BIGRED1

Have you not seen "I robot" It will not work in anyway. As said maybe a tool the firefighters could use but not replace us. Robots don't think and can not make split second choices. they will not remember that there is a window one room back that can be bailed out of. Or more importantly they have no concept of self preservation. They will just plunk away in 1000 degree heat and say when it has surpassed livable conditions, must stop search and start suppression.

How about they work on a robot that packs hose or fills bottles? That would be great! he could also have a water cooler inside so we would always be hydrated.

Here is a

Forget all the PPE and SCBA stuff, because thats obvious and we all now it. Attacking a car that has the gas pinned or stuck from the front? what if it jumps in gear? Guessing that Mr. Fast and the Furious Car racer moded out the bumper and it is not even hooked up to the airbag. (i would still not approach form the front but which is more likely, Car jumping in gear or bumper exploding) Why didn't anyone just turn it off? The doors wide open. They are not doing anything else safely, just jump in and turn a key. One problem solved. I also love the helmet hand off THEN he pulls down the shield you now "just in case".

As a side note how would you handle this situation? Might as make one mans mistake another's learning tool.

Stay Safe Brothers

If martial arts is in the Olympics then yes it is a sport without a doubt. Judo, Tai Kwan Do, Karate all components of MMA. MMA is more entertaining anyway then boxing. With boxing you get what two styles, regular and south paw. With MMA you get two different styles competeing against each other. They are TRYING to hit each other rather then that lame predictable boxing throw little jabs and pokes with not real power. Also MMA fights are only 3 or 5 five minute rounds, so with Pay Per View i can see maybe 3 or 4 fights in one night.

When was the last time someone gave up in a boxing ring? Case Closed

I think that we can shut Rev Al up if they reminded everyone about Tawana Brawley every time he comes out for a protest. Let his name be dragged through the mud day in and day out. He wont be showing up everytime some criminal gets shot by the police. I was happy to see that the officers were not white, because that took all the wind out of his sails. He had to ditch the old reliable "Race Card"

Like someone said these boys were not on their way to church. they were thugs who were for once NOT committing a crime, until they try to run some people over. Notice i did not say police officers, no Sean was trying to run some people over. Last i checked thats Hit and run, maybe reckless endangerment? Not sure but i think you can see what i am saying.

Classic

Interesting. Now was that a secondary collapse? Cause, why was someone filming it?

"As far as I can tell in driving it," Botto said this afternoon, "you used to be able to swing the old tillers out wide. These don't swing out the way the others did." He said he might have jumped the gun in hopping into the cab and taking off.

We were just so gung-ho to get out there and drive it,

This illustrates why EVERYONE needs driver training. Just cause you have driven one before don't mean you know how this one drives.

He said one of the last times he drove a tiller truck was the day it snowed in Tampa, in January 1977. "They were a little different back then," he said. "This one not set up the way the old ones were."

So that last time he drove was 30 years ago.

Ya i am guessing every department in LI is gonna by one for each member even the retired exempt guys. It is useless and is good only for maybe chipping ice on the side walk. what is a mere 2 1/2 ft gonna do you when trying to pull a ceiling or maybe open a vent hole. It's not that useful as a Officers tool cause no Adz or pike. The foam handle on the shaft would make using a flathead on it a pain and you would break your fingers.

Investigators are saying that Calista had been laying in her bed for at least three days prior to the fire.

That should sum it up for the judge when he sends the parents to jail for a lifetime or 2. Why didn't the father simply lock the door if she was always trying to leave the house? Could be locked from out side the door and maybe they build a bathroom for her in the room. problem solved and no dead child. this couple makes me sick.

