Stamford working fire, November 16, 2008

[jcoppola 52]

Looked like a large wood frame in very close proximity to more of the same. Take into consideration some pretty savage winds blowing at the time. I also saw a few cars involved from my vantage point. Looked like a really tough job to get a handle on.

Joe

[markmets415 524]

was it one large L shaped building or multiple structures involved? That A/c unit sure looks like it was ready to take the plunge at any time.

Nice shots!!

Edited November 17, 2008 by markmets415

[Geppetto 31]

Fire damages South End warehouse, homes

By Devon Lash

Stamford Advocate 11/16/2008

STAMFORD - An abandoned Cedar Street warehouse went up in flames Sunday afternoon, spreading to four buildings and two garages before it was subdued. No injuries were reported, said Deputy Chief Tim Conroy of Stamford Fire & Rescue....

http://www.stamfordadvocate.com/ci_11000228

[Jason762 2]

was it one large L shaped building or multiple structures involved? That A/c unit sure looks like it was ready to take the plunge at any time.

Nice shots!!

The original fire building was one large building (not L shaped) just straight and long that was fully involved upon arrival. Exposure B was a lot but the radiant heat transmitted across the lot and melted the siding right off the house. A very good stop by the first arriving engine to protect this house. Exposure D was a large wood frame OMD which was heavily involved upon arrival Not far from the C/D corner was a very large wood frame row house, another good stop this time by the second arriving engine. Box trucks across the street had caught fire prior to arrival due to the high winds and a house several hundred yards away was damaged by radiant heat. Many 2 1/2" and 2" line were in operation as well as several apparatus mounted deck guns and 2 ladder pipes. Lots of hard work by all involved saved this from becoming a real disaster.

Edited November 17, 2008 by Jason762

[JRS2817 1]

the a/c unit probably didn't stay long with a deck gun aimed straight at it

[Geppetto 31]

City seeks cause of warehouse blaze

By Devon Lash

Stamford Advocate

11/18/2008

STAMFORD - The fire marshal's office may have a preliminary conclusion today about what caused a fire that destroyed an empty warehouse and other buildings in the South End Sunday afternoon. ...

http://www.stamfordadvocate.com/localnews/ci_11011624

[eckyphats 0]

I have seen a lot of pics from this fire.. great job protecting the exposures by the Stamford City brothers.....it could have been much worse with the close proximity of buildings and the wind..

Edited November 18, 2008 by eckyphats

[pjreilly 6]

I have seen a lot of pics from this fire.. great job protecting the exposures by the Stamford City brothers.....it could have been much worse with the close proximity of buildings and the wind..

Tell that to the loud mouth vollies that are bashing the city Department, calling for an investigation. Investigate this...Asphalt shingles, abandoned warehouse with no utilities to it,30-40 mph winds, building of origin fully involved upon arrival....discuss.

[x152 179]

Tell that to the loud mouth vollies that are bashing the city Department, calling for an investigation. Investigate this...Asphalt shingles, abandoned warehouse with no utilities to it,30-40 mph winds, building of origin fully involved upon arrival....discuss.

To be fair, the article has been posted for all to see some of what PJ is referring to (the relevant part is at the end of the article):

STAMFORD - The fire marshal's office may have a preliminary conclusion today about what caused a fire that destroyed an empty warehouse and other buildings in the South End Sunday afternoon.

Assistant Fire Marshal Charles Spaulding said the warehouse at 45 Cedar St. was securely boarded up since 2005, and its power line had been removed.

"Without having someone that was living there or operating there, we are dependent upon the evidence we find and the evidence that we learn of," Spaulding said. "We have to cross our T's and dot our I's now."

The fire, which began about 1:45 p.m., destroyed one neighboring house and damaged another. Two garages and at least seven vehicles also were destroyed. There were no injuries, fire officials said Sunday.

About 22 people were displaced, a Red Cross representative said.

The warehouse most recently housed medical supplies, such as wheelchairs and canes, Spaulding said. It is owned by Cedar Street Associates LLC, which has an office at 126 Woodside Green.

The company's principal, James Tooher, also the owner of Tooher Appraisal Services of 126 Woodside Green, said he had approvals to turn the warehouse into six condominiums.

"I am devastated by the loss of the building and the damage to surrounding properties," Tooher wrote in an e-mail message.

His plans for the building were intended to "preserve the historic structure and improve the neighborhood," Tooher wrote.

The project was unrelated to Harbor Point, the 80-acre South End development, he said.

It is too soon to say what he plans for the property now, Tooher said.

Spaulding said officials determined Monday that the two-story house at 43 Cedar St., next door to the warehouse, will have to be razed because it is structurally unsound.

The other home, at 49 Cedar St., had only external damage to the siding and windows, he said. The owner hopes it will be occupied by next week.

"Their power and water utilities were unaffected," Spaulding said about the latter property.

