gamewell45

The problem is that to have a countywide fire dept you would need to change the NYS Constitution.. I doubt that will happen any time soon with the way things work in Albany..

Notwithstanding Albany, many volunteer departments in Dutchess have no desire to form a county FD.

While taxpayers can vote on a referendum to disolve the district, in many districts there most likely wouldn't be much support from the public in general; we have enough trouble getting the public out to vote very year for the commissioners election, getting them to vote to disband a district with in some cases, potential increased taxes isn't going to generate much support.

Walkers recall election has nothing to do with unions and the private sector, which is the topic of your thread.

The guy needs t change his dietary habits.

May the Sister Rest In Peace.

It'll never pass muster. It would be a violation of the First Amendment.

Dispatcher heard snoring while an emergency was happening... Hopefully the party that had the emergency made out alright on the delay..

http://video.msnbc.m...19230/#47519230

http://www.firefight...y/newsid/163309

Should have brought his CPAP machine with him.

If the Triborough Amendment is repealed, then so should be the Taylor Law that prohibits police and fire from striking. Maybe the threat of a police or fire strike would keep the political hacks at the negotiating table.

I highly doubt if you'll ever see the Taylor Law repealed; its a safety valve for the public's safety because a legal strike would have horrific consequenses for the public in general.

Having spent 19 weeks on strike one year I can tell you it gets old pretty quick once your savings run out and the thought of being permanently replaced by striking (scabs) workers only adds to the stress of being on strike. Many of us in the private sector who are union would love to have binding arbitration as opposed to having the right to strike.

Your source claims to be an independant research group, but they appaear to be more of a lobbying group.

As with any group, they have their agenda; what needs to be done in this case is to scrutinize the data provided and other impirical evidence and be given due weight. Can we really trust what the government tells us? How many times has the public been burned before by the government?

They claim that without the pension reform of tier 6 they claim we will bankrupt the system.

Whats a viable alternative? roll the dice and risk insolvency?

This last week our Mayor's citizen's budget committee asked how do we convince older firefighters to retire? They stated that the cost of older firefighters both becuase they are at top pay and because they have more injuries and take longer to heal than younger ones. When we looked at the new Tier 6 we find a huge penalty for each year under 63 that a person retires.

So to "save the pension system" (using this data), this group promoted tier 6 and we now have a lower upfront pension cost, but will skyrocket the disability pension cost in about 10 years.

I think its speculation at best. Especially since its never been tried before. Its quite possible that Tier VI might need fine tuning down the road; eitherway to remain complacent and rely on the present method could be a road to ruin financially for all involved.

Since the NYS Fire & Police pension system is fully funded (at 107%), is mandated in the state constitution and the state bills each FD or Municipality for each employee.

There is concern by the state in regards to New York's growing pension costs; concern's abound that it could become underfunded.

http://www.empirecenter.org/Special-Reports/2010/12/pensionexplosion120710.cfm

"The New York City Fire Pension Fund is financially the weakest of the eight public pension funds in New York State. Measured on an official actuarial basis, the Fire Pension Fund had only 56 percent of the assets needed to meet its liabilities as of June 30, 2008; using a market rate standard, its funded ratio was only 41 percent on the same date. Given the city funds’ investment losses, the fire fund’s condition has undoubtedly deteriorated in the past two years.

As of their reporting dates in 2009 (March 31 for New York State ERS and PFRS, and June 30 for NYSTRS), each of the state systems reported an actuarial funding ratio of slightly more than 100 percent. But recalculating these figures on a market value basis shows a much worse funding situation: TRS was just 60 percent funded, PFRS 58 percent, and ERS 56 percent. The discrepancy has two sources: sharp stock market declines in late 2008 and early 2009 meant that the market value of these plans' assets was far below their actuarial value. And changing to a market value discount rate significantly increases the plans' measured liabilities."

It never ceases to amaze me that someone will try to turn any discussion into a career vs. volunteer pissing match. This has absolutely nothing to do with career FD's or the NYS police and fire pension system.

LOSAP's are not managed by the State nor are they regulated by state statute so there is really no comparison. Who controls the LOSAP program?

Likewise it amazes me as well. If you want to discuss it with me further, PM me.

More importantly, a few years ago it was reported (by the NYS Comptroller) that many LOSAP programs maybe underfunded. That means that at some point 10-20-30 years from now the departments may need to raise large sums to cover personnel who are no longer providing service.

This could be true; some volunteer fd's have not properly funded LOSAP programs much like career fire departments whose pension funds might either be or become underfunded even tho' those members are no longer providing service as well. Its a two-way street when things aren't planned out properly.

Central database for LOSAP records? Ha!

Some FD's don't even report their training and fires/incidents to NYS. You think they're going to share financial information that may expose the real cost of their services?

Maybe your department; but mine is very open about record keeping and financial records. Try to be just a bit positive here

One of the true founders of Progressive Rock radio. May he rest in peace.

I'm not surprised that accidents involving volunteers greatly outnumber paid.

Volunteer firefighters greatly outnumber paid so of course the incidences would be correspondingly higher.

This was just another lame attempt to create animosity between the the vols and paid. Poor judgement behind the wheel is a reflection of the

individual regardless of compensation.

I concur with you 100% on this

Dick Clark, the worlds oldest living teenager has passed away at age 82 of a massive heart attack. For many of us who remember American Bandstand and New Years Eve in Times Square, NY, Dick was a regular.

May he rest in peace

http://abcnews.go.com/Entertainment/dick-clark-entertainment-icon-nicknamed-americas-oldest-teenager/story?id=16076252#.T48ZiJlSR5Y

Or the city should add a line Item per resident "fire/police tax" where they charge x.xx per person for the service and the money goes stright to that instead of the slush fund.