Heres a crazy idea, make the driving age 21. If drinking something is so dangerous then why is operating a large, heavy object that can move at rather high speeds, while at the same time protecting the "user" of the object from injury until "out of control" Alcohol has a sort of fail safe that you cant really function to well if you drink to much. Exceed it too much and you die which is not good. But if you drive fast well it really does not effect you till you hit something. Forget fake ID's, if you had to get the ID to drive when 21 then it would be a little harder to drink in high school and even some college.

or maybe the whole thing is blown out of proportion. I don't have all the info but somewhere in Europe ( i think Germany) it is very hard to get your license and if you get caught driving drunk then thats it. No more license, EVER. No "well we will suspend your license for x months" no second shot. you take the bus for the rest of your life. would this happen in the US, nope, too many would complain about how it's "unfair".

i also was thinking that maybe it is just where we all are. I think the "culture" of the Northeast is different then say the midwest. Parents here work long hours to pay the high taxes, the city is easily accessible with all it's "evils". Is the teen drinking and driving death rate higher outside of the Metro areas? I mean kids are gonna drink but maybe it's cause schools try and scare them, parents ignore the issue till little johnny is in car accident or jane comes home piss drunk, and then it's too late. Stop demonizing drinking. If it is so bad then why is it legal? well you have to wait to do this cause it's dangerous. Really mom then why do dad and you drink wine every night at dinner? or when you go to the country club? Kids are not stupid and the sooner we as "adults" realize this the better we will all be. I grew up in a house where drinking was never demonized and it was never a big deal. Made it through high school and never really drank. same with college. when it is normal then it is not like you are doing something special. And don't the police really have better things to do then arrest parents cause their kids are drinking? If Mom and Dad are sitting in the living room enjoying a nice movie while kids are rocking out in the backyard, thats one thing but if no parents are home then it's 100% on the kids. arrest them and make them pay the fines.

Thats a sweet find. There is 1 & 1 coming in from the corner of riverdale and prospect

"The whole point we're trying to make is police are going to be adding to the noise," Czalpala says.

Well not really because unlike the high school kids with $5,000 worth of sub woofers, the police will be using these only during an EMERGENCY! These people want everything peaceful and quiet, well guess what, move out of a city and maybe it will be a little more quiet for you. I bet these people sleep with earplugs in and are the same people who don't hear the fire apparatus or police in their cars cause they like it nice and sound proof.

I Thought they had incorporated Survival into FF1? I could be wrong but i would think that if you are teaching guys to go in on a fire then how to safely get out would be one of the first things you teach. I do remember Survival class and while it was informative, we only bailed out twice ( i did get to do it a third times). I think that we should all be carrying an escape rig, but one issue that i see is that for all the new fancy systems you have to have the Gemtor rig on your gear. I know that this harness is great for raising downed firemen and bailing out but it is an additional $150- $200 on top of the cost of the bail out bag.

Ok i think these guys are morons and it would have been funny if the guys were just in an engine bay and it was like " hey i got my camara, mike do that robot dance to the PASS alarms" then we would all laugh it. as for the drinking all i am gonna say is, The Harbor Island Bullpen. They have a truck parked there giving out free beer, which i have drank years ago (so i am no angel), which is in plain sight of the public. so while these morons drinking IN the rig are guilty and i am sure the "space in between Mountains / another name for a brook" department will be looking into this. Bet one of them is not even 21.

The LVFD made a good stop of the fire. when i saw it at around 5 it was roaring up the sides. Anyone hear how it started? They said welders were on the roof but in the video from earlier, the fire was in two different wings of the casino plus the roof.

The Video on Yahoo

From Firehouse.com

KAMIKA DUNLAP

Inside Bay Area (California)

# Watch KTVU Video

OAKLAND -- After camping in Frank H. Ogawa Plaza for two days, many cold and disgruntled firefighter applicants Saturday started circulating a petition calling for a fresh hiring process.

They said the Oakland Fire Department's system for scouting new recruits is unfair, as some people had been handpicked over others. In addition, they said, the unofficial waiting lines that formed in the plaza created intense competition and overall confusion.

