NurseMedic

Your assertion was that the PD is trying to perform an FD function and we were merely pointing out that PD performed these services first in many communities thereby refuting your point as it could be argued that the FD's started to perform.
What in the emergency services is based strictly upon need? There are many more duplicative resources especially in Westchester County. Nobody suggested that history and tradition dictate our roles; we merely highlighted a contrarian viewpoint. On what standards should we base these needs? I wish we did more needs assessments to determine what was needed vs. what is popular or more cool.
Having been one of the officers to which you're referring, I will argue that the WCPD ESU could perform most extrications very well regardless of the unit staffing. The tool is really a one-person job anyway and additional resources/support could always be requested. One of the toughest extrications I ever worked, I worked with an EMS supervisor from a commercial EMS and not the FD.
I'll counter your hostage argument with what happens when FD is on a fire and a pin job comes in or vice versa?
I don't think they're competing and the 289 Nep scaffolding job proves that point. PD and FD worked well together.
Yup, that's who I meant.
SWAT may be one function of ESU but ESU generally performs many other services besides SWAT. The ESU or CIU trucks in Westchester County do much more than just SWAT. LAPD SWAT is just that, SWAT.
We've discussed this at length in other threads and I think the consensus was no, they shouldn't all be cross-trained.
What differences are you referring to?
Your initial post was construed by many, myself included, to be rather critical of cops in NY. I, and others, have responded to dispute your assertions and have done so factually and respectfully. The discussion has also morphed from a comparison of police in Texas and New York to who should provide rescue services in Westchester County and it is slanted against existing PD units.
I wanted to give you a negative rep point because I don't think the initial post articulated your position well and when someone has to start it with a disclaimer that you're not being critical it is generally because they are.
If you want to discuss regional differences in law enforcement let's do that but let's not do so while simultaneously insinuating that cops in NY are somehow less than their peers in Texas.
Finally, your last remark seems to be hlghly inflammatory. What exactly do you mean with that remark?

There are differences in many things as you move from region to region in the United States; income, accents, history, culture, politics, demographics, etc., etc., etc. The question you raise is not merely applicable to law enforcement. There are vast differences between New York and Texas. I don't think the differences are as great as you believe nor do I think you properly articulated your argument without disparaging cops in NY and the northeast.
I think there is something to be said for the anti-police, anti-government sentiment in the northeast being a contributing factor to your supposition. I think as the country tried to become more politically correct and public service changed from being a calling to a secure job with benefits, we lost some of the service focus that contributed to law enforcement being what it used to be. There are still many hard-chargers in civil service but there are now an equal number of deadbeats just studying for promotional exams with no concept of the job and/or using the stability to advance their education for their next job.
You're flat out wrong about some things. Cops in ESU aren't trying to be firefighters and who says that rescue is a fire function? ESU predates many of the FD rescue resources in Westchester County. Yonkers E-rigs of the 80's were the first paramedics in the city and had the only extrication equipment for many years. The County PD ran an ESU that provided extrication services all over the county before a lot of FD's got their own hurst tools. ESU is not the same as SWAT either. The LAPD runs SWAT but they don't do most of the things that ESU cops do - it is an apples and oranges comparison. In Jersey City, extrications are performed by EMS not fire or PD. White Plains has a police / fire special operations command that works collaboratively.
Duplicating resources? Are you kidding me? You really think that ESU in the couple of cities that have them in Westchester are the duplicative resources and squandering the funding that exists for emergency services. Hmmm, the 59 fire departments, 43 police departments, 60 or so school districts are definitely not duplicative. Who says that EMS is a fire function? PD is an first responder and in many places they are the only BLSFR that responds. We've already covered in other threads that BLSFR is not strictly limited to PD or FD exclusively.
OK, who decides what the core responsibilities are? What do you do when an agency can't/won't/doesn't fulfill it's core responsibilites? Competition exists on many levels in public service and it can be healthy. There are plenty of examples of intra-disciplinary rivalries that are unhealthy; you're broad sweeping generalizations about inter-disciplinary relationships and responsibilities are way off base.
Pity there isn't a negative rep button anymore. Comparing patrol cops in Texas with ESU cops in NY or asserting that certain functions don't have cross-over between disciplines is way off base. There should be collaboration and less division and that's not strictly a PD/FD thing.

