Why Is Everything Such A Top Secret?

[EMTbravo 312]

Recently, I recieved a complaint that a member shared that a neighboring department was recieving a new apparatus. This information was common knowledge for a while now in the area, in fact the dealer has even been sharing it with other clients.

The member who sent me the complaint felt that the members from that department should be the ones to share that information. Granted, I wish more members from every department came on here to share what's going on in their departments, but some don't. And there's a lot of interested parties who want to know.

My reply to this member was that there have been a large amount of deliveries to this area since this forum was started, yet we hardly hear about them or see photos. I am encouraging members from throughout the area to share information, and I gladly welcome these types of threads. If we're not bashing the agency, then it's completly fine to discuss....as long as the member presenting the thread is presenting fact or asking a question, and not speculating or speaking out of place.

It seems anytime a department gets a new fire engine, station, equipment, personel,even a new technique they are using, that information is regarded as "top secret". It seems some departments want to keep what happens in their departments within their departments. I see problems with this. First, if accurate information is not openly shared, that IS the foundation of a rumor with the wrong facts being spread. Secondly, there are a number of people with an interest in a departments operations (as seen by the interest expressed on this forum) as well as the citizens, AKA the taxpayers, who's dollars go to pay for this equipment. Many departments even make it a game to make this information completly inaccesible.

This forum is about the sharing of information. Unfortunely, some don't want to post the information they have.....only complain about the information others post. Or worse yet, try to squash their participation in this forum. This forum is about the sharing of information...and as we grow our member base, sometimes we don't have active members from all the areas we want information from, so other members "in the know" have to post. It bothers me that those people who complain that "people are talking about their deparment " who are registered members here just sit back and brood, yet cannot figure out how to hit the "New Post" or "Add Reply" button and set the facts straight, or give us the information that we want to know.

I can fully understand departments not wanting their members represented via a "MySpace" profile, or even presenting information on internet forums that they may not have the correct facts on or information that should not be public knowledge yet. What concerns me is that members will come on here to share what should be common knowledge, and then getting chastised or even disciplined for it for no reason. It makes no sense to me.

I encourage the members of EMTBravo who have the factual information to back up their posts and stand behind their posts to share information with us when it is appropriate to share that information. I provide these forums as a place to share information and ideas, as a place to grow so that we can all work better together.

The "Top Secret" nonsense needs to stop. If members are seriously concerned about information about their department, then do something about it. Whether it be a press release, blog, updated website, or even posting on this forum, give those that are interested a way to know what's going on. What is said on this forum is also said on the street...meaning people just don't talk about things here.

By the way, if you are ever concered about the validity of a post or a members behavior, please feel free to contact a moderator or myself at anytime.

-EMTBravo

[Dr. Zuki 1]

Beautiful, well written posting and once a municipality goes to bid on new rigs, that and everything thereafter is a matter of public record based on both state and federal law. It's your right to know, period...

And now that Pataki has made it much easier to recoup legal fees in Freedom of Information Law cases, a whole new era has emerged for the citizens of this state.

It's funny how some on this board may be secretive about new rig details, yet the day of delivery, the Mayor and others will be standing there for a wonderful photo opportunity.

[res6cue 67]

I'd like to chime in here, if I may.

I was actually the one who this complaint was lodged against. The member who complained also contacted me directly via PM to suggest that I not break the news regarding Valley Cottage's new ALF aerial. Here is the text of his message to me:

hi there , why dont you let the members of vally cottage break the news for every one, in regards to thier new alf ladder.

i see your from hillcreast FD

And here is the text of my response back to the concerned member:

Well, to begin with, there are only a handful of guys here that are even from Rockland. The one member who does happen to be from Valley Cottage didn't make a single post since he joined in February, not until the recent thread about the condo fire in their area. Therefore, if there is news from Rockland chances are very good that either myself or Photofires will be posting it, apparatus news included. And yes, I've been a member of Hillcrest for quite a few years and, not surprisingly, happen to know a few guys in Valley Cottage. Believe me, none of them would have any problem with me letting out their big "secret". One of their members (who I know) has already posted about the truck on firehouse.com a few months back.

Bottom line: Since this board was started 3 years ago, there have been almost 20 new trucks delivered in Rockland. Of those, only 1 was posted here (Nanuet's) and it wasn't even posted by someone FROM Rockland. The only other discussion about new Rockland rigs NOT started by me recently was the talk about Spring Valley's ALF.

Still think I should sit around waiting for just the right people from Rockland to come along and post info about their new trucks?

I think my reply pretty well sums it all up. I've posted a few threads recently regarding new or anticipated deliveries from Rockland, and will continue to do so as I hear about them and as I see fit to do so. I only post the information I know to be accurate, and where I don't have all the details, I will clearly state as much. Most times I get this information firsthand from members or officers of the department itself who I know personally.

