Stench60

Here's another question although I don't know if it qualifies as trivia since I don't know the answer myself. Mr. Moderator, it's your decision.

What is the oldest firehouse in westchester still in current use as an actual firehouse?

It would have to be older than 1906 which is the year Port Chester HQ. was built.

Great job ferreting this one out, Lord knows The New Republic website is not a regular stop for me, I've always been partial to National Review myself.

Since the magazine is one of the house organs of the left/ Democratic Party it makes very interesting reading between the lines. It manages to bring up that great feel good failure of the Clinton Administration; the COPS program. The program that neither gave you a 100,000 additional police nor a reduction in crime. The crime control techniques pioneered by Bill Bratton, Jack Mapple and spearheaded by Rudy Giuliani, the so-called "broken window" theory along with a decade of get tough prosecutions and sentencing accomplished a hell of a lot more than the unlamented COPS program.

The fact is while some cities did not participate at all in the program (I believe New Rochele was one) because at the end of federal funding (3 years or thereabouts) they would be stuck with the additional officers and all the expenses that went with them, most PD"s did participate in some form or another. The catch was that 95% of the time the money was used to temporarily fund additional officers until the money ran out , these officers then filled the posistions of officers who had resigned, been fired or retired. This resulted in a net increase of zero in the size of the department and its' budget.

The same would take place with the fire service, if not even more so. Of course the article quotes the NFPAs' " call " for 85,000 new firefighters, and also the IAFFs' same cry. What isn't stated is the fact that the IAFF packed the NFPA meeting to force through their agenda. And of course every " municipal attorney" is running scared.

"even if a career firefighter is much more valuable because he's better trained and faster to the scene than a volunteer. "

I won't even dignify that quote with a response.

I honestly believe that the general mebership of the IAFF has been sold down the river by their leadership. Nothing comes out of this magazine unless it receives the imprimatur of the Democratic National Committee. What's being said is, hey we've made all these promises in public but we know your rank and file aren't voting for the Democratic ticket anyway so all that money isn't going to be wasted on firefighters or fire programs but on things that really matter to the hardcore base of the Democratic Party ie. AFDC, Section 8, affirmative action programs, enviromentalist nonsense etc. etc. etc. Oh, and we’ll make sure Harold Schaitberg gets a nice cushy job for his undying loyalty.

These are my opinions, whether you agree or disagree, if I got you to sit down and think for a minute, I did my job.

Anyone interested in the volunteer companies of the part of Westchester absorbed by NYC, go to NYFD.com and find the our history link. It will give you not only the " Bronx" depts. but also Manhattan, Brooklyn, Queens and Staten Island.

It's an eye opener for people who don't know the early history of the fire service in Westchester. So many depts. just forgotten by us today. Places that are only sections or neighborhoods of the city that were once thriving towns and villages each with their own fire departments and now forgotten histories.

Anyone interested in the current volunteer companies in NY, The firemens association of the City of New York has or had a web site until recently.

Reliance E & H was originally formed as Clinton Engine co.

The name was changed in 1874 to Reliance it operated from

1823 to 1874 as Clinton Engine Co., No.1 

1874 to 1886 as Reliance Engine Co., No. 1

1886 to  Present as Reliance Engine & Hose Co., No. 1 

Washington H. & L. Co., No. 2  of  Ossining was originally organised as Washington Engine Co., No. 1

A toughie, but I still believe Ossining takes the cake on this one. The only question would be concerning the departments of old lower Westchester *( The Bronx). While the dates that they were absorbed by the FDNY are well known, the early records of these departments have for the most part all disappeared. If any department were older than Ossining my money would have to be on The Mott Haven FD which merged in 1856 with the Melrose FD to form the Morrisania FD. The current "big city departments" of Westchester weren't organised until the mid 1850's to the early 1860's.

* FYI/ Lower Westchester County was absorbed by the County of New York in two land grabs beginning in 1874 and then again in the late 1890's and cosolidation in 1901 into the City Of Greater New York.

And the Answer is...........................

Washington H&L Co., No. 2 of Ossining, Organised 1813/ Ladder 42

Followed by Reliance E&H Co., No. 1 of Port Chester Organised 1823/ Engine 60

After that I believe Columbian Eng. Co., No. 1 of Peekskill is next and don't quote me on this one but I believe they were organised in 1828.

As to the 1930- 1940 question I believe the Purchase FD was organised in the 1930's

Great post and something I've preaching for years.

These new construction techniques are amazing in their propensity for failure, although the architects and engineers will never tell you that. If you have any oppurtunity pick up Frank Brannigans books and articles, they can be a bit dry but the information is priceless. Also Vinny Dunn, who is a fount of knowledge in construction and collapse.

Also when your out and about look at the construction going on in your area, if your out in your rig stop by and walk through ( check with the chief first) as buildings are being constructed. You may not be able to do anything to stop the way these traps are being built, but you can sure as hell know when to get out or stay out.