"A lot of people were sneaking in when others were sleeping," said Noe Leon, 22, of Fremont. He slept overnight in the plaza with six friends. "At 4 a.m., everyone got an urge to rush to the front."

Some people tried to defend their space with yellow caution tape, he added.

The department, which is trying to add another 20 firefighting positions to its current 450, recently waived its emergency medical technician requirement and said it would process only the first 1,000 applicants.

"We are moving forward with the process," Oakland fire Lt. David Brue said.

The deadline to submit applications was noon Saturday.

A multiple-choice test will be administered next Saturday to the remaining candidates. Oral interviews will be conducted Jan. 28 to Feb. 1, and physical agility tests will be given Feb. 25-29.

More than 8,000 firefighter-training applications were distributed.

Evan Rogers, 23, of San Leandro signed the petition being circulated Saturday because he said he was frustrated by the lack of organization.

"People started mosh pitting," he said. "This is not a rock concert."

Applicants' patience began to wear thin when some people were handpicked from thecrowd. Many male applicants said minority female applicants were favored.

Other applicants became upset after standing in a line for hours only to find out that theirs was not an official line.

A recording from a loudspeaker in the plaza Friday night urged applicants to go home and return at 5 a.m. Saturday, but no one wanted to lose their place in line, Leon said.

According to Brue, no "official lines" were established until between 6 and 7 a.m. Saturday.

In addition, the Fire Department, Police Department and Personnel Department helped secure and manage five entry points, allowing up to 20 applicants at a time into the building on a rotational basis.

"The closest 20 to 30 people at those entry points were being picked," Brue said.

Some of the hopefuls camping in the plaza said they were afraid to talk to the media for fear of hurting their chances with the department during the application process.

"It's not fair," said one applicant, who preferred to be unnamed. "All you have to be is 18 and breathing to apply, and this process is not giving the public the best."

This is interesting. I wonder why they don't just offer a test and then pick from the list like most big cities. Watch the included video and you will be scratching your head about how they run things out there. Just picking people at random just to hand in their application seems a little shifty.

I'm thinking that the lifetime ban is about right. If they can do it to Pete Rose, then they can do it to this guy. He has tarnished the game with his actions and he deserves NO recognition for any of these " accomplishments". Pete Rose got banned for doing something that did not directly effect the game. Barry did. While gambling is bad and it is the #1 no no is sports it really has no effect on actual play. it does not make you better. it might make you play harder but theres nothing wrong with playing hard. Taking something that makes you stronger is a whole other ball game. plus there was that whole elbow guard thing he wore, that also served to give him an unfair advantage.

Maybe he should be at the hall with Pete Rose, Shoeless Joe in a section called "CHEATERS" and thats it. no mention of any records or titles they won just a little booth OUTSIDE the Hall thats says that there were cheaters.

2. As far as PPE goes, of the four men that were operating up there I saw ONE with his coat open and that was as they were evacuating the roof area. I see FOUR helmets of the roof of the Exposure D building. Anyone care to guess where they came from? The men decided to minimize the risk of them falling off into the alleyway when they were evacuating. All members were wearing bunker coats & pants, boots and gloves.

3. I've NEVER worn a SCBA to a roof and can't imaging why on earth anyone would. If conditions are that bad that you need to be under air, then perhaps you don't belong on that roof in the first place. IMHO, and in the opinion of most of the men I work with, all the SCBA is is another 40lbs of unnecessary weight to lug up to the roof with you.

I am sort of confused here cause you said that you have never worn an SCBA on a roof with a smoke condition. Is that in the BFD SOP's? I would think that they would at least want you to be able to breath. Ya it weights a couple of pounds extra but it will keep you alive if the crap hits the fan. So if the roof had collapsed, the guys would have grabbed their helmets real quick before going down? I aint got an issue with you personally but how can you say that you think this is safe and normal. At the end of the day we want to go home and be safe but no one should go out of their way to put themselves in more danger that they already are in.

