Dinosaur

I just have one question that the video just didn't answer for me. Why did the brothers stand at the foot of the driveway with the flaming fuel running toward them? Was there terrain or other obstruction that would have prevented them from moving out of the way of that hazard? From the video, and it may be just the camera angle, it looked like the fire rolled right down the hill to the nozzleman.

Three chief's cars? How about when there are 10-12. Primary department, mutual aid, coordinators, etc. This doesn't even take into account all the ex-chiefs, deputy chiefs, and others with vehicles.

Why do we feel compelled to put firefighter above and in front of all else? A tragic accident happens and we focus not on the victim and his family but the fact that he was a member of a fire department. While volunteer fire associations are important what makes them more important than the victims real job or membership in any other voluntary association like a library, rotarian, elk, VFW, etc.?

In Dutchess if you call 911 you get the closest cop. It may be a local, a deputy sheriff or trooper. What difference does it make if you meet a different cop at an EMS call? Who cares? There is no County FD in Westchester so the likelihood that you'll see a town push for the county is pretty far-fetched. On the other hand, how many FD's are there in Mt Pleasant? 5? 6? 7? Combine them all into one big department, merge the districts, pool the resources (including $$$) and you'll have one kick-a** department with a lot of clout. The new tax cap in NYS is going to change things a lot faster than 20 years.

You're absolutely right. There is too old too. Not just for driving but for firefighting in general but that's for another thread. Of course if the politicians have their way all cops and firemen will work until their 75 so it may become more of an issue.

In a word, NO. If you can't rent a Toyota Corolla until you're 25 you shouldn't be driving emergency vehicles when you're less than 21. Judgement, experience, knowledge simply aren't there.

ONE firefighter for rehab? How effective is that going to be? 42 minutes from request to "responding" and then another 17 minutes between the time a team says they're responding and they're actually responding? WTF? If it takes an hour to get a dive team out why bother? Just let the police recover the bodies. When are we going to stop representing that we have resources that we don't. If the response time is an hour it's a recovery team not a rescue team.

Because apparatus or vehicles can be assigned to training or a public relations detail for a few hours one day doesn't make it non-essential. There is preventitive maintenance and other service that takes vehicles out of service for periods of time as well. Your point can just as easily be made about front-line apparatus leaving district to another county for a parade. How about Lake George? How many pieces of front line fire apparatus make the annual journey to Lake George for an entire weekend? Does that mean that those trucks are non-essential? Is there duplicate, redundant or down-right useless apparatus in the metro area? Absolutely. I don't think a lot of it was at Playland yesterday though.

All our professions involve risk however none of them expects, or should permit, you to take chances with your own life. There is a differnece. My department managed the risk best it could so I knew that I wasn't putting my guys out in harms way without the best training, equipment, and management avialable. NFPA standards were one way we knew that we were on the right track. Saying that NFPA is a shield for cowards pretty much says that 99% of the fire service are cowards and that isn't true at all. NFPA is a valuable resource that most chief officers use regularly. I know I did. And if you went jumping into 55 degree water you'd just become another victim yourself. Is that the answer?

You're simplifying your example to make it suit your argument. Yes, Mrs. Smith calls 911 and gets a response. In a full-time, career department she gets (using your example) two engines and a truck with 10-12 FF's and at least a couple of officers in six minutes all of whom are fully-qualified interior firefighters capable of performing all of the duties expected of them at a fire scene. In the volunteer response, depending on the time of day and day of week you get two engines and a truck with a couple of drivers, a couple of exterior FF, a couple of interior FF and maybe (if they're not at work) an officer in 12-15 minutes. I'm not saying all agencies have this problem. I'm saying that there is no "standard" and there are people running around calling themselves firefighters who aren't. They can't fight fires and they have minimal training. I know that not everyone has LOSAP but those that do receive compensation so there is a cost. It is disingenuous to claim that volunteer FD's with LOSAP or other compensation to members do not have personnel costs. I moved to a volunteer community and almost 1/3 of their budget is for LOSAP. That is just one example but nonetheless, it is a cost. What are the fitness standards in the volunteer fire service? Again, I'm not saying that all career guys are Joe Buff but there is a standard and they have to meet that standard to be hired and to complete their training. Some jobs require them to maintain it too. There is no comparable standard in the volunteer sector. Please don't confuse me with someone who is anti-volunteer. I'm just anti-hypocrisy.

I wish your statement was true. There are many differences besides payroll and pensions and they were like a cancer in my department for years creating animosity between the paid guys and volunteers. I know that they still exist today so you're either naive or in denial. Disparate levels of training, widely varying levels of commitment, poor accountability of volunteers, varying levels of fitness, etc. are all differences between paid and volunteer. You cannot compare FF 1 class to a career academy and claim they're equal. And just to be accurate, there are pension costs in a lot of volunteer agencies. LOSAP programs cost money and are the volunteer equivalent of a pension. We should demand equal training and promote more combination departments to insure that those who need it can get it. The people stuck in the anti-career or anti-volunteer camps are nothing but problems.

For FD members with duplicative, redundant and extravagant apparatus, equipment, and stations to be so critical for the painting of some police cars is really disingenuous. The PD has as much right to paint their vehicles as the FD's do. What's the difference?

Want to solve the problem about inadequate daytime responses in VFD's and VAC's? Dispatch every fire call as a working structure fire and every EMS call as an extrication. Voila, problem solved. You'll be tripping over people. God I'm glad I retired!