I'm not sure what the tax laws are when it comes to municipalities; I do know that if you live in a town, village that has a fire district (with a few exceptions to the rule) they have a separate taxing and those monies are only for use of the fire district expenses.

May the Brother Rest-In-Peace.

I wasn't sure where to put this topic so feel free to move it to where it belongs.

I felt this needed to be discussed openly with all of our brothers/sisters in a constructive way to hopefully prevent any future LODD's from MI's.

I for one, am extrememly overweight and have a vast family history of heart troubles and it scares me to see all of these firefighters passing from heart related issues, medical issues, or "Unknown" medical issues AFTER the call. How many LODD notices have I read lately with the firefighter passing at the station, or at home some time after the call has ended? How many have passed at the scene or at the station after responding for a call?

We need to step-up our efforts to increase physical fitness in the fire service and prevent each other from dropping with heart attacks and strokes. We need to encourage each other to improve our level of physical fitness, and start eating right.

You see grants being written for firefighting equipment, gear and trucks...but how about gym equipment for the station? It wouldnt take much to get a treadmill or bike, and some free weights at each station, Im even sure there are members out there who have the stuff lying around their homes that could store it at their station for all to use in an effort to keep everyone fit.

I want to loose weight, and I want to be there for my daughter when she graduates school, gets married and has kids of her own but its hard without help and encouragement. What does everyone else say about this issue?

Stay safe AND healthy.

You can do it just by watching what you eat and exercising; I lost over 60lbs in a 13 month period simply bye sticking to an easy diet (and there are plenty of them out there) and walking every day. You'll physically feel better and after a while you won't miss all the food you no longer eat. For me its nice being able to fit into clothes i haven't been able to wear in almost 20 years.

Well, if they absolutely must cut staffing to meet a budget gap, then they should do it correctly. Cutting the guys on the firehouse level only adds up to a few percentage points worth of savings, and overall, it hurts the community. Response times might increase. Fatalities might increase. Shuttering firehouses or reducing staffing levels doesn't solve the issue, especially since there will be the same issue again, inevitably, in the future. However, cutting duplicative management or reducing the salaries of those who make in excess of $185k per year as of the last publication date, would better serve the community-at-large and would be a better "bang" for the overall taxpayer buck.

Or they could raise property taxes enough to make up the deficit. You want services, you have to pay for them.

Recently, I was speaking with a Chief about a new initiave he's taking. He is concerned about Volunteers getting to the Staion and apparatus responding above the speed limit. There are too many volunteers getting killed responding to a scene or even the firehouse.

He tucks himself away in the primary response route, and takes the speed and safe driving of his members, from their POV to the Firehouse, and from the Firehouse to the scene.

Since he's not a certified Peace Officer, he can't give tickets, nor does he want to. Instead, he'll be posting a "Wall Of Shame" in his firehouse, as well as giving appropriate discipline.

*I can not say who or which department, as not to comprimise the operation.

I think the Chief ought to be worrying about doing his job and allow the police to do theirs.

Glad the officer is going to recover from the injuries sustained. People need to be a little bit more compassionate and not so cold hearted towards those who've sworn to protect them.

Even though both trucks are write-offs, fortunately no one was hurt.

Glad the Brothers were able to escape. Their Guardian Angels were definitely looking out for them!

RIP Bro'.

Unless you want to keep your head in the sand and adhere to some strict ideology, you have to see that the pension benefits allotted to prior generations of civil service employees are no longer sustainable in today's economic climate.

And, if we're going to be honest about it, those pension benefits were justified in order to attract persons into civil service as, then, civil service compensation was notably less than private sector compensation.

In the last 40 years however, civil service compensation has in many instances, increased to match or even exceed private sector compensation.

We now have civil service employees retiring with pensions twice the national average of private sector compensation after 20 or 25 years of service. That's persons in their mid 40's to 50 eligible to immediately receive pensions of anywhere from $50K to $100K annually for possibly another 30 years. Essentially, we are paying our civil service employees twice, once for 20 or 25 years of active service and again for 30 or more years in retirement. Look at the numbers for pension expenses, up 500 or 600 percent within the last decade and expected to increase exponentially into the future, if not reformed.

Unsustainable is the term being used and it is appropriate. It now affects municipal budgets which cut back on their civil service employees in order to meet their budgets. Five man engine companies get reduced to four, then three, then two and response protocols are re-written to accommodate the lack of personnel.

We do need a new tier which addresses the new and future economic reality. But any new tier should include the appropriate benefits to protect the life and health of those covered by it.

And I have to disagree with the statement that DiNapoli has nothing to gain from this issue. DiNapoli has consistently issued reports and opinions contradictory or contrary to independent audits and analysis of these issue. DiNapoli is just another politician with the next election and/or higher office in mind and he is just pandering to a significant voting block. The proposed new tier may not take effect for years, but the political effect is immediate.

I agree with you that the issue needs to be addressed. The public as a rule has little sympathy for public sector workers since pensions are mostly a thing of the past for those fortunate enough to work in the private sector. The popular mindset being that they don't have them, why should you have them?? The argument that you didn't make much money really doesn't hold water anymore in their eyes. We can always point the finger at cities that they should have done this or done that with the money, but the long as short of it is that in many cases the pension funds in some cities are woefully underfunded and the cities have to address the immediate concern at the expense of staffing unfortunately. The cities are unwilling to add further tax burden on the public; the public will squawk about it and none of the politicians are willing to risk being voted out of office by angry taxpayers.

I think the Tier VI will most likely go forward in some modified form. If too much resistance is put up and the voters get fed up enough, you could end up having the laws changed radically to the point where you end up with a 401.k as opposed to a pension or even worse, jobs reduced further or privatization of public services.

Ideally both sides will be able to hammer out an agreement on this matter to the satisfaction of everyone involved.