Francis Brannigan " Know your buildings!"

The driver of the ladder dispatches the call, turns over the phones and radios and then responds to the alarm.

The word on the grapevine is that the Battalion 15 trailer will be housed here in Port Chester.

As to equipment, towing etc. that remains to be seen. We have had Decon training here due to being a reception center for Indian Point. I know quite a bit of this, if not all of the program, is being done in house by the county.

Not as crazy as you think. In this day and age when every Tom, Dick and Harry is e-mailing and posting signs in the firehouse to watch for stolen equipment and turnouts who's to say that the terrorists are just not going out and buying the stuff? In all honesty when was the last time Galls or any of the other suppliers asked for some type of proof of affiliation when you purchased something? They only care about their sales figures at the end of the day.

I'm sure that DHS and DOD had a very good reason to raid the facility, also don't forget they also sell police supplies ( Body Armor! ) which would be of great use to your friendly neighborhood jihadist.

I really didn't want to get involved in this discussion, but now that it has been seperated from the 60 control issue it's a little less volatile.

The misconception is that Port Chester operates a "Box" system, it doesn't. With the exception of certain places of high risk ( schools, hospitals, care facilities) which receive a full department response, the vestiges of the box system were eliminated in the mid 1990's.

What is incorrectly called a "box" is actually a company call or dual company call as the case may warrant. The company call merely informs the department which two engine companies are to respond to the alarm. The system is based on the dispatch of the first due engine to the that particular address ( district engine ) as well as the duty engine for that month which is rotated on a monthly basis amongst the 5 engine companies and responds throughout the village as well as to mutual aid and stand-bys. Along with the two engine companies a ladder, the rescue and either one of the emergency trucks ( E-58 or E-59) is also dispatched. Also, from 7am to 7pm, you will have the RBFD dispatched if the call is within the village of Rye Brook.

To use the term box is to mean a specified location that corresponds to a specified box number. In Port Chester two "box numbers", as some have called them, that are exactly the same can dispatched to locations literally miles apart.

I hope that this explained the situation a little clearer for those who don't know the PC system, if not I'll try to answer your questions.

Mr. Maeder would have been Captain of Engine Co. No. 5 of the FDMV. There is no "Westchester Volunteer Fire Dept.", I'll try to contact someone from the members assoc. down there to see if they have any information for you.

It does seem by the news article to be an interesting story.

Truly a shame, but as you say once E-One purchased them they went downhill almost immediately.

I don't blame corporate america for this one, I blame the fire service for buying that garbage that's sold by E-One. I'd be the first to admit that "they don't build them the way used to" and you can't expect the kind of workmanship you had prior to 1970 ,but let's face facts, everything that E-One ever built that I had the misfortune to either work with or observe was a lemon.

Unfortunately, and I can speak from experience at my work place, the electric company will 99.999999% of the time claim an "act of god" or some other such nonsense to absolve themselves of any type of liability. Calling the power company service center is absolutely useless, I honestly believe they are all,including the supervisors, preprogrammed to say no; it was beyond our control. These are the same dimwits who had no idea what I was speaking about when I began talking about dropped phases and open neutrals, only that it was not their fault.

The really tough part is then having to replace your own equipment and then file a claim with your homeowners insurance. just watch your premiums go up after aclaim.

The worst is for the young guy or gal or a renter, who having just started out, don't have any type of insurance and are left holding the bag.

As to brotherFFs' comment on the surge protectors, he is absolutely right. The surge protector you buy in the hardware store or Cosco isn't going to do much of anything for that size of a surge. The protection that you would need would be cost prohibitive. The best advice that I can give if you are in an area prone to these problems is to unplug what your not using at the time. I know this won't help the fridge or the boiler, but it can save you from having to replace a computer or TV.

I believe that we all need to realise that the PC/RB arrangement is, as has been pointed out, not mutual aid. However it is also not automatic aid or response. The Port Chester FD is the primary response FD in Rye Brook at all times.

I apologise if I led this discussion in an unintended direction. I was simply trying to point out the drawbacks if RB were to go on it's own in it's current configuration.

Chris498, you're not a fool.... just someone with a different opinion that you are perfectly entitiled to have.

As to mutual aid, I would be the last person to say, and I did point out in my last post that the system works, that mutual aid is not working. The problem is with politicians and bureaucrats who see mutual aid as a panacea, that knowing that the next community that is willing to provide itself with outstanding fire protection will provide help at the drop of a hat as soon as it's called for so they can operate their fire service on the cheap.

[-X Not even close to a million, and I'm sure they've done the math and figured out that it will cost them a hell of alot more than what they're paying PC to have a properly staffed dept. in place.

As to mutual aid, are you suggesting that they create another Mt. Vernon situation? In all honesty Mutual Aid works perfectly, it's internal problems that create the issues. Why should PC supply fire protection for nothing when it's being paid for it now?

