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My opinion. It seems when it comes to this incident and numbers, people seem seem to get stuck with certain numbers. Not picking anyone out of the crowd, it seems everybody does it. Take the Cops. There were 60 cops LODD. But, that is not how anyone usually refers to the numbers. They will usually say 23 NYPD LODD and 37 PA NY/NJ LODD. How often do you hear someone say 60 cops were killed? Rarely will anyone reference the "60" number. It is almost always broken down by Department. I do not know why people tend to break down the numbers that way, but they do. They have, it seems, almost from 9/11 itself. Let the number "343" stand if you want the number to refer to the number of FDNY LODD. But, if you are going to reference the number of firefighters LODD, that number should be "344".

The New York Fire Patrol used this building after Ladder 49 left. It was the quarters for Fire Patrol # 6 from 1949 until 1955. In 1955 the NYFP closed Patrol 6.

The former quarters of NY Fire Patrol # 2, located on W 3st in Manhattan is now owned by Anderson Cooper. Here are a couple of photos since he renovated the place. The photo with the rig is from when it was still in service.

The nose looks like a '50's era Dodge Power Wagon. ...but the cab/roofline and doors look like it is from a '60s VW bus. I do not know about the winch.

These cars are not for routine patrol. They are not assigned as precinct sector cars. Most are assigned to Traffic Enforcement and many are operated by Traffic Agents. They are assigned to precincts, but are primarily used for summons duty and traffic enforcement. They are not used to answer emergency calls, transport prisoners or complainants, or any normal patrol function. They are utilized in limited patrol settings, such as parks and boardwalks where traditional RMP's may encounter difficulties. They are replacing the three-wheeled scooters. These vehicles have the following advantages over a three-wheeled scooter: real heat, A/C, better seating for operator and the ability to seat more than one person, more storage, am/fm radio, seatbelts, airbag, side-impact protection, require no mcy license to drive, ...and I am sure a few other benefits. oh, and they cost about $2,500 less than a three-wheeled scooter.

The main problem is power. The perception of power at least. The savings of taxpayer money, no matter how great, will likely factor-in very little in these discussions. ...if any discussions, the people in power will not talk very long about this subject, because: No one is going to want to give up the keys to their fiefdom, no matter how small it is. However many Kingdoms there are in Westchester, will remain. (...and not just Westchester, the same consolidation arguments can be applied in many places, but common sense will not reign.)

I am not knocking the Port Authority for the job they do. They have a job to do, and most of them do it admirably. The problem is the pay. If anyone thinks, no matter how much O/T is worked, that any cop deserves 300-400K a year is out of their minds. Surgeons do not get paid that much. Stories like this are why there is much flack over cops salaries in general. Never mind the stories that will come about when the public learns of the pensions that salary will generate. ...and cops wonder why the anti-pension movement is gaining steam. I have been in LE for 35+ years, and yes, I would like a raise. I would like to ask for 300 Thousand a year. If they gave it to me I would think they were out of their minds.

What could possibly go wrong?

The most telling part of the story is the fact they cannot get the manpower to get their equipment out the door. It is a simple fact that # of runs, need, usage, or any other factor will not change.

While I have no problem with setting standards for jobs, it should be noted that Assistant Chief Kim Royster spent the majority of her career in 1 Police Plaza, and I mean that literarily. She was a cop assigned to patrol for only a short time and was assigned to 1 Police Plaza. After making boss, she was reassigned to 1PP, and with each subsequent advance, she stayed there, or worked in some other 1PP outpost such as the old academy. I am not saying I have all the answers, I do not. But, I would like to say it is nice to hear such "experienced" street cops tell everyone else how it should be done.

Dinosaur wrote: " State law in CA has all police cars black and white " This is a Newport Beach California car. I am not familiar with California law, but I have been to California on a few occasions, and while the vast majority of Police cars there are B&W, I have seen a few that were not B&W. This example is the first photo I found on a Google search, but there are a few other examples.

americanpolice posted: "ever so closer to the NYPD scheme" This is not the first time they went to an NYPD look. If I recall, going back to the early 80s or maybe even the 1970s, the predecessor to the the DEP Police, the NYC Bureau of Water Supply Police, had cars with the same white over blue scheme the NYPD had at that time. This had the same shade blue (Great Northern Blue) the NYPD had with the single white stripe along the body. I tried finding a photo on line to no avail.

Why does this vehicle have official plates? I though Police Vehicles were not required to have DMV plates in NYS? I looked back at older images, I see the DEP Police have had Official Plates on their vehicles for a while. I never noticed that before. I am trying to think if any other agency in NYS has plates issued by DMV on their marked vehicles. I know NYSP have plates from DMV, but those plates have the radio call # on it, these plates seem to be regular issue municipal plates.

