FiftyOnePride

As the Second Asst. Chief of the Millerton Fire Company, we would like to thank all the fire companies that were involved in the mitigation of today's incident whether it was standby duty at another firehouse or directly involved in the actual extrication. So a big thanks to the Amenia, Wassaic, Stanford, Millbrook, Dover, and Lakeville fire companies. Also a tip of the lid to CC-14, CC-16, DCSO, NYSP, and the cattle farmers who were there to assist with the cows: all provided invaluable assistance.
This was a particularly tough extrication all around, because not only was it an auto accident with entrapment but it also basically a simpler man in the machine type scenario, the two fused together to make one interesting call. I was first on scene and was able to take it all in before the organized chaos ensued. A flatbed truck driven straight underneath 5-tons of machinery. All the stability was taken away from the hopper and transferred to the building and the vehicle itself. The driver was encapsulated basically but unharmed. Literally just in his seat, no way to move one way or the other. As you can imagine by the photos stabilization was the biggest issue which is why a multitude of rescues were brought in, for their cribbing alone, but also for air bags and the other specialty equipment they could provide. Once that was accomplished the actual extrication was easy. As you can tell in the photo slide we removed a back rack and the rear part of the passengers cab and the driver was able to self extricate basically from that point.
All involved stated that this was one that you could not really train for, and despite its many challenges I can say that I am proud of the outcome and way in which the incident was mitigated.

As the Second Asst. Chief of the Millerton Fire Company, we would like to thank all the fire companies that were involved in the mitigation of today's incident whether it was standby duty at another firehouse or directly involved in the actual extrication. So a big thanks to the Amenia, Wassaic, Stanford, Millbrook, Dover, and Lakeville fire companies. Also a tip of the lid to CC-14, CC-16, DCSO, NYSP, and the cattle farmers who were there to assist with the cows: all provided invaluable assistance.
This was a particularly tough extrication all around, because not only was it an auto accident with entrapment but it also basically a simpler man in the machine type scenario, the two fused together to make one interesting call. I was first on scene and was able to take it all in before the organized chaos ensued. A flatbed truck driven straight underneath 5-tons of machinery. All the stability was taken away from the hopper and transferred to the building and the vehicle itself. The driver was encapsulated basically but unharmed. Literally just in his seat, no way to move one way or the other. As you can imagine by the photos stabilization was the biggest issue which is why a multitude of rescues were brought in, for their cribbing alone, but also for air bags and the other specialty equipment they could provide. Once that was accomplished the actual extrication was easy. As you can tell in the photo slide we removed a back rack and the rear part of the passengers cab and the driver was able to self extricate basically from that point.
All involved stated that this was one that you could not really train for, and despite its many challenges I can say that I am proud of the outcome and way in which the incident was mitigated.

As the Second Asst. Chief of the Millerton Fire Company, we would like to thank all the fire companies that were involved in the mitigation of today's incident whether it was standby duty at another firehouse or directly involved in the actual extrication. So a big thanks to the Amenia, Wassaic, Stanford, Millbrook, Dover, and Lakeville fire companies. Also a tip of the lid to CC-14, CC-16, DCSO, NYSP, and the cattle farmers who were there to assist with the cows: all provided invaluable assistance.
This was a particularly tough extrication all around, because not only was it an auto accident with entrapment but it also basically a simpler man in the machine type scenario, the two fused together to make one interesting call. I was first on scene and was able to take it all in before the organized chaos ensued. A flatbed truck driven straight underneath 5-tons of machinery. All the stability was taken away from the hopper and transferred to the building and the vehicle itself. The driver was encapsulated basically but unharmed. Literally just in his seat, no way to move one way or the other. As you can imagine by the photos stabilization was the biggest issue which is why a multitude of rescues were brought in, for their cribbing alone, but also for air bags and the other specialty equipment they could provide. Once that was accomplished the actual extrication was easy. As you can tell in the photo slide we removed a back rack and the rear part of the passengers cab and the driver was able to self extricate basically from that point.
All involved stated that this was one that you could not really train for, and despite its many challenges I can say that I am proud of the outcome and way in which the incident was mitigated.

As the Second Asst. Chief of the Millerton Fire Company, we would like to thank all the fire companies that were involved in the mitigation of today's incident whether it was standby duty at another firehouse or directly involved in the actual extrication. So a big thanks to the Amenia, Wassaic, Stanford, Millbrook, Dover, and Lakeville fire companies. Also a tip of the lid to CC-14, CC-16, DCSO, NYSP, and the cattle farmers who were there to assist with the cows: all provided invaluable assistance.
This was a particularly tough extrication all around, because not only was it an auto accident with entrapment but it also basically a simpler man in the machine type scenario, the two fused together to make one interesting call. I was first on scene and was able to take it all in before the organized chaos ensued. A flatbed truck driven straight underneath 5-tons of machinery. All the stability was taken away from the hopper and transferred to the building and the vehicle itself. The driver was encapsulated basically but unharmed. Literally just in his seat, no way to move one way or the other. As you can imagine by the photos stabilization was the biggest issue which is why a multitude of rescues were brought in, for their cribbing alone, but also for air bags and the other specialty equipment they could provide. Once that was accomplished the actual extrication was easy. As you can tell in the photo slide we removed a back rack and the rear part of the passengers cab and the driver was able to self extricate basically from that point.
All involved stated that this was one that you could not really train for, and despite its many challenges I can say that I am proud of the outcome and way in which the incident was mitigated.