Didn't officially implement it, huh? Is that because it is asking for trouble? How about sending the cops to check and advise if there's a fire. Wait, we've complained about that over the years and hate that idea. So instead of sending the cop who's already dressed, in the car, and on the road we'll wait for someone to get out of bed, dressed, drive to the fire house, and then drive to the scene to find out if it is really a fire. God I'm glad I retired. Stupid policies like this are going to cost somebody their lives one day. As bnechis has said: solve the problem. If you want to be a firefighter you have to take the BS as well as the real "jobs". Do it 100% or don't do it at all.

You know this is what I hate about the fire service. Which way do we want it? Do you want to be dedicated professional firefighters who don't receive a paycheck or do you want to be well intentioned neighbors who may or may not be able to put out the fire or rescue a loved one who don't receive a paycheck. It can't be both ways. You can't demand equal treatment on the one hand while you're saying don't they understand we're volunteers and don't want to show up at BS calls. Are they clueless or is your FD clueless about public relations. If people think that the FD is staffed it's your job to tell them otherwise. I'm so tired of the complaints about being treated differently because you're volunteer and then demanded that you be treated differently because you're volunteer. Do it right, do it professionally, do it promptly and it won't matter whether you're paid or not.

It will definitely affect buffs if they're responding with the FD (or EMS/PD). If they're not responding with the FD, they shouldn't be inside the perimeter and will have the same access as everyone else. This should also make dealing with non affiliated types wearing turnouts easier. If they're not part of the FD response, they don't get access.

I don't know about the inferior thing but there are differences in both environments that create advantages and challenges. Access, water supply, exposures, etc. all change the dynamics and we need to be ready to respond to both.

What do you base this on? If this is the case why is there a national FF training curriculum? Using your logic there should be different training programs for urban FF, suburban FF, and rural FF but there aren't. Being a firefighter is dangerous no matter where you do it. In 2009 there were more fatalities among volunteer FF than career so your theory is wrong. According to the USFA, for the decade 2000-2009, there were more volunteer FF deaths than career FF deaths. http://www.usfa.dhs.gov/downloads/pdf/publications/ff_fat09.pdf Here's the problem. You think you're good enough the way you are and you don't need to train to the standard but that's dangerous and ill advised. You should always strive to be better and the training standards need to be consistent. Where do you draw the line? Ventilation training? Search training? FAST/RIT training? LDH training? What do you cut because you don't need to be a FDNY guy? So FDNY guys should learn how to bailout from a dangerous environment but you don't have to? Try telling that to your insurance company and see what they say. If you're going to create classes of FF with urban career being 1st class and suburban career being 2nd class and suburban/rural volunteer being 3rd class you don't need a single set of standards. But I'm sure that we don't want different classes because we've been fighting for too long to be considered equals. All mechanics can change a tire. A NASCAR mechanic can do it in 10 seconds. A regular mechanic can do it in 10 minutes. Does this mean they got different training or they just drill differently? They drill differently.

Well heres a big part of the problem. The mayor isnt allowing dissenting opionons from the FD to be presented. If the existing "legal framework" isnt changed there will never be any changes. At least no meaningful changes. Instead of all the my plan their plan nonsense why dont you decide what will be the best FD for all of Stamford. That and the side by side comparison requested would help a lot of us see this for what it is rather than what some outspoken members want us to see.

Nobody should be starting any backfires or burnouts without being properly trained to do so. How many structural firefighters have the wildland firefighting training and experience to do this safely and effectively? Improperly starting one can cause an even bigger problem and put crews in harms way. Brush fire 101 = L180, S130, S131, S133, S190, FFT1, FFT2. Plus experience!

Sonny, you have a lot to learn. About a lot of things. It is clear you dont give a crap...about the facts. Size of a district and call volume do factor in to the numbers and types of vehicles required. You claim that it costs 20,000 to keep 10 emergency vehicles on the road. I bet the savings from not using an engine on every EMS run is more than 20,000 so theyre actually saving money. That included the chiefs cars and the chiefs do much more than just EMS calls too. I doubt the fire district pays $4.15 a gallon. Theyre tax exempt and probably buy on state contract or bid it like every other municipality so the cost is far less.

Damn straight FF can be held liable for their actions. Liability can reach far above and far below the chief or IC whatever their rank. From a legal standpoint a lot of people can be liable so the prudent course is training, training, training and adherence to your agency policies and procedures. They're going to ask what your ventilation policy is and ask you to produce it. When you say you dont have one theyre going to make you look stupid or incompetent or both on the stand even though most agencys probably dont have a written policy on ventilation.

http://www.health.state.ny.us/nysdoh/ems/training.htm first link the page lists all agencies in the state that can teach courses

Thats one BLS fly-car right? So the FD side of the house responds with a BLS "utility" (fly-car), the medic responds in a fly-car, and the VAC (or EMS side of the house) also responds with a fly-car? No wonder it takes so long to get an ambulance out. Maybe they should scrap the VAC fly-car and make sure their transporting vehicles can get to the calls with the two other fly-cars there. My agency used to have to babysit patients waiting for transport because of similar problems. Everybody wants a "fly-car" but the real work is done and the real value is in the ambulances!

Im trying to figure out what the fire service costs each year? What is your department annual total budget?