Update on Stamford Merger

[16fire5 693]

It isn't MD or VA either

I try to stay out of this because I really have no knowledge about Stamford. I think that the continual comparisons to MD and VA by people up here is unfair. I'm glad it's not MD or VA. Everyone wants to be like Prince George's County. Why? It's a mess down there. It is impossible for any Chief to run the place because the individual companies all claim independence. Getting in first due seems more important that going home to your family. The Career staff is treated like crap. There are some good combination systems out there but the ones I've heard about have a Chief empowered to be the chief of the whole department i.e. all the firehouses and apparatus. They have training standards and require volunteers to play within the rules not say "I'm a volunteer you can't tell me what to do"

[FFPCogs 863]

Almost missed this one

So who's fault is that? There isn't any paid personnel in TOR's fire station yet they don't have what I would call adequate participation in the public safety of their residents. I don't think you can even count Springdale as a department. And this decrease in participation is only because of SFRD guys are in their house? Really? Are we in 3rd grade or are we professionals? Professionals responsible for saving lives and property. If the volunteers don't want to come out because they don't "like" who the career staff is and if they are willing to let public safety and doing the "right" thing take a back seat to hurt feelings, then they should hang up the gear and find a new hobby. Glenbrook included.

Your preaching to the chior on this one, but be that as it may the fact remains that this has been the result of the introdution of SFRD into the volunteer houses. In TORs case and I can't really speak for them, I believe that the district needs paid people due to, if nothing else, the call volume and shear size of the district.

And I will take some exception to the view that volunteers "don't want to come out" simply because they "don't like" the career staff. I have heard that there have been instances where volunteers were in effect driven from their own firehouses by some of the career staff that hold dear to the belief that all volunteers should be eliminated. Do I have proof of such a situation? No. Are such stories or rumors true? I can't say for sure but I can say that those who feel that way believe them to be true. Now unfortunately no matter how ridiculous or "childish" such attitudes may seem to you or I they are very real, visceral and justified to those who feel that way and they can't just be dismissed.

I just have to know, giving the proven fact that other then BFD, the calls are going unanswered multiple times a day in the volunteer departments, what makes you believe that if the mayor enacts this plan that there will be a change and the volunteers are going to show up?

I know that the Mayor's plan will provide a minimum of manpower to respond to calls and although that minimum is not what I'd like it to be it is a guaranteed standard. In terms of volunteer particpation, well as I've been yammering about for quite some time I think that will require an investment by the City into recruitment and retention incentives to encourage that particpation. Now I know Bnechis for one will take exception to that view, but I believe that in light of where we live, what's required and what we stand to gain incentives offer the best possible chance to increase the ranks and demand the level of commitment required to serve this city.

Or do you believe that Belltown will just answer every call for every district?

Belltown is about the work and while I cannot speak for my Department, I can say that personally I will do everything I can and commit without reservation to making whatever path we embark upon succeed. If that means staffing another VFD one or two nights a week and BFD for a couple as well than so be it...(I'm very fortunate in that I have a wife and family that accepts that I'm married to the FD as well as them). All that I would ask of any other volunteers is that they make a commitment and stand by it to ensure that we meet the needs of the community.

Cogs

[FFPCogs 863]

I try to stay out of this because I really have no knowledge about Stamford. I think that the continual comparisons to MD and VA by people up here is unfair. I'm glad it's not MD or VA. Everyone wants to be like Prince George's County. Why? It's a mess down there. It is impossible for any Chief to run the place because the individual companies all claim independence. Getting in first due seems more important that going home to your family. The Career staff is treated like crap. There are some good combination systems out there but the ones I've heard about have a Chief empowered to be the chief of the whole department i.e. all the firehouses and apparatus. They have training standards and require volunteers to play within the rules not say "I'm a volunteer you can't tell me what to do"

Capt,

Thanks for the input and point taken. My continued references to MD and VA have to do with taking what has been successful for them, along with some successful programs for elsewhere and melding them into something different still to suit our unique needs. Personally I see nothing wrong with taking what works from here, there, and everywhere and bringing it all together to build what is best for Stamford.