Firefighters and police officers were still at work Monday afternoon securing the scene to ensure the integrity of the investigation and because the fire smoldered throughout the night, he said.

Stamford Fire & Rescue called the Springdale volunteer fire departments to cover its downtown firehouses while city firefighters battled the Cedar Street blaze, Springdale Chief Shawn Fahan said.

That left only volunteers to cover his Springdale district for several hours, Fahan said. The Springdale firehouse has volunteers and paid city firefighters.

Fahan said Stamford Fire & Rescue contradicted itself by calling for aid from volunteer firehouses.

"We had to help out Stamford Fire & Rescue, and they're always saying that we're no good," Fahan said. "But I guess on Sunday we were OK."

The city and the volunteers are battling for control of the fire districts. Last year, city officials called for a consolidation of volunteers and the paid fire department to improve service and save money. The volunteer departments have autonomy under the city Charter but rely on taxpayers' money and paid firefighters to staff their stations.

Fahan called for an investigation into the Cedar Street fire because four structures went ablaze by the time city firefighters doused the flames.

An Oct. 4 fire in North Stamford, the Long Ridge district, nearly destroyed a $2.4 million house, prompting city officials to question the response by Long Ridge volunteers. The city has hired a consultant to investigate the response to the fire on Mill Spring Lane.

Fahan asked whether the city will do the same for the Cedar Street fire.

"The city should answer to someone," Fahan said. "They want the volunteers to answer to the city, but who's the city answering to when something happens? They don't answer to anyone. Any mistakes get covered up."

Stamford Fire & Rescue Chief Robert McGrath declined to comment on whether the city will investigate the Cedar Street fire. He directed questions to Director of Public Safety William Callion, who hired the firm to review the Mill Spring Lane fire.

[Remember585 815]

I'd say squatters and/or arson. Anyone want to make a wager?

As for the volunteer / paid thing - I'll stay out of it - not my thing.

[jcoppola 52]

Even a job that was pretty much gone on arrival has to be turned into a paid/volunteer thing. Unreal. I was there and I can attest as a neutral 3rd party, that SFRD did everything they could considering the factors they were dealing with. They had trucks protecting exposures and all hands working to keep the fire in check. C'mon guys, can't we just give credit where due and move on??? Had I known where this would go, I would have kept my wacker pictures to myself...

[FFPCogs 863]

Sorry to butt in:

No one died or was injured

Every FF on scene went home alive and uninjured

Job well done !!

Cogs

[x152 179]

Joe and Pete:

Thanks for the comments.

Joe - You know about what is said about the road to hell, right?

Pete - I guess you are getting a better understanding as to where things are at?

It is unfortunate that the some (and I stress SOME), would attempt their "quid-pro-quo" using this scenario.

I can understand the animosity that is taking hold of the many fire service agencies within Stamford, but I become quite concerned when individuals (such as Mr. Fahan) try and equate this fire to separate incident.

Sadly, Mr. Fahan's remarks and opinion are merely the equivalent of some drunk at the end of the bar, who tries to tell Bill Belechek on how to coach the Patriots. He does not possess the knowledge, training or experience to judge anyone.

Given his turbulent history as "Chief" of that Department, his reputation is well known in Stamford and throughout the area. None of us should be too surprised at outrageous statements by him, but he appears to be trying to outdo himself this time.

I would welcome a review of this fire (or any incident that we respond to) . I am pretty confident that any Fire Service Professional would conclude that the actions of the Stamford Fire and Rescue Department prevented significant loss to that entire area. Having worked in that neighborhood for a number of years, I am amazed that the fire was contained to the area that it was. Although exposures were damaged, many will be repaired. The exposure directly to the right will probably be razed, but the possession of many occupants can be salvaged. For the majority of those occupants, the possessions are all they have. No injuries or Fatalities?

Save Life - Protect Property? Yeah, I'd say the SFRD accomplished that.

I am still wondering what type of response and tactic Mr. Fahan would have chosen? If anyone can help me with this, please elaborate. Would love to hear from you Shawn, I mean Chief.

Thanks-

Matt P.

[Jason762 2]

Tell that to the loud mouth vollies that are bashing the city Department, calling for an investigation. Investigate this...Asphalt shingles, abandoned warehouse with no utilities to it,30-40 mph winds, building of origin fully involved upon arrival....discuss.

PJ,

The difference is on the Advocate website you can post as many times as you want with as many screen names as you want with no accountability. It does make me sick though to see the ridiculous opinions and accusations of individuals who not only were not at the fire, but don't protect urban area where exposure problems are a huge issue, have never even been to a fire of this magnitude or possibly any real structure fire at all other than the ones where they stand in the yard with a hook and go in afterwards to do "overhaul" (I've seen it with my own two eyes), yet call for investigations and tell us how we should have fought a fire. I guess anytime there is a significant fire downtown someone will be calling for an investigation. I for one hope there is one, here's a preview of what they'll find out.