Was967,

Maybe I'm dating myself but I can remember going to see " Live and Let Die" with Roger Moore as James Bond with my father, brother and several cousins at that drive in Whitestone.

If I remember correctly it was torn down in the early "80's for the current multiplex.

Thanks for bringing back a real great memory.

PS. Anybody remember the old Pix Movie Theater in White Plains, always had the 2nd and 3rd releases of Disney movies.

pps. for you kiddies, rereleases were the pre-video way of seeing a movie that was not going to be shown on TV, but that's another story.

The firehouse WILL be manned at night by the Port Chester FD.

Rye brook works a 7am to 7pm shift in their quarters responding with either their ladder or engine depending on the nature of the alarm.

Port Chester provides 24/7 full coverage to Rye Brook as we have for the last 186 years, with one short, regretable lapse.

Mellor Hose No. 3's 74 Maxim is now in Alexandria NH, where it joins The Brooksville E& H Co. , No.5 1957 Mack and Reliance E&H Co., No. 1 1958 Ward LaFrance

It's become a retirement home for our old engines.

Trivia regarding the 74 Maxim... The engine was placed in service at the June 30, 1974/ July 1, 1974 Gullivers fire when Mellors 1956 Ahrens Fox was stripped of it's equipment and taken out of service. The switch was planned for that day and that was the place to do it as they would end up on scene for quite a while. Also this was the first non Ahrens Fox that Mellor had as a machine since 1926.

Chris 498 is partially right when he states that

It is difficult, I think to catagorize exactly what a patrol truck was

Some Patrols were defacto engine companies, others heavy rescue or Fire Police wagons or some combination thereof. To answer the original question though, I believe the Patrol designation began as a catch all radio identifier for all the Fire Police and Fire Patrol ( Salvage ) company rigs in the county.

Do any of the patrol companies in the county still do salvage work? In this day and age where everyone preaches " customer service " as some kind of new concept it's interesting to note that the first Fire Patrol Companies in Westchester (Port Chester, Mount Vernon, New Rochelle, Sleepy Hollow, Yonkers) were all organized in the 1880's to provide security and salvage to our fellow citizens.

* an interesting note for you history buffs Mount Vernon Fire Patrol Co., No. 1 eventually evolved and became Engine Co., No. 6

FF402, in answer to your question of who Harry Howard was, he was the second to last volunteer Chief Engineer of New York City Fire Department. He was elected to office in 1857 and served until 1860 when he was unable to run for reelection due to a debilitating paralysis he suffered due to over exertion in his duties.

He was considered THE firemans fireman, and was instrumental in the formation of Port Chesters' Hook & Ladder Co. in 1858, donating the equipment to furnish the hand drawn ladder the members had purchased as outdated equipment from NYC.

He eventually ended up with several fire companies named for him: Harry Howard Hose Co. No. 55 NYFD, Harry Howard Hook & Ladder Co., No. 11 NYFD, Harry Howard Hook & Ladder Co., No. 1 PCFD and Harry Howard Hose., No. 12 YFD. Also, since he was one

of the great promoters and a very substantial and the first benefactor of the Firemens' Home in Hudson, the home now sits on Harry Howard Ave. in the City of Hudson in his honor. There is also an intersection in lower Manhattan ( for the life of me I can't remember which) named Harry Howard Square with plaque and all. His working helmet and official city portrait are still kept by the Harry Howard in Port Chester.

If you have ever been to the NYC Fire Museum, the LARGE painting of the fire chief in front of you as you step out onto the second floor is of Harry running to a fire.

It was only about 9-10 years ago that the last member of Harry Howard of Yonkers passed away, certainly would've been interesting to speak to him.

I hope someone can answer the question I have ( a YFD history buff most likely ) Why did the Yonkers company take the Harry Howard name?

A quick couple of notes on this topic. Also, please keep in mind that this is my first post on EMTBRAVO.

First to the post that complained of all the re-lettering that would have to be done on the equipment, this is why departments are told by the county that the Radio Identifier numbers are not to be lettered on any equipment whether apparatus, hose, hand tools or turnout gear. The numbers we use on the radio merely differentiate the various Engine Co. No.1 , Engine Co., No 2, Ladder Co., No. 1 etc... in each department from the rest of the Engine Co., No. 1's etc... in the county. These county numbers can be changed at any time ( see the departments that used to have quads, quints and patrols) to what the county chooses.

Secondly, the issue of the county actually operating a county wide fire service is not even woth the time and effort to discuss. It Is against NYS Law for a county to operate a fire department. There is absolutley zero chance of that being changed in anything approaching the forseeable future. We should concentrate our efforts on attainable goals, not What If scenarios best left to fiction writers.

If I got you to pause and think, whether you agree with me or not I've done what I set to do.