As the Second Asst. Chief of the Millerton Fire Company, we would like to thank all the fire companies that were involved in the mitigation of today's incident whether it was standby duty at another firehouse or directly involved in the actual extrication. So a big thanks to the Amenia, Wassaic, Stanford, Millbrook, Dover, and Lakeville fire companies. Also a tip of the lid to CC-14, CC-16, DCSO, NYSP, and the cattle farmers who were there to assist with the cows: all provided invaluable assistance.
This was a particularly tough extrication all around, because not only was it an auto accident with entrapment but it also basically a simpler man in the machine type scenario, the two fused together to make one interesting call. I was first on scene and was able to take it all in before the organized chaos ensued. A flatbed truck driven straight underneath 5-tons of machinery. All the stability was taken away from the hopper and transferred to the building and the vehicle itself. The driver was encapsulated basically but unharmed. Literally just in his seat, no way to move one way or the other. As you can imagine by the photos stabilization was the biggest issue which is why a multitude of rescues were brought in, for their cribbing alone, but also for air bags and the other specialty equipment they could provide. Once that was accomplished the actual extrication was easy. As you can tell in the photo slide we removed a back rack and the rear part of the passengers cab and the driver was able to self extricate basically from that point.
All involved stated that this was one that you could not really train for, and despite its many challenges I can say that I am proud of the outcome and way in which the incident was mitigated.

As the Second Asst. Chief of the Millerton Fire Company, we would like to thank all the fire companies that were involved in the mitigation of today's incident whether it was standby duty at another firehouse or directly involved in the actual extrication. So a big thanks to the Amenia, Wassaic, Stanford, Millbrook, Dover, and Lakeville fire companies. Also a tip of the lid to CC-14, CC-16, DCSO, NYSP, and the cattle farmers who were there to assist with the cows: all provided invaluable assistance.
This was a particularly tough extrication all around, because not only was it an auto accident with entrapment but it also basically a simpler man in the machine type scenario, the two fused together to make one interesting call. I was first on scene and was able to take it all in before the organized chaos ensued. A flatbed truck driven straight underneath 5-tons of machinery. All the stability was taken away from the hopper and transferred to the building and the vehicle itself. The driver was encapsulated basically but unharmed. Literally just in his seat, no way to move one way or the other. As you can imagine by the photos stabilization was the biggest issue which is why a multitude of rescues were brought in, for their cribbing alone, but also for air bags and the other specialty equipment they could provide. Once that was accomplished the actual extrication was easy. As you can tell in the photo slide we removed a back rack and the rear part of the passengers cab and the driver was able to self extricate basically from that point.
All involved stated that this was one that you could not really train for, and despite its many challenges I can say that I am proud of the outcome and way in which the incident was mitigated.

Millerton Fire under the direction of Chief Jason Watson responded to a cattle truck into a silo hopper and building off Route 22 just North of the Webutuck High School. The truck hauling cows to the fair went off the road and traveled several hundred feet through two fields before going down an embankment and striking and going under a dust silo entraping the driver. I arrived several minutes into the operation and have no patient update or cause of the accident
Incident alert: http://www.emtbravo.net/index.php/topic/42876-millerton-vehicle-into-bldg-wentrapment-8-21-11/page__pid__244401#entry244401

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members and some of the apparatus on scene:

Nice message on the sign of one of the local FD's....always good messages hard to keep up with.

FACT: Science beats tradition when it comes to extinguishment.
http://firechief.com/suppression/foam/benefits-class-a-foam-200907/
http://firechief.com/suppression/foam/firefighting_bubbles_beat_water/
Boston showed great results, however they had retrofitted older rigs and had major maintenance issues. As long as there is a failure of the large metropolitan fire agency located on the East Coast (serving 5 boros) to recognize the benefits of this method of extinguishment it will continue to flounder in regard to acceptance. Once a member of that agency sees the light and does a program on it at FDIC or another big venue it will look like the second coming of the savior.

This board is not the place to convert jakes into foam lovers, I can rehash many fires that I was personally involved in its mitigation, and the effective use of CAFS, and many others where I was not present and it made all the difference. I can even recall a few fires where it did not work as intended. Bottom line is real-life time on the nozzle of a CAFS line or at a fire where it is used is the way to really understand this tool.
I also think that CAFS as an excuse to reduce manpower and staffing for the purposes of the overall bottom line is a bastardization of the whole concept. Yes a line charged with foam is much lighter and takes a man or two less to maneuver around. But bottom line is it is the men and women who put these tools to use to mitigate any hazard, not a concept such as foam, or the fit-5. I dislike that.
The video posted where the fire seemingly increases in velocity at the initial burst, the foam appears to be extremely dry, more so then it should be, and yes, they hit really low. I don't know the % they used or the story around it, I literally fast forwarded to the 5 minute mark to watch what you posted.
Either way, I like how some have summed things up. This is a tool that my department and many others in our immediately mutual aid area use. Other departments nearby love Fit-5's. Some live big water and the ladders that push them. Every department has a culture and set of tactics that have worked effectively for them. I choose not to worry about what any other department does unless they are operating at my incident. We are going to keep using our foam because it has proven to us time and time again the property it can save and rapid deceleration it can bring to almost any fire.

There is a better chance for a kink, but utilizing the same thoroughness for dropping and advancing a hose line, and the use of a back-up or third man will take care of those issues. I personally have never had it be that much of a problem, although it can be.

This board is not the place to convert jakes into foam lovers, I can rehash many fires that I was personally involved in its mitigation, and the effective use of CAFS, and many others where I was not present and it made all the difference. I can even recall a few fires where it did not work as intended. Bottom line is real-life time on the nozzle of a CAFS line or at a fire where it is used is the way to really understand this tool.
I also think that CAFS as an excuse to reduce manpower and staffing for the purposes of the overall bottom line is a bastardization of the whole concept. Yes a