1. Initial structure 100% involved upon arrival

2. Exposure D 50% involved upon arrival

3. Exposure B had a small lot between it and the main fire building, and had heavy fire on the outside wall starting to enter the eaves upon arrival

4. Winds were high

5. Multiple vehicles parked up against the 100% involved building

6. Several box trucks across the street were exposed to radiant heat and direct flame contact due to high winds

7. At least one (possibly more) detached garages on fire uopn arrival

As a result one building burned down, exposure D uninhabitable, exposure B exterior damage but easily repairable, detached garages damaged but standing, several vehicles burned, one box truck burned, one building way down the street sustained radiant heat damage to vinyl siding as well. When all was said and done little or no damage was done to a long wood frame row house in close proximity to the original fire building, several box trucks, the B side exposure house.

Most importantly of all no firefighters were injured!!

[Guest]

Matt, I wouldn't take the allegations made by Chief Fahan to the Advocate too seriously. From my understanding, after reading the article and after looking at the pictures of the fire, I think any intelligent non-biased members of this forum can agree that under the circumstances SFRD's efforts at that fire were nothing short of amazing. Given the very windy conditions, coupled with the age, type of structures and close location of those buildings, SFRD did a stellar job, undoubtedly saving millions of dollars in property and without a single casualty. For those of you who are unfamiliar with that area of Stamford, it is basically all industrial with many, many old abandoned buildings, with numerous tightly spaced residences in between.

This fire could have started hours before anyone would know from the outside of the building resulting in an intense and stubborn fire upon the arrival of the initial units. The fact that you guys were able to save so many of the surrounding structures with, for the most part, minimal damage is a real example of the fantastic training, knowledge and dedication of the firefighters and command of SFRD.

To have a "Chief" with little first hand knowledge of the events at the scene (other than hearsay around the dinner table) to criticize the efforts of your men and women at that fire is, for lack of a better term, a joke. Right now, the leadership of Springdale is trying nothing more than to take as many stabs at the City as they possibly can. Like you noted in your posting, it is not only unfair, but unrealistic to compare the Long Ridge fire with the South End fire. Different place, different circumstances and a different outcome. Not knowing the specific facts of the Long Ridge fire, I'll leave it at that, but for him to essentially accuse SFRD of not doing their job is outrageous given the result of your efforts

In previous times, I have defended SFCo from what I perceived as false and unfair criticism, from some members of this forum, but now a few years later, I must state that in this instance I couldn't agree with you guys more. As a "member" of this failing organization, I am disgusted in what it has come to. I joined the department under much better times (All of my service, btw having been while SFRD and E-7 were up at Springdale) where I was able to learn and experience real fire service and training from both you and the very good volunteer members that were present then (but are no longer involved or have passed away). Unfortunately, with my choice of remaining open minded and accepting training tips from everyone (SFCo & SFRD the same) and my failure to adopt the party line of the Dictatorship of Springdale's resulted in my becoming an outcast of Springdale.

In the past, I have defended the previous training standards of SFCo to some members of this forum and was told that I was the exception to the rule. I now realize that this couldn't have been truer. Most (but not all) current active Members of SFCo (and this is based on my personal experiences and is solely just my opinion) seem to be more concerned with Politics and Parades rather than fire training and safety. Now being out of the Springdale game for quite some time as I've been away at school, have realized that the leadership of my department is an embarrassment. If you are not part of their "group or clique" you might as well quit or you will suffer. I could sit here for hours and tell you experiences that I have had (and I'm sure that any SFRD member that has EVER come in contact with me can vouch) where because of my "association and friendliness" with SFRD members I have been singled out for abuse and hardship.

These hardships extend even further from the times that I was really considered an "Active" member to the present day where SFCo leadership (due to personal vendettas by the officers in charge) have taken the spiteful and damaging step to give me less than satisfactory reviews and negative work recommendations (stating they would not recommend me for hire) to career agencies that I have applied to and hope to pursue. Unfortunately, I have had to spend hours with perspective employers explaining alleged "disciplinary violations" I committed while a member of Springdale ( the most serious of which involved having been disciplined for sharing a bunk room with members who were accused of leaving it a mess - which resulted in my subsequent "suspension of sleeping privileges", and the fact that I was present when other members were making noise at night, including members of the clique who surpisingly were not "disciplined"). Pretty serious stuff indeed!

