Atv300

Hey I don't wanna see the FID go but here is the deal the state government has put us in this position look at their own issues with the OFPC. And i am sorry but to say pressure your coordinators, the coordinator staff and CC-1 sounds to me like with what they were dealt with did an amazing job no one got laid off come on thats got to be a major hats off to them. So if you are to pressure anyone start with the politicians state and fed level.

As far as fire investigation goes it has been changing along with the voile as a whole (please this is not an attack just my opinion that its hard for everyone) even the FID team has a hard time assembling now I hear it all the time 3 4th dispatch. Remember these guys need a life too its not cheep to live around here anymore so they need jobs and my hats off tho them for there great service when they can in between work and everything else.

I really hate to say this but look at it this way New York state law dose not require any certification to be a fire investigator just that its up to the IC to Determine the origin of the fire. That dose mean the IC is allowed to bring in recourses if the fire seems suspicious I.E. OFPC FID or in our case before the DC FID ect. and if the chief holds custody of the incident there can be a hand off. Once again its not an attack just stating some facts the FID teams county or state have amazing training and are a great recourse.

If there is no identifing markes or way of identifing the patient I don't see a problem with taking pics of the car and scene. As far as patient care its good practice not to show it. I could be wrong but once againg if there is no identifing means in the pic I don't think that's issue in reality. But I am speaking as far as in house wise training and such the view to the public should be curbed look at some of the stuff the news puts on.

The answers? Seriously? Are you interested in training or in a certificate for your wall? If it is the latter, there are many other online courses you can complete.

As for the 300 and 400 courses, they are not not offered online, they are both classroom only format and one was just held in Westchester County two weeks ago. You can check the SOEM website for additional dates but I'm not aware of anymore in the Hudson Valley in the immediate future. There are a couple upstate and on Long Island before the end of the year but that's about it.

http://www.semo.stat...ng/calendar.cfm

Well said I didn't even see the looking for answers.

I am almost positive that you can only do those classes in a class room setting. I myself wish there would be one held in my area.

I do not know about all the departments but most of the one's in rural areas when they have to use what ever they can get at the end they flush the tanks and pumps. Take drain it down fill it with some clean(or cleaner water) and run it through a few times back wards IE gravity out the pump from the tank and so on. I am sure there are different ways of doing it i have seen this done a few times at the end of the day we try and keep tanks and pumps clean as we can.

Great shots Mark I wish I was feeling up to making this drill.

I am just glad to see the site stay up and running I believe what you did was something that needed to be done so no regrets K.

Donation sent I wish I could send more. I am all for a yearly fee.

Thanks Seth and the team for the great service you have provided and I hope you can keep providing.

Like I said in the other thread, check the egos at the door. I'm taking this from my end of the emergency services spectrum. I don't care how many halls you've crawled down, how many babies you've delivered,or traumatic arrests you've worked, how many high profile collars you've made. I don't care how many big ones you've worked on the radio. I don't care if you're paid, or pride is your paycheck. Be it a rockin truck company in Southern Westchester or a Vollie Trolley doing two runs a week. You're no different than me or anyone else.

We all have a common goal, and that's doing the right thing by our peers, and the people we have a sworn obligation to protect. There's always room to learn, critique, or just show off some pictures from our latest travels. Let's keep that in mind.

Here's my opinion on Facebook. There are some real despicable groups on there, that are much more worthy of the time and effort placed on the anti-Seth G crowd.(F the Troops, anyone??) Like it or not, the people who own these groups have every right to put forth whatever they want to say. We agree, we disagree, we think that person should be taken behind the woodshed, whatever. I have no problem with Facebook, as it has gotten me back in touch with a lot of friends from my childhood, high school years, and my military years. It also got me in touch with my girlfriend, who was a classmate of mine in elementary school nearly 30 years ago.(Although at first she didn't remember me and I had to point to our 4th grade picture to remind her who I was.)

In the little more than two years since I joined, I have been able to see and spend time with people who meant, and mean the world to me. I've shared in triumph, tragedy, and flat out silliness. It's not a bad thing, nor at times, is it a good thing. It's what you make it. You can use it like any other website out there, to your advantage. I use it, and this site, and a few other sites to my advantage. Just a little nugget of something to ponder.

Well Said!

Your 100% right about Facebook its just another tool in life its not the website that is the problem its the people that use it that go overboard and do not controll what is put on there.

I agree 90-95% of my runs lights are off going to the hospital like I said if it can be a life saving move to run reds then there on other then that no lights. Quick question whats most peoples drive time to there hospital? Mine baisic hospital 25-30min. Trauma or cardiac 45+ min the only reason I say this I have proved it it can go both ways lights saved 3-5 min to the hospital vs tooling along with trafic and both times were similar trafic volume. That can make a difference in some cases.