Cogs

[TRex 9]

I am beginning to realize that continued discussion on this Mayors plan is becoming more and more feudal. As we come closer and closer to the full board meeting this month, reliable sources have indicated that the Mayor does not even have the support of the Repubs let alone the full board's support. Thank God there are some clear thinking people on that panel to help keep the lunacy at bay.

Proponnents of the plan, that being the volunteer heads (empty as they may be), better start thinking of another way to maintain their fiefdoms. I think they would better serve themselves and their constituency by trying to smooth over the ripples they've made in any sort of combined effort. The administration may have an alternative and maybe screw with the budget, but facts are the facts, and the truth will prevail, and that is that the volunteer system in Stamford is almost defunct, and what remains should be bolstered and resign themselves to the fact that eventually, one fire dept., one chief, one set of rules, SOPs etc. will be the fact.

Maybe Belltown will become the only volunteer organization that remains.

[Geppetto 31]

I think you mean "futile" Capt, but I like your word better.

[JohnnyOV 2]

Capt,

Thanks for the input and point taken. My continued references to MD and VA have to do with taking what has been successful for them, along with some successful programs for elsewhere and melding them into something different still to suit our unique needs. Personally I see nothing wrong with taking what works from here, there, and everywhere and bringing it all together to build what is best for Stamford.

Cogs, looking at it from a realistic approach, why do you think the live in programs and staffing programs work in MD? To me they work because of a few reasons. PG county and its surrounding areas get a s#it ton of fire, and thousands of calls a year, for each individual company. They have a progressive, aggressive, county operated department, that works to hold everyone, including the vollys accountable for every action they make. They are the epitome of a fantastic combo system that works hand in hand to create awesome coverage for its citizens, while keeping costs down. Some companies down there are running fires every day or 3 making them some of the busiest companies in the nation. The experience gained their alone is second to none for operating on a scene.

This is not a knock on any volunteer company in Stamford, but just a opinion based off facts, but expecting volunteers to sit around on a weekday in Stamford, expecting maybe a call or 2, if that, would get old really quick; especially if they have jobs or other traditional work schedules. How can you expect someone to give up their livelihood to ride on volunteer shifts instead of hiring someone who could be there 24/7 and get paid to do so?

Aren't we all supposed to be our brother keepers and watch out for one another? If there is a lack of manpower, on both sides, and our brothers lives are being put in danger, shouldn't we be a bigger person, step back and say "This is too much for us to handle?" If everyone can come to an agreement that would work, and if the volunteers really would staff their rigs during the day with expectations of not having a single run and do it consistently on a daily basis for years, then kudos and all the more power to you. But in a time when the work to down time ratio is steeply declining, leaving less time for people to volunteer, is this the most appropriate long term investment?

And for the record, I am not pro/anti paid/volly. I'm a realist, and just want everyone to be as safe as possible.

[Alpinerunner 61]

If there is a lack of manpower, on both sides, and our brothers lives are being put in danger, shouldn't we be a bigger person, step back and say "This is too much for us to handle?"

This is true. The volunteer houses in Stamford noticed this in 1942 (ish) and asked for career firefighters. No one is proclaiming to be able to do it all volunteer. Even Belltown who gets out the door all the time I doubt would say they can guarantee enough manpower for a fire by themselves all the time.

Trying to say that the plan won't work because the volunteer companies don't get out the door all the time is totally missing the point. You're right that no one can sit at the firehouse all day and wait for every medical and alarm that comes in. We haven't been able to do that for 60 years. What we are looking for is a functional combination system that utilizes the volunteers when manpower is necessary, and allows them to help. The volunteer manpower does show up when there are major incidents (MVAs, fires, storms) and is an asset that should not be overlooked.

[TRex 9]

I think you mean "futile" Capt, but I like your word better.

Thanks G. Boy do I feel dumb.

[JohnnyOV 2]

The volunteer manpower does show up when there are major incidents (MVAs, fires, storms) and is an asset that should not be overlooked.

It might be the wording of your post but I'm confused as to why they are not turning out for minor alarms such as smoke detector activations or CO calls. Is it written in their contracts that they will only respond to actual fires and major car accidents?