Rest assured, the battle with these individuals will be long and drawn out, but in the end whats best for the city will prevail. What these guys don't seem to understand is that Fire Protection is not a game. To them, this is a hobby, something that they do not want to loose. From the citizens of Stamford (and I speak really only with knowledge of Springdale, and considering my family are still residents of Springdale I guess I can play from either perspective you prefer),

We don't want our houses to burn down. I want to know FOR SURE that if myself or a family member of mine needs immediate emergency care (Fire or Medical) that the highest quality of personnel will respond. I don't want some Know-Nothing kid or officer-wannabe coming and doing CPR on me or pulling my family out of a fire , I want someone with proper training, knowledge and experience to do his or her best to save my @$$. Plain and Simple.This is not about paid or volunteer - its about responders who are well trained!

Again I apologize for the ignorance of the leadership of a department that I am still "on the rolls" for. I wrote this response because I want members of this board who are either not from the area or perceive this as SFRD vs SFCo to know an understand the perspectives that SFRD members share on this view are not just Paid bashing Vollie incidents, they are real problems. Can't really argue my posting, Call it Vollie Exposing Truth if you like because that is what it truly is.

Oh and as for seeing another SFCo representative on this forum, I can assure you that they absolutely do visit this site (knowing this because of I got quite a bit of flack from last posting about SFCo) but I highly doubt they would have the courage or just plain ability to write a proper response that would argue their side. They are not looking to argue with knowledgeable people, they are only good at making whispering snide statement and are then too cowardly to back it up in person, hence their constant use of the Stamford Advocate to relay criticism.

Ill back up whatever I say to the fullest of my capacity either publicly on this forum or however you would like. Please feel free to PM me or even call me if you think something I have stated in this posting it either unfair, untrue or unfounded. Ill be waiting.

Hope all is well with you guys since I don’t get to see many of you anymore.

Best Regards,

Mark Xylas

Edited November 19, 2008 by FireRescue77

[Paul J DeBartolomeo 0]

Nice Pictures Wallie. LOL You Buff

[Guest]

Sorry to butt in:

No one died or was injured

Every FF on scene went home alive and uninjured

Job well done !!

Cogs

ditto

[x152 179]

Mark:

No, nothing in your post was unfair or biased, etc.

You have and will contain to remain an example of what "was" at Springdale. Prior to the "war years", there was a good relationship between the career and most of the volunteers.

There is no greater crime than watching some of the current malcontents spend all of their time in an endless and pointless fight.

There comes a time when most any man would realize that they have wasted their own time, their organization's time, and the people's time and shift gears.

Good leaders know when it is time to end a cycle and try a different approach.

The Definition of Insanity - Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a new result......

I think it speaks volumes for one's ability to lead if they fail to understand that basic principal. I could go on with my opinion(s) of Mr. Fahan, but I think I got my point across in the previous post.

It is very good to hear from you and see that the LI experience has certainly paid off for you. I will refrain from further comments and send you a PM.

[eckyphats 0]

Tell that to the loud mouth vollies that are bashing the city Department, calling for an investigation. Investigate this...Asphalt shingles, abandoned warehouse with no utilities to it,30-40 mph winds, building of origin fully involved upon arrival....discuss.

do you have a link to wat you are talking about? haven't heard anything about this....

no one should be bashing the city on this job, it was a great job all around, and yeah I am going to say it, if it had happened in north stamford would it have been the same result? who knows.....

[Guest]

do you have a link to wat you are talking about? haven't heard anything about this....

no one should be bashing the city on this job, it was a great job all around, and yeah I am going to say it, if it had happened in north stamford would it have been the same result? who knows.....

Eck if you go online to the Stamford advocate.com and either click on one of the stories or on the left of the page there is a link named "forum" that will take you to the for mentioned issues of paid and vol bashing that is occuring. And I have to agree with Jason at least with this site there is some accountability.....someone knows who you really are and you can't get away with the crap that is going on on that forum.

So if you want to get an instant headache or lose your lunch venture on over to the site..better yet here is a link:

http://www.topix.net/forum/source/stamford...6BLS9R01U3CV4UQ

DJ

Oh and one more VERY IMPORTANT thing...make sure you type stamfordadvocate.com....I forgot to type in stamford one time and let's just say I didn't like where I was sent....shut up PJ, Jason, and Matt :angry:

[pjreilly 6]

DOH!!!

[Geppetto 31]

Fire marshal: Someone ignited blaze

By Devon Lash

Stamford Advocate

11/19/2008

STAMFORD - A person started the fire that destroyed an empty Cedar Street warehouse and other South End buildings Sunday, though it is unclear whether the act was deliberate or accidental, a fire marshal said. ...

http://www.stamfordadvocate.com/localnews/ci_11019556

[Jason762 2]

Oh and one more VERY IMPORTANT thing...make sure you type stamfordadvocate.com....I forgot to type in stamford one time and let's just say I didn't like where I was sent....shut up PJ, Jason, and Matt mad.gif

DJ,

I heard you are a registered user on that site???

[Guest]

DJ,

I heard you are a registered user on that site???

Yeah well there is only one way YOU WOULD KNOW RIGHT JAY ???