And if you watch the video from the chopper, that is his helmet he is kicking around and stomping out cause it was on fire.

Here is a recount of the fire by the guys who were there.

Boston Firefighters Recount Dramatic Rescue

BOSTON, Mass.-- Rarely do we see the dangers firefighters face every day. These men and women risk their lives to keep others safe every day.

WBZ photographer Chuck Manning captured a dramatic rescue at a burning house in Mattapan Monday morning. A triple-decker on Blue Hill Avenue burst into flames. Engine 16 rushed to the scene to help fight the fire and rescue those who were trapped inside.

Later that night, the firemen who were at the scene spoke with to WBZ's Jonathan Elias about what happened.

When firefighters got to the fire in Mattapan, they knew they had their hands full. They had to rescue children and then firefighters.

Gathering around the TV, the firefighters with Engine 16 watched video of the fight some of them had waged just hours earlier.

Lt. Michael Sameski was one of the first to arrive at the scene. "When you come up like that and you have people pointing and yelling, it's just life safety you're thinking somebody is there, and you got to get the people out" Sameski said.

Sameski ran to the back of the burning house and saw a girl screaming from the second story. He grabbed a painter's ladder, put it up against the building and crawled up to her. "And I just told the girl to stay... the smoke was coming out the window bad... she was screaming... she was hysterical, but I told her to stay, that there would be a ladder. That was her best option at that point. She was breathing relatively good air for the most part."

Sameski was able to get the little girl out and carry her to an ambulance that was waiting on the street below. He then ran back to the house to rescue a 2-year-old, but someone had already pulled the toddler from the fire.

Meanwhile, up on the roof, firefighters were working with axes trying to vent the fire -- working to direct the blaze away from those inside the house. The venting was a success, but the fire quickly turned on them. "Yeah, the fire was coming close to us and it made it more urgent to get off the roof," said firefighter Jay Gormley, who was one of the five firefighters on the building's roof.

A truck's ladder was ferrying the men from the burning roof to the roof next door. At one point the fire got so close to the men that one firefighter had to jump off the roof and onto the ladder before the blaze got him. "We weren't expecting (the fire) to cut across our exit," said Gormley. "When we saw that happen, we asked for our buddies down below to move the ladder... They moved it for us... We moved to the adjacent roof... It turned out all right for us."

Some firefighters suffered minor burns from the fire, but none of them were seriously injured. They told WBZ they were very concerned about the 2-year-old who was pulled out of the burning house.

They were relieved to hear the toddler's condition was upgraded Monday night.

From Firehouse.com

New Worcester, Mass. Station to be Built on Site of Tragic Blaze

Six firefighters died in a 1999 warehouse blaze

............

SHAUN SUTNER

TELEGRAM & GAZETTE (Massachusetts)

A century ago, it was a meat-packing warehouse.

Industrial operations at the giant brick building ceased in the early 1980s, and the building stood vacant for nearly two decades. Then disaster struck.

On Dec. 3, 1999, the building became an inferno that consumed the lives of six city firefighters: Firefighters Paul A. Brotherton, Jeremiah M. Lucey and Joseph T. McGuirk, and Lts. Timothy P. Jackson Sr., Thomas E. Spencer and James F. "Jay" Lyons III.

For the last eight years, the empty lot endured, with makeshift remembrances of the men who died adorning the chain-link fence that enclosed it.

Now, finally, after years of lobbying and planning, the site - just below busy Interstate 290 a few blocks from downtown - that once housed the Worcester Cold Storage and Warehouse Co. building is being turned into a new fire station that will also serve as a lasting memorial to the six firefighters.

Yesterday, fire and city officials and politicians clustered at the 254 Franklin St. property for an official groundbreaking as construction workers laid the foundation for the $6 million station.