[Monty 35]

This is absolutely true but what this letter fails to mention is that anyone that will pay this "additional levy" (fire tax) will also see a corresponding reduction in their property taxes. In other words if I pay $5500 annually in taxes now, once this goes into effect I will still pay $5500 overall in taxes but it will be split based on the pre determined mil rate calculation of the cost of fire protection. i.e. $5000 in property taxes and $500 in fire tax. So yes there will be a new tax but not a tax increase.

I've seen this elsewhere, however I don't believe it is the whole truth. One thing is that the Fire Department budget will be short these taxes. You could argue that it won't need to staff the apparatus in North Stamford, so it's budget should be less - but even if that were true does that match the lack of revenue? Unlikely, so, that lack of revenue needs to be made up by other residents - and they get a tax increase.

The response I've seen to that is that why should North Stamford residents pay for services they don't use, or for duplicate services. Well, I would say looking at the Christmas fire, they do use the services of SFRD.

Lastly, regarding the Christmas fire, the Mayor was quoted as saying that under the plan they would still use mutual aid. Ok. However mutual aid is usually giving and receiving. How often do the Big 5 give mutual aid to SFRD? I see this as being a very one sided mutual aid pact and so then the South Stamford residents would be paying to send SFRD members to the North .....

Edited January 26, 2011 by Monty

[CTFF 65]

\Trying to say that the plan won't work because the volunteer companies don't get out the door all the time is totally missing the point. You're right that no one can sit at the firehouse all day and wait for every medical and alarm that comes in. We haven't been able to do that for 60 years. What we are looking for is a functional combination system that utilizes the volunteers when manpower is necessary, and allows them to help. The volunteer manpower does show up when there are major incidents (MVAs, fires, storms) and is an asset that should not be overlooked.

I'm pretty sure this is the point we are at now. Volunteers are not getting out the door to every call and you seem to suggest volunteers are picking and choosing which calls to go to. Someone is going to get hurt or killed when volunteers wait for the size up to determine wether they are going to respond. When the citizens you are there to protect call 911 it is a major incident to them.

Yesterday you lamented that TOR did not have a driver but a crew was there. This topic started in 2008 it's now 2011, who's fault is it that TOR does not have drivers? It's TOR's fault.

I'm not anti-volunteer, there is a place for volunteers in the system but if they are not there 100% of the time what place should they be given?

[FFPCogs 863]

I am beginning to realize that continued discussion on this Mayors plan is becoming more and more feudal. As we come closer and closer to the full board meeting this month, reliable sources have indicated that the Mayor does not even have the support of the Repubs let alone the full board's support. Thank God there are some clear thinking people on that panel to help keep the lunacy at bay.

T, this rumor has reached my ears as well and it may turn out to be fact, but until such time as it does it is all just speculation

Proponnents of the plan, that being the volunteer heads (empty as they may be), better start thinking of another way to maintain their fiefdoms. I think they would better serve themselves and their constituency by trying to smooth over the ripples they've made in any sort of combined effort. The administration may have an alternative and maybe screw with the budget, but facts are the facts, and the truth will prevail, and that is that the volunteer system in Stamford is almost defunct, and what remains should be bolstered and resign themselves to the fact that eventually, one fire dept., one chief, one set of rules, SOPs etc. will be the fact.

Maybe Belltown will become the only volunteer organization that remains.

This may well be where we end up and all I can say to that is that I will do everything humanly possible to ensure that the volunteers (be they BFD alone or all of them) have a seat at the table when the operational plans for this department are decided.

Cogs

[TRex 9]

I've seen this elsewhere, however I don't believe it is the whole truth. One thing is that the Fire Department budget will be short these taxes. You could argue that it won't need to staff the apparatus in North Stamford, so it's budget should be less - but even if that were true does that match the lack of revenue? Unlikely, so, that lack of revenue needs to be made up by other residents - and they get a tax increase.

The response I've seen to that is that why should North Stamford residents pay for services they don't use, or for duplicate services. Well, I would say looking at the Christmas fire, they do use the services of SFRD.

Lastly, regarding the Christmas fire, the Mayor was quoted as saying that under the plan they would still use mutual aid. Ok. However mutual aid is usually giving and receiving. How often do the Big 5 give mutual aid to SFRD? I see this as being a very one sided mutual aid pact and so then the South Stamford residents would be paying to send SFRD members to the North .....