My chief said it best in my book (in new York any ways) we should treat priority 1-3 with a little common sense because you don't know what you have until you get there even with the best dispatchers so you could argue getting care there could make a difference. A priority 4 response most of the time no need to get there in a hurry so why run the risk of using reds. Now on the trip to the hospital is different when you know what you have "The chief said to me the Driver is responsible to be able to articulate the need for the EMERGENCY mode of travel and if it will make a difference in the outcome of the patient" (i.e. code or near code v.s. compound fracture the code can have a different outcome with the higher level of care in some cases but the chance is there, broken bones with P.M.S what is the extra Min's).

The thread is about our service being its own worst enemies and its true.

I would venture to guess there are very few if any members here who have never abused lights and sirens, or have not been on a piece of equipment that has. If we are going to start topics about things that are abused it would need it's own section, if not it's own server here. And the article referenced was in 1996!

Do some EMS employees abuse privlege? Yes

Do some Police Officers abuse privlege? Yes

Do some Firefighters abuse privlege? Yes

I did not read the first thread that this was linked to but the article referenced (from 1996) could have easily put PD or FD instead of EMS providers for his purposes of pointing out abuse.

I agree 100% everone has or has been around an abuse of the lights and sirens. I say its up to the discretion of the driver/emt or paramedic in the back to run red lights to the hospital. For Some time we have had the priority system now so I drive based on that you have to you are not the one taking the call your 30th call might be the one that person is in real need (the boy who cried wolf).

When a guy drives a truck for a living all you have to do is go look at his driving record with the company he works for and look at his work truck. Those 2 things should tell it all and obviously his attitude. When you get a CDL, YOU are considered a professional driver, I dont know if you have ever taken a CDL written test but it is over 100 questions and pretty intense, the test will make you think. Im not gonna get into it but ive been through EVOC and the NYS CDL program, which one do you think is tougher to get through? Some departments, I know of at least 3, require you to have a CDL to drive, It weeds out and lessens the chance of an accident thats all im getting at. My personal feeling, its just mine and I know im gonna get crucifide for saying this but to be a driver in the fire service in NYS you should have pump ops, EVOC and a CDL or at least an endorsement on your license like CT does, LET THE HANGING BEGIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

There should not be a hanging. you have every right to that opinion look CT dose it NY did for a few months I personally do not know i am sure other states have CDL requirements. I used to believe a driver should have a CDL to drive a fire truck since take away the lights and department endorsing it its a commercial class vehicle. If and this is a big if, if you train your drivers in a manner that they learn its a CDL truck how it handles, brakes, and runs. The reason CDL sounds like the best option is due to the fact even if they suck driving they have an idea what air brakes are and how weight dist. works to your advantage and disadvantage. But no matter what the one side of the training needs to have the other IE CDL drivers need to train that its also a fire truck and carries water which moves even with baffles it moves most cargo dose not. People that lean its a fire truck need to learn its also a CDL class truck under its pretty red dress. Even taking a CDL driver lets say that drives bus for a living will have a leg up from the guy who drives a Mini but both need the extra training.

I guess what I am trying to say is no matter what nothing can replaces a well thought out driver training program your department sets up with all the bells thrown in about the truck and duties/ responsibilities taken on by the driver getting behind that wheel and actual drive time/ annual re certs. No matter what the guys qualification coming into the dept its up to the department to make him or her drive and act the way they set forth is best for the department.

I have to agree though about the real premise of this post its about why would the department let him do or have the chance to do this. although i am happy to see such a great discussion about driver quals.

I'm not sure if any amount of experience or time can guarantee a good driver of an emergency vehicle. I've been driving emergency vehicles now for 17 years and have never hit anything while moving forward (I had a deer hit ME once, jumped out of the roadside and hit my rear tire). I also backed into another ambulance (embarrassing story involving an ambulance covered with ice that I should've cleared before backing into the station). That being said, there are guys in my FD and my past FD that have been driving for 20 years that I plain old will not get on the rig with because I'm not confident in their ability. In contrast, I've worked with some 20 and 21 year olds that are very responsible driving the ambulance. I think that it's all about attitude and if someone doesn't have the right attitude, they shouldn't be driving your rigs. Incidents like this should remind all services that it's more important to have a competent operator than getting the rig off the floor.

Very well said about the atitude with driving the years/training helps but it still dosent make you a driver. I know some people that think if a person comes in with a CDL they should be able to drive. It helps but just because that guy has a CDL dosent mean he can drive without wreking the rig by bad or just plain abusive driving.

Is this deja vu without those beers @ Wabeeka?

When I first started on this topic I thought the same thing. Ha ha ha I guess you can have a good productive discussion over a beer roundtable.

Sorry Dan i forgot to add you are right about the popularity contest of elections why put somone in the position who can do it when you can have somone who is horrible at it to do the job . when you running for office lol.