16fire5 called it in his post. The term "All Hands" (officially a Signal 7-5) usually is transmitted after a 10-75 has been requested. A 10-75 is not only for fire. It can be used for any response. It is simply a resource request, not meaning working fire, although that is the most common usage. It is simply a request for the following: (copied from the NYFD.com site) "A notification signal transmitted when, in the judgment of the officer in command, conditions indicate a fire or emergency that requires a total response of the following units: 4 Engines, 2 Ladders, 2 Battalion Chiefs, 1 Rescue Company and Squad Company. Officers transmitting a 10-75 shall also state if it is for a fire or emergency and if a building is involved along with the type of building." If these units respond and all are put to work, then the Signal 7-5 is transmitted. Although, the term you would hear on the radio would be "All Hands" are operating. If the 10-75 is given and as an example, in the end, only 2 engines and 2 trucks are "put to work", the "All Hands" designation would not be used.

My comment was not meant to take a side, volunteer or paid, or Fire management or City administration. In most pizzing matches, the blame and the incompetence, is usually spread out amongst all parties. I doubt that dynamic is any different in this matter. It seems this has been going on for a while. The involved parties do not seem to be interested in solving this issue. Like I said before, unless the media gets behind this and pushes the issue, causing the public to have an opinion, nothing will change.

I do not know all the details, but there is enough information in the story to state this is nothing more than a pizzing match. Once the adults involved realize this, this can be easily solved by those involved. Anyone who has kids has dealt with similar situations. But, what are the chances the departments or the local politicians will actually work this out? If the local press pushes it, they may be forced to find the solution, otherwise this will continue.

It sounds like there is much more to this story. ...and it is comprised of five members? ...and there is a new Fire Department? ...there is much more to this story.

"In January the Town refused to pay Harrison EMS until we showed them our financials (they have no right to look at our financial, HEMS is private not-for-profit org not a town entity)." This quote, if true, is troubling. I have to back the town on this. If that is the attitude of the management of an agency that receives town money, the town can probably do better looking elsewhere. If this statement is true, it is a signal that this is much more than a pizzing match between the town and a few EMS members. If they are taking town money, then they are answerable to the town. This makes it look like HEMS is hiding something. Anyone looking at this is going to come to this conclusion. ...and, not to mention the obvious, but wasn't there a few agencies up bit up the road who are now going through some rather complicated, embarrassing and possible criminal investigations regarding questionable use of public money?

The simple truth is, if someone, anyone, had taken command, it is likely everyone else would have followed. I did not hear this incident, but from what I am reading, it sounds like no one was in charge. Some solutions, such as a Marine Battalion, while sounding good, only add another layer to bureaucracy to it. A complicated incident does not need additional layers. Just my opinion, but a good rule of thumb for establishing command would be the boss of the first agency that gets the original call is in charge, and remains in charge unless and until a reason comes up that justifies a change. If the location or jurisdiction, is in question, the command stays with the original responding agency until the jurisdiction is positively determined. It makes no sense to change unless there is a valid reason. This would eliminate the some of the guesswork and would, at the minimum, have everyone answering to the same authority, even if it changed later on, at least the ballgame starts with everyone on the same page. These are just my thoughts, I have seen similar things before, and they will likely occur again.

x636 wrote: In the tight areas of Putnam, the first due has to get close to the scene, especially in tight areas, and having that Quint first due allows it to get to the fire scene before it gets trapped in by hose and a tanker shuttle. Responses in Carmel prior to this rig was always an Engine was first out the door. Even when their last Ladder was in service, the ladder was not the first one to roll. Unless Carmel is changing their response policy, I do not think this is the first due rig. I have not heard of this truck will be used as a Quint. I could be wrong, does anyone know if this will be the case?

I always wondered what was the point of having a ladder truck with its own pump and a tank. Are the added cost and weight on the truck worth it? I have no idea how much this cost extra, but I doubt it is a nominal fee. Plenty of places use trucks with no pumping capacity and no water tank. Why do some have no pump/tank? Is there a big advantage to combining the pump/ladder?

The fact that you are asking on this forum and the fact that the cars are left in the driveways indicates the problem is your Department does not have a plan "B" . The problem is not what to do with the Command vehicles. The problem is to fix the management who cannot figure out you always need to have a plan "B". Once that is solved, the issue of who gets the Command vehicles will solve itself.

This is a more likely scenario than stopping someone for an inspection.

SECTMB wrote: "Lots of people with NYDOCCS across their backs. Like the public is supposed to know what that means. What's wrong with just plain POLICE. Agencies and their acronyms." I see your point about confusion, but the reason why just plain "Police" should not be used is that Corrections Officers are not Police. The term Police should only be used with Police. They can put "Corrections" across their backs if they want.

So far, it appears most of these questions regarding drones are "hypothetical". It appears not very much enforcement has gone into drone regulation. There have been a few "near misses" regarding drones. When, not if, a drone is involved in an incident, whether it be an accident or recklessness, and that time is coming soon, you will see a host of new regulations regarding their use. As of right now, nothing major has happened. Give it some time, and when that happens, there will be all kinds of rules and enforcement.