Good Point Monty

[TRex 9]

I'm pretty sure this is the point we are at now. Volunteers are not getting out the door to every call and you seem to suggest volunteers are picking and choosing which calls to go to. Someone is going to get hurt or killed when volunteers wait for the size up to determine wether they are going to respond. When the citizens you are there to protect call 911 it is a major incident to them.

Yesterday you lamented that TOR did not have a driver but a crew was there. This topic started in 2008 it's now 2011, who's fault is it that TOR does not have drivers? It's TOR's fault.

I'm not anti-volunteer, there is a place for volunteers in the system but if they are not there 100% of the time what place should they be given?

Alpine Runner;

They are not an asset when they operate under a different set of rules, SOGs, etc., and create confusion with who is Command, and who is not command and do not operate as a unit etc. This in fact creates a hazard, not an asset.

[FFPCogs 863]

Cogs, looking at it from a realistic approach, why do you think the live in programs and staffing programs work in MD? To me they work because of a few reasons. PG county and its surrounding areas get a s#it ton of fire, and thousands of calls a year, for each individual company. They have a progressive, aggressive, county operated department, that works to hold everyone, including the vollys accountable for every action they make. They are the epitome of a fantastic combo system that works hand in hand to create awesome coverage for its citizens, while keeping costs down. Some companies down there are running fires every day or 3 making them some of the busiest companies in the nation. The experience gained their alone is second to none for operating on a scene.

This is not a knock on any volunteer company in Stamford, but just a opinion based off facts, but expecting volunteers to sit around on a weekday in Stamford, expecting maybe a call or 2, if that, would get old really quick; especially if they have jobs or other traditional work schedules. How can you expect someone to give up their livelihood to ride on volunteer shifts instead of hiring someone who could be there 24/7 and get paid to do so?

Aren't we all supposed to be our brother keepers and watch out for one another? If there is a lack of manpower, on both sides, and our brothers lives are being put in danger, shouldn't we be a bigger person, step back and say "This is too much for us to handle? If everyone can come to an agreement that would work, and if the volunteers really would staff their rigs during the day with expectations of not having a single run and do it consistently on a daily basis for years, then kudos and all the more power to you. But in a time when the work to down time ratio is steeply declining, leaving less time for people to volunteer, is this the most appropriate long term investment?

And for the record, I am not pro/anti paid/volly. I'm a realist, and just want everyone to be as safe as possible.

Johnny,

You bring up valid points and these are some of the ones that we are acutely aware of and have tried to address in developing alternative proposals. I know that this is not PG and that we see nowhere near the call volume or fire duty seen there, but there are other considerations that can lead to the success of a volunteer stand-by duty program such as:

1) You seem to be under the impression that we are talking about 24/7 volunteer coverage. We are not. That would be an impossibility here. What we propose is day paid / night and hopefully weekend volunteer coverage. This arrangement has been successful in a number of VFDs that we have either researched or had face to face interaction with in MD, VA, NJ, NY,DE and elsewhere.

2) While we do not see the call volume they do down there we have, through our efforts, found a number of VFDs, as referenced above, that do maintain successful programs while running a similar or even lower call volume and number of fires as we do. Remember too that when staffed as we propose the response numbers and with that the potential for active fire duty will increase, and with that increase we believe we will see an increase in the level of member participation.

3) We have among our ranks a number of highly qualified and experienced firefighters/fire officers/instructors that are committed to providing training that is second to none. This training potential has been and we believe it will continue to be a draw in attracting and retaining members.

4) Through our research of the successful VFDs we found many that faced some similar circumstances in their history. With all due respect to Alpine and his beliefs, from our research it has become apparent to some of us that without a commited effort to provide a quaranteed level of volunteer response with qualified personnel the VFDs will become, as T so eloquently points out, defunct. I can fully understand that such a change to our operations is difficult to envision but in the end it basically becomes a matter of survival...change or wither and die.

5) One of the most prevalent aspects of the success of many stand-by programs that we have found is the commitment of their local govenrments to support the VFDs through recruitment and retention programs. To that end we have been working diligently on developing such a program, based on the successes we have found, that we believe will provide both cost and operationally effective benefits to the members, the City and most importantly the public.