Dan that is well said. I am gonna play devils advocate real quick I agree 3 years is a little hard to swallow. The main issue we as a vol. service run into today is lack of fires and lack of manpower. Everyone here came up with great ideas to try and combat the office that really could use some more time in the oven not quit done yet. But you have to look at if you add too many years or some really crazy requirements you might get stuck with no one to run or same thing inexperienced/just plain bad officers even though they have the years doesn't make them an officer. On the same page you can have all the classes and that doesn't make you an officer either. Thats why putting the years, classes, number of calls run, and some sort of competence exam is probably the safest bet. As some one said I believe in another thread no system is truly flawless elected, appointed, or promoted by test there will still be the guys coming in that dint belong there. Thats why if your gonna make rules about requirements you should be weary of making it hard for people that should be in office to get in. You know where I am coming from we are seeing in a Dept. right now that is running out of people for the line. i would like to see 5yrs min. For anything above Capt. If you think about it the math would work out perfect. if you make it 3yrs for Lt. gives them at least 2yrs to learn the position. I dont know about others areas but around here most departments use there LT ranks as learning positions. So if everything works out right your LT should be learning the ropes in that position as well as being able to preform the small set of duties set forth depending on your dept. (when I say small I mean it in a comparison to Capt or a Lt set to run a company not downing how much responsibility having that colored helmet or shield affords weather its learning position or full fledged).

Oh and Dan you know I agree %110 on the officer doing what the officer should do, not playing fire fighter when you have plenty of them there to lead and watch. Nothing chafes me more then that when i see the Lt. or Capt. with the line, the saw, or ever the tool at a MVA when there are other qualified FF's there (THAT NEED THE EXPERIENCE SO THEY CAN DO THE JOB SOME DAY).

Exams to test competency would be another great addition to the list. During my time in school doing fire science class was the first time I heard about the flip school and it sounded like a great resource for the officer to grow. Chief again thanks great info for us to look at for our benefit. And everyone who has chimed in giving a lot of great ideas to try and reform the current polices in your respective department if its feasible.

Just throwing it out there what about train the trainer classes so the officers that are expected to train their subordinates can do so properly and with some background in teaching someone. I know people can do the task but can they train me and make it stick.

As far as the classes or what ever in the 60's or 70's your right they did what they had to do with what they had. On the other hand a lot has changed since then not only what you have to know and be able to do. The people as a hole changed in my opinion kids today are different when it comes to authority and leaning not saying there bad but its diff teaching someone now then back in the day when respect was different in my eyes. Then you did what you were told no ??? Asked and if you didn't u were out back getting a reason to listen. Afterward you all went out for a beer. Now there is more challenges to the authority "why do I have to do that I am vol" things like that. And now try that form of discipline there will be criminal charges or civil suits.

Yes well said chief the standards on training and calls run would be an awsome addition to years in for running or moving up in the ranks. Some departments do have some good starts to this idea. The dpt I am in has set classes you need for each position and as I said before 3yrs for running wich at one point in our history it was 5yrs before you were able to run.

And I could not agree more on the addition of leadership/ managment skills for officers to learn the people skills. The fire service officer vol or paid has like 90% people handeling and manegment duties not on the fire ground and 10% fire ground ops. Just rough thrown out there figures that sound close.

I agree to a point about the years it takes to be able to make the transition from ff to officer. In my dpartment there is a minimum of 3yrs active to be able to run for an office. As far as the years go some times you get someone who is really active makes an effort to lean the ropes and responsibilites and dose the training all that he can get/ makes a lot of runs (if you have a lot) and might in 3 to 4 years have enough to make a good LT. In other cases you have someone who yea has the years but nothing out of it because of the I will say activness for lack of a better word. Last but not least moving through the ranks it depends on the person I would say no less then 2ys a position before moving is a good rule since if you think about it your first year is kind of a learning year.

I agree the bullpen can breed a lot of bad press for the service that's why its should be better thought out more control. Maybe inside some where no public can see and cut off before they are too drunk to stand. But the guys who want a beer deserve it in moderation and out of sight out of mind.

What's your feelings about spouses, or significant others wearing it??

Same deal in my opion wear it right but no problem putting your cap on the (womem in your life or for the night) hahaha. But keep it respectfull to the uniform an the service.

FYI...

A fireman's bell cap is intended to be worn with the brim facing the front.

No matter how cool you may think you look, it is never Ok to wear a uniform cap backwards. It is disrespectful to your uniform, your department, and the fire service as a whole.

It may even be grounds for a solid smack upside the head.

That is all.

Agreed 100% it's a respect issue I wish people would learn it.

Looks like no need to me....who wants extra weight and to be off balance when you are 3 stories up and would not be on air anyways? Good call by the roof crew in my experience.

I agree it would be nice, less weight but what happens when it goes south and they need the packs its eiser to mask up and click in then bailing off the roof over come with smoke. It looks like it was during overhaul but still should have all the gear. We should treat every alarm like its the big one gear should be on all of it. It dose look like a good stop good job.

Yes some tanks if its the service line that was the problem can be shut off with the proper hose coverage. But word of warning you need to have the right condition to do this *in class they talked about above ground tanks failing in 20 min or less so evacuation might be a better couse if fire has been burning for a long time. For the question about the propane vs oil gal wise. One thing to remember for every gal of liquid propane the vapor expands 270 times so do the math 1 gal liquid = like 270 gal of vapor.

T.O.F.B.???????

Taylor Oil Fire Brigade! LOL!

Wish they called us - I was ready to go!

I know u guys could have brought some smore's stuff so we could have made it a real camp fire.