[trauma74 111]

I'd like to chime in here, if I may.

I was actually the one who this complaint was lodged against. The member who complained also contacted me directly via PM to suggest that I not break the news regarding Valley Cottage's new ALF aerial. Here is the text of his message to me:

And here is the text of my response back to the concerned member:

I think my reply pretty well sums it all up. I've posted a few threads recently regarding new or anticipated deliveries from Rockland, and will continue to do so as I hear about them and as I see fit to do so. I only post the information I know to be accurate, and where I don't have all the details, I will clearly state as much. Most times I get this information firsthand from members or officers of the department itself who I know personally.

←

I will break some news right now. My agency is getting two Horton Medium Duty Ambulances in December.

[res6cue 67]

Incidentally, for the record, I do not believe the person who complained to me and Seth was actually a member of Valley Cottage. Unfortunately, he is unverified and doesn't have a shred of info listed in his profile. I just don't want anyone thinking it was actually a member of Valley Cottage. Had that been the case, I would've tried to work it out with them, and would've had no problem deleting my thread so that they could post it. What do I care in the end who posts it?

[IzzyEng4 427]

Hey guys, not to be and @## of anything, but if this person is complaining about what infromation is being shared or not, we can actually get the information leagaly and we are protected under the FREEDOM OF INFORMATION ACT in obtaining and sharing information (as long as the information is not used for slander). I mean come on! Do we really have to go that route?

But then again I guess that people feel the need to complain is the only way they need to be heard.

Let's not change. If we hear of a new delivery we should report it because new technologies are going to help the next neighbor. Also to if there area members that have new trucks comming in and they had corrected and additional information, they should share it. I just can't understand why this person complained to y'all.

[EMTbravo 312]

To note, this site was founded on the principle that sharing information leads to working together better.

I'd like to see more members to go from "lurkers" to active posting members. A lot of people read this board, and there really is no reason to hold back if you have information to share.

Also, there are some members who just enjoy causing trouble. That's what we DON'T want on this forum.

[Guest alsfirefighter]

2 words...... GROW UP.

If you don't like it, don't read it, don't come to the site and go join the Elks Club.

Safety Standdown initiative: Change the culture of the fire service.

Share information, share near misses, discuss mistakes. When will many of them ever wake up.

[RWC130 594]

When people have nothing better to do they find something to complain about.

Enough said about that....

This message board is a very useful tool for ALL Firefighters, EMT's, Paramedics, and Police Officers for the ability to SHARE information.

Keeping a "Top Secret" is nothing more than someone on a

power trip when it pertains to a NEW apparatus. Why hide it?

BE PROUD OF IT!

I'd like to take a moment to wish the Members and Officers of Valley Cottage FD all the best with the new Ladder.

P.S. Trauma74, You forgot the new colors!

[trauma74 111]

When people have nothing better to do they find something to complain about.

Enough said about that....

This message board is a very useful tool for ALL Firefighters, EMT's, Paramedics, and Police Officers for the ability to SHARE information.

Keeping a "Top Secret" is nothing more than someone on a

power trip when it pertains to a NEW apparatus. Why hide it?

BE PROUD OF IT! 

I'd like to take a moment to wish the Members and Officers of Valley Cottage FD all the best with the new Ladder.

P.S.  Trauma74, You forgot the new colors!     

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Rob,

I am keeping the colors top secret! LOL!....feel free to snap some pics of the new fly car and post them on here.

[Skooter92 7]

Jeez....

They're big, often red and make a lot of noise.....so they don't stay secret for too long......

Besides, I have it on good authority that Al Quaida has an inside line into most apparatus manufacturers anyways.

Damn terrorists.

Posting about our rigs before WE get to do it.

Will democracy endure?

[EMTbravo 312]

Let me clarify, this isn't JUST about apparatus....this is about the whole concept of some people trying to intentionally suppress information that in a normal world should be shared.

We all should learn from one another, and it amazes me that some people actually look to stop that. I feel that some people are personally afraid or not confident in their ideas or their actions, and that's why they are so against people posting on here.

[res6cue 67]

Ah well, the same thing goes on in the real world. Some guys are always trying to pick out everyone else's faults, put their ideas down or just do nothing but negatively criticize. More often than not, these are the same guys who seem content with sitting in the back of the room running their mouths about problems instead of lifting a finger to effect change.

Just a follow up, I was contacted tonight by none other than the apparatus chairman himself for Valley Cottage's new ALF. Not surprisingly, he didn't sound too happy that someone would use his truck as a soapbox to complain. He also said he would be happy to answer any questions about the truck, as well as welcome with open arms anyone who wants to come take pics when it comes in (in about 6 months or so). That, my friends, is BROTHERHOOD right there. Kudos to Valley Cottage, a class organization.