Will any of this matter or succeed? I cannot say for certain, as there are many detractors who for a variety of motives do not want change or want to dictate only those changes that benefit themselves. In the end though it will come down to a decision on the part of each volunteer as to how much they are willing to do to remain a vital component of this city's fire protection.

Cogs

Edited January 28, 2011 by FFPCogs

[CTFF 65]

I know we've all seen the site but anyone else notice the stamfordfiretruths.org add up on the Stamford advocate site?

Edited January 27, 2011 by CTFF

[SFRD372 43]

The "train" is getting ready to leave the station tonight! The Mayor and his chronies are going to shove this "fire plan" down the throats of the Board of Representatives this evening. What a joke......this plan is about as good as the Jim Jones "cool-aid"........

[CTFF 65]

The meeting tonight was canceled, the city can't afford to have bobby in a meeting when he is needed to direct traffic.

[Monty 35]

The meeting tonight was canceled, the city can't afford to have bobby in a meeting when he is needed to direct traffic.

and I thought you were joking .....

So, does this mean this drags on for another month with no change?

[CTFF 65]

and I thought you were joking .....

So, does this mean this drags on for another month with no change?

I would never joke about the need for traffic direction.

Not sure what happens from here, maybe the meeting gets rescheduled before the full board meets in February. If that doesn't happen I'm not sure what we'll do as pitchers and catchers can report on the 14th. I guess we should wait till after the world series.

[FD828 77]

Is Bobby officially the public safety director? Thought he had to be approved by the BOR or something first? If not, why does he already have a city vehicle???

[sqd47bfd 20]

First off, I think the fact that at least 8, and probably 9, of the guys voted to go to SFRD is resounding. Secondly, how is a non guaranteed volunteer response better than a 4 person guaranteed response? In addition, an SFRD Engine from a neighboring district still goes on every call in BFDs district, thereby stripping that neighborhood of its resources to cover calls for Belltown. I am not saying that Mayor Malloys plan was perfect, but the residents of Belltown should have a career engine in their district. They went from having 2 career guys, plus a third on weekdays, to zero. This does not sound like the best interests of the district. Unless you count the freeloading that BFD takes from E1,5,6,7,8. Sounds to me like, instead of the best interests of the district and department, those chose the interests of the department OVER the district.

Mr. Strangio,

It is quite a strong statement, and in my eyes, defamatory to the Belltown Fire Department to characterize that department's operations as "freeloading".

And, as such, I think a retraction and an apology is owed.

Yes, it is a given that a city engine is dispatched to just about every call in Belltown. However, in most instances the members of Belltown respond and cancel the incoming mutual aid unit as it is not needed. That city unit then goes back into service, in most cases in a very short span of time from the time they get on the road. And, there have been instances when city units have NOT been automatically dispatched, such as when the dispatchers knew we had the resources on hand to handle the call. Which is pretty smart, actually.

You ask "how is a non guaranteed volunteer response better than a 4 person guaranteed response?" Well, now in the case of E8 or E9 responding into Belltown's district, it is a 3 person guaranteed response, is it not??

And, while Belltown cannot guarantee that there is a manned unit there 24 hours a day, many times when the call comes in, the rigs are headed out with MORE than the 3 or 4 person guaranteed by SFRD.

You accuse Belltown of "stripping resources" ?? Why don't you explain to me then the justification for stripping the neighborhood in the western part of TOR when E9 gets in their rig and drives to Newfield Avenue to shop for their meal at the Grade A Supermarket there. By your logic, any time a crew is not sitting in quarters ready to roll out the door when a call in their first due district comes in, those taxpayers are getting shortchanged.

Now, as far as I know, the amount of tax dollars collected by the city from the residents of the Belltown Fire District in the name of fire protection is more than the city doles back out to the BFD. The remainder is allocated to SFRD to support its operations in the volunteer districts. So, again, the "freeloading" term you used is inappropriate, and just plain wrong. Shameful, really.

I think that, as Captain Hayes put it so well when he wrote, "Staffing volunteer apparatus like the BFD and making them part of the fully staffed career response makes the most sense."