Work actually began Sept. 7, and is expected to be complete in spring 2009. The project is being financed with $2 million from the state and about $1 million from the sale of the old Central Street fire station, where a hotel has been built. The Brown Square fire station up the hill on Plantation Street also will close when the Franklin Street station opens.

Among the several dozen onlookers was James F. Lyons Jr., father of Lt. Lyons;

his wife, Joan; and their daughter, Kathryn M. Wunschel (SEE CORRECTION) of Auburn.

Mr. Lyons, a retired junior high school teacher, said he had intense feelings as he watched construction workers lay the foundation for the new station on this crisp late fall morning.

"We're pleased that this is a part of our son's legacy, and we hope this will bring more public safety to Worcester," Mr. Lyons said. "This station comes at a terrible cost. Six young men gave up all their tomorrows so we could be here today."

The ceremony lasted about 45 minutes. It featured some emotional statements about the firefighters' sacrifice, including one from City Manager Michael V. O'Brien.

"We will carry them in our hearts, never to be forgotten," Mr. O'Brien said.

Other family members of the dead firefighters were also on hand, including three sons of Firefighter Paul A. Brotherton, and Mary Jackson, the widow of Lt. Jackson.

The three strapping Brotherton brothers, Steven, 18, Brian, 21, and Michael, 22, have wanted to become firefighters since they were young boys. Now they are all headed for firefighting careers.

Steven, who has been a volunteer firefighter in Auburn while attending Anna Maria College, wants to join the Worcester Fire Department after he graduates from school.

His two older brothers are getting ready to go through firefighter recruit training, which starts Feb. 1. When they complete the fire academy, they will join the Worcester force.

"We are very, very ecstatic about it," Michael said.

Brian said the busy construction crew and the signs of life at the long empty lot were hopeful signs, though he and his brother don't know if they'll get to work there.

"It looks a lot better now, but we won't have a choice where we go," he said.

The keynote speaker at the groundbreaking, Lt. Gov. Timothy P. Murray, was the city's mayor at the time of the fire. (SEE CORRECTION) Many credit him with spearheading the fund drive that resulted in the new building.

"It is unbelievable to see this," Mr. Murray said in a conversation before the ceremony, which ended with him and the other officials picking up gold-colored shovels and pitching mounds of fresh dirt into the muddy earth.

"It's important for the families and for the whole community," the lieutenant governor continued. "When you think of what happened that day, it shouldn't be forgotten. And it won't be, because of something like this."

You gotta be frigging kidding me!

And the gold medal for the Partner Saw shot put goes to......

I think that the better part of that was a little later on when the guy throws the saw, then it bounces OFF THE ROOF!! Hope he checked to see if anyone was below covering the exposure. How you gonna explain that LODD. "Um ya your husband was hit in the head with a saw that someone Kinda sorta dropped off a roof. "

after seeing that second video link (from the chopper) all the "there could be more to the story" stuff goes right out the window. there are too many guys on a roof which was already venting and looks like the fire had been going for a little while so you have to think about a possible collapse, and they didn't even have SCBA. the only way they could have gotten an inkling of doubt would have been in the SCBA were laying on the roof decking, then at least we would know they THOUGHT about bringing them up.

Well on the positive side i am glad no one got hurt and all residents made in out relatively ok.

I heard Boston does things their own way, but...wow. Jackets open, no packs, bailout ropes, eye protection, even helmets.

Ya the Zero level of safety is interesting. the guys in video 3 on the roof with almost no gear on looked like they wanted to be heros and didn't think about their safety. Hope they don't go out on a OJI from this fire cause the brass will say " um guys you didn't have any SCBA, Any helmets, coats open. And what the hell were you doing on a roof with none of this stuff on?"

Also notice about 27 seconds into the third video how they almost get tossed off the ladder

I want to thank all the Vets and all the guys over there fighting for us a happy and safe Veterans Day. We would not be here if it were not for you.

Try the seagrave website. seagrave.com there are some there