hey guys here for an update-my father was responding to a full assignment on Monday when he suddenly collapsed. My brothers from WPFD used an AED to bring him back almost immediately. He went in for surgery yesterday and all went well. The doctors expect him to make a full recovery. Thank you for all your thoughts and prayers.

How can people out of state order these shirts? Is there an address we can send a check or cash to?

Let us also not forget the efforts and sacrifices of our brothers/sisters in blue and in EMS on that day along with that of the crew and passengers on Flight 93 that prevented further tragedy.

The city writes a check and a few months later the truck shows up. How does it work by you?

I didnt mean to startle u breeze im not that kind of person but everyone has there opinions.. I fully understand what your trying to say.. I guess different departments do it differently

You would think manpower wouldn't be a problem, the fire chiefs tout their number of active volunteers to be 110+ members. At least that's the numbers they tried to justify a massive new firehouse before the mayor trimmed it down. But it sounds like those numbers may be inflated a bit if Peekskill is relying on the career guys that much. That's pretty dangerous in a city as diverse as Peekskill. If there's a problem, the powers that be should address it. I guess it would make sense that the city apparently is looking to appoint a full time chief or commissioner.

Peekskill is a ticking time bomb

This probably looks great on paper to bean counters and politicians.
But what will they say when something "bad" happens at the wrong time and half your FD is tied up on ambulance calls?
What will they say when reality happens.

I know of career firefighters that refused to take any sort of medical and did not have to because of the interpretation of how the medical standard was written. They were only required to do a pulmonary function and fit test.

Several VAC's in Westchester (and Putnam and Dutchess too?) have an paid EMT to help cover calls. I've been listening to my scanner, and several agencies still have trouble getting crews. Why not just hire another paid EMT so you have a full crew? What is the point of one EMT when you have to page multiple times for another EMT or Driver and not get one?

I am truly fortunate to have been born in this great country and I am forever grateful for all that she has given me and my family. I stand proud to call myself an American and salute our flag and all it represents.