[CTFF 65]

Sqd,

Seeing you've brought up Stripping resources and the letter from Capt Hayes I've got a question.

How do you feel about your fire truck leaving your district for a fire call only to find out the dept you were called into didn't even bother to respond?

CTFF

PS Also what Chief is that in the photo on stamfordfireplan.com ?

[sqd47bfd 20]

Sqd,

Seeing you've brought up Stripping resources and the letter from Capt Hayes I've got a question.

How do you feel about your fire truck leaving your district for a fire call only to find out the dept you were called into didn't even bother to respond?

CTFF

PS Also what Chief is that in the photo on stamfordfireplan.com ?

How do I feel? Well, truth be known all I really care about, personally, is my department and my district. Our department has changed our outgoing mutual aid protocol to responding on automatic mutual aid only to reports of smoke or fire. No more runs outside our district for smells and bells. The membership has shown tremendous commitment by demonstrating a very good turnout to the station when a machine goes out of district on mutual aid. I can speak from personal experience that pretty much every time I have left the barn there is another crew waiting there when I get back from the run. Why is this important to me, and worth mentioning? Well, it demonstrates that even when we go out of our district on mutual aid calls, we are not "stripped".

As far as that picture on that website goes, I do not know who that is. That was taken at a training evolution. The guy with the light colored coat is wearing a black helmet. Are there chiefs that wear black helmets? Not very common. Not to mention the guy is wearing a 45 minute or hour bottle, which is not common in Stamford. And, he is not on air. makes me think he is a fire service instructor supervising the suppression evolution. What's your guess?

[CTFF 65]

Thanks.

No idea who that guy is, I just like how that photo is starting to pop up.

[FD828 77]

And so it continues.....

Advocate Article

[mstrang1 213]

Mr. Strangio,

It is quite a strong statement, and in my eyes, defamatory to the Belltown Fire Department to characterize that department's operations as "freeloading".

And, as such, I think a retraction and an apology is owed.

Yes, it is a given that a city engine is dispatched to just about every call in Belltown. However, in most instances the members of Belltown respond and cancel the incoming mutual aid unit as it is not needed. That city unit then goes back into service, in most cases in a very short span of time from the time they get on the road. And, there have been instances when city units have NOT been automatically dispatched, such as when the dispatchers knew we had the resources on hand to handle the call. Which is pretty smart, actually.

You ask "how is a non guaranteed volunteer response better than a 4 person guaranteed response?" Well, now in the case of E8 or E9 responding into Belltown's district, it is a 3 person guaranteed response, is it not??

And, while Belltown cannot guarantee that there is a manned unit there 24 hours a day, many times when the call comes in, the rigs are headed out with MORE than the 3 or 4 person guaranteed by SFRD.

You accuse Belltown of "stripping resources" ?? Why don't you explain to me then the justification for stripping the neighborhood in the western part of TOR when E9 gets in their rig and drives to Newfield Avenue to shop for their meal at the Grade A Supermarket there. By your logic, any time a crew is not sitting in quarters ready to roll out the door when a call in their first due district comes in, those taxpayers are getting shortchanged.

Now, as far as I know, the amount of tax dollars collected by the city from the residents of the Belltown Fire District in the name of fire protection is more than the city doles back out to the BFD. The remainder is allocated to SFRD to support its operations in the volunteer districts. So, again, the "freeloading" term you used is inappropriate, and just plain wrong. Shameful, really.

I think that, as Captain Hayes put it so well when he wrote, "Staffing volunteer apparatus like the BFD and making them part of the fully staffed career response makes the most sense."

Sqd-

As I understand it, Belltown FD is in the "C" tax district. Downtown SFRD companies cover the A and B tax district. So every time Engine 1,5,6, Truck 1, Rescue 1, or any other downtown unit responds into Belltown, those residents are getting a "free" service. They are paying taxes towards a volunteer dept, and getting the response of a volunteer AND career dept. So, in my opinion, the residents of Belltown, whether they know it or not, are actually freeloading off of the A and B taxpayers.