So, I hear what your saying. But I don't really follow your logic.
Your originally premise was PD's should be doing police work and FD's should be doing fire/rescue work? (Feel free to correct me if I am misquoting you.)
So, in theory, criminal arson cases should be handled by the PD. But if the FD arson guys are as good as PD investigators, they should keep the case, right? By that logic, if a city PD ESU is as good as the FD in terms of their rescue work, they they can continue doing the rescue work???
I think it's either one or the other, but you can't have it both ways.

Basically, you looked for it, watched it and then decided all by yourself that nobody else should. When you get a chance, let me know what I shouldn't be allowed to see tomorrow.

Nice to see. As Chief Flynn, ALS, Myself and others have been trying to bring people around to this.
Because we spend our money on too many trucks, too many stations, etc. We have a number of depts that cover 1 square mile with 3 engines, a tower ladder, a rescue and 3 chiefs and they are only handling a couple 100 calls per year (1 or 2 and actual fire). All of those counties cover larger areas with fewer rigs, but they are fully staffed, properly trained and backed up within less time than it takes for some of the VFD's here to get a crew out the door. Also how good do you get when you only do a few calls each year?
Great so now what? Just let everyone suffer, good planning. Lets sope calling exterior only personnel firefighters. Lets call them helpers. Its great that they can pack some hose and change an SCBA bottle or make a hydrant to free up real firefighters. Oh wait, they can't or won't do that. How much of your tax dollars are going to them? Your taxes paid for their turnouts, medicals, LOSAP, and a host of other perks and MY TAXES and those of all the career communities paid for the training that DES is providing for them. Oh police officer please remove this buff to the other side of the fire line, he is not one of us.
Well said. So the volunteers that do not go into the fire building do not like the state law that requires enough people outside who are willing to go in, how ironic.The morale issue has been a problem there for over 8 years. The career firefighters were included in the Westchester Special Operations Task Force and were trained in Yonkers to be Hazmat/WMD Technician and were going to become squad 7. But after completing all of the training and getting federal money to fund the equipment, the commissioners determined that having the ability to respond to a chemical emergency would hurt the dept moale to the point that they ordered the career staff to drop out. Silly of me to think that when an elected official swore on a bible that they would do what is in the best interest of the community, they would actually keep politics out. Since these vacancies occured over 7 years and most during the best economic times we have seen in decades, I suspect this has nothing to do with the recession. Its a very tough sell when you can not even convince the members that they have a problem when a department with 6 frontline rigs can not handle a house fire without calling the world to help. Consolidation is not a temporary fix, its a long term solution to a growing problem.

Sorry...but the posts that were in violation should have been removed and that person banned from the site.
Also...sorry you are "tired of" some of the things you stated...but facts are facts and many of us who are tired of the same old BS day in and day out are proving why it is so. Not all of us and I certainly can speak for myself post anything related to work related issues I encounter based on ego, turf wars or company vs company BS as mentioned. I for one don't work for a company...I work for a damn good department I'm proud of and don't have to worry about someone out bidding me...but I find it offensive that the entire forum was taken down.
Whoever posted some sort of threat...you need to have your head examined and grow up. While your at it find another profession to toil in because you are certainly not a colleague of mine. How's that for facts.

I second that motion...
If it was deleted I'd like to know by which moderator...and for what reason.
In fact I dare anyone who read that thread to find one bash or inappropriate comment that was in it and post it.
I'm all for having a positive site but if your gonna have forums about emergency services discussions then either expect some things to come up that aren't going to be liked by everyone or rename them the touchy feely post only good cake eating stories threads.
Either that or let me know this is how its going to be...cause I've invested 3000 posts and several years into this site for this to start happening.