I am not saying that BFD does not have a decent turnout for calls (worlds better than TOR and SFCo!), but I am saying that those residents are getting "perks". I agree with Captain Hayes as well, but the truth of the matter is, outside of BFD, we are not getting that kind of response. I applaud BFD for stepping up and getting crews out. I do not know the answer, and am not trying to be accusatory, but I wish I knew the qualifications for whoever is showing up on a volunteer rig, from whichever Dept. At the Deep Valley Trail fire, somewhere after 2AM I was talking to a group of 4 or 5 young TOR members, none of which were interior qualified to my knowledge. Maybe a good idea is to inform the SFRD guys about how to quickly and easily identify volunteers who are not interior qualified. It is thought by some that this is purposely avoided, to show that volunteers are showing up, but in reality are limited in what they are trained to do. At tonights Board of Reps meeting, it was reported that there were approx. 80 volunteers at the scene and covering stations for the fire on Christmas Day. Sounds good, right? What was not reported was the level of training of those 80 volunteers. Having untrained or low trained volunteers respond on calls to show a volunteer presence is TRULY shameful, really.

Although I do not know you name, you know my name, and I assume you know that I work at Engine 9. Yes, we leave the district to go shopping, get fuel, run other departmental errands, etc. If there were facilities in Engine 9s district to do these things, we would obviously not have to leave the district. The sad part is, we have been first due from the fuel pumps on Haig Avenue to Long Ridge Road! Absolutely no response from TORFD. A few weeks ago, as mentioned in an earlier post, I was working at Engine 9, and we had 4 calls for the day. I did not see a single volunteer for ANY of those calls. NOT ONE!

[sqd47bfd 20]

Sqd-

As I understand it, Belltown FD is in the "C" tax district. Downtown SFRD companies cover the A and B tax district. So every time Engine 1,5,6, Truck 1, Rescue 1, or any other downtown unit responds into Belltown, those residents are getting a "free" service. They are paying taxes towards a volunteer dept, and getting the response of a volunteer AND career dept. So, in my opinion, the residents of Belltown, whether they know it or not, are actually freeloading off of the A and B taxpayers.

Mr. Strangio,

Again, you insist on characterizing the circumstances in Belltown as "freeloading". And I will re-iterate that I find such a characterization as insulting.

By the way, I think that pretty much all residents of the Belltown Fire District are taxed at the "C/S" rate. This is described as "Basic services plus volunteer fire protection, sanitary sewer, and City garbage collection." The mill rate for this district is $16.28

Yes, the residents of the Belltown Fire District do, as you state, pay taxes towards a volunteer department. But, I do know that a portion of the taxes collected from a resident in the Belltown Fire District in the name of fire protection is also allocated to SFRD to "cover operations in the volunteer districts". So, while it is true that they enjoy the response of a volunteer AND career department, their taxes help pay for both. They are paying their way, and are NOT "freeloaders".

In my opinion, the Belltown FD and it's residents are fortunate to be a part of an automatic mutual aid program that functions very well. City units are dispatched, and respond. If the volunteers in Belltown can muster a sufficient response in a timely manner, the city response is cancelled. If it isn't, the citizens are not shortchanged by not getting a response to their call for help. And, history has proven over and over that the members of Belltown have held up their end of the bargain. Not to mention that in addition to accomplishing our primary mission, which is to safeguard th lives and property of the residents of our district, we also participate in the automatic mutual aid program providing equipment and manpower resources to the district surrounding us.

You probably don't know about it, but whenever there is an incident or fire in the city of Stamford that potentially could tap citywide resources, notifications go out to the BFD members and they man the station. BFD stands ready to answer the call outside their district, even responding downtown if needed. Would you call those people getting the help of the BFD freeloaders?

I am not saying that BFD does not have a decent turnout for calls (worlds better than TOR and SFCo!), but I am saying that those residents are getting "perks". I agree with Captain Hayes as well, but the truth of the matter is, outside of BFD, we are not getting that kind of response. I applaud BFD for stepping up and getting crews out. I do not know the answer, and am not trying to be accusatory, but I wish I knew the qualifications for whoever is showing up on a volunteer rig, from whichever Dept. At the Deep Valley Trail fire, somewhere after 2AM I was talking to a group of 4 or 5 young TOR members, none of which were interior qualified to my knowledge. Maybe a good idea is to inform the SFRD guys about how to quickly and easily identify volunteers who are not interior qualified. It is thought by some that this is purposely avoided, to show that volunteers are showing up, but in reality are limited in what they are trained to do. At tonights Board of Reps meeting, it was reported that there were approx. 80 volunteers at the scene and covering stations for the fire on Christmas Day. Sounds good, right? What was not reported was the level of training of those 80 volunteers. Having untrained or low trained volunteers respond on calls to show a volunteer presence is TRULY shameful, really.

"PERKS" ??? Please elaborate on this.

As far as how to identify ability levels, definitely something worth looking into.

I have seen departments use different color frontpieces, different color entry tags, etc.

Can I ask what you mean by "low trained" volunteers responding on calls?

And, at least from my experience, an untrained volunteer in Belltown has a great big orange frontpiece on their shield. This is how we quickly identify who is trained and who is not. You will see these members on our rigs responding to calls. This is how they gain eperience. We don't send our members to an academy and then they hit the street. They arent on a call "to show a volunteer presence", they are there to learn and contribute in any way they can. Whats wrong with that?

Although I do not know you name, you know my name, and I assume you know that I work at Engine 9. Yes, we leave the district to go shopping, get fuel, run other departmental errands, etc. If there were facilities in Engine 9s district to do these things, we would obviously not have to leave the district. The sad part is, we have been first due from the fuel pumps on Haig Avenue to Long Ridge Road! Absolutely no response from TORFD. A few weeks ago, as mentioned in an earlier post, I was working at Engine 9, and we had 4 calls for the day. I did not see a single volunteer for ANY of those calls. NOT ONE!

I am not saying there is anything wrong with leaving the district for shopping, fuel, etcetera. What I am saying is that the district is "stripped" when you do so, by using your definition of the term in an earlier post. And, while I am aware of the situation in TOR, that's not germane to the discussion I am having with you here, most specifically in your labelling the BFD and the residents of it's district as freeloaders.

[FFPCogs 863]

B,

Thanks for the link to the article. Quite frankly I do have mixed feelings about it because although I am one who believes in equal standards, I also believe that time served and experience should have a place in promotions as well. It seems Spotsylvania like just about everywhere else has issues when it comes to combining the career and volunteer sectors.

What I find hard to understand is the insistence on the immediate implemetation of the regulations without a "grandfather" clause. I can think of at least one major area locally in which such a clause was insisted upon by the Local, that being medical certifications. When Stamford went to medical first responses those long serving union members that didn't want to take the classes and attain the certification didn't have to due to their years of service and seniority. And how about the State of CTs stance on FF1 certification that states if you were a serving FF prior to 1977 you can be automatically grandfathered as FF 1, (1986 for Officer 1)? Now I have no idea about this Chiefs qualifications other than to say that 48 years is a long time to serve if he's incompetent. I tend to believe that while stagnation is certainly a possibility, and even if Spotsylvania is a small backwater, in 48 years I'm sure he gained some valuable and applicable experience that will now be wasted. And let's face it he must also have had the support of his department and community to remain in such a position for so long.

It's been my experience that allowances are made for those with long service records when implementing such changes on both sides of the career/volunteer divide, so to put this down to simple volunteer intransigence is somewhat hypocritical.

Cogs

Edited February 9, 2011 by FFPCogs

[FFPCogs 863]

Mr. Strangio,

I will have to sound off here as well.

I may be considered alot of things but a "freeloader" is not one of them, especially when it comes to performing my duty as a FF. I can say with all sincerity and confidence that the same applies to my fellow BFD members as well. Also as sqd47bfd has pointed out and was addressed at last night's hearing, the residents of Belltown and all the volunteer districts for that matter are paying their part of the bill for SFRDs services.

The sad part is, we have been first due from the fuel pumps on Haig Avenue to Long Ridge Road! Absolutely no response from TORFD. A few weeks ago, as mentioned in an earlier post, I was working at Engine 9, and we had 4 calls for the day. I did not see a single volunteer for ANY of those calls. NOT ONE!

And this is what we and the Mayor are trying to remedy.

While you may not agree with the current direction of that remedy you can rest assured in the knowledge that we are working diligently to relieve SFRD from the burdens they face "up North".

Cogs

Edited February 9, 2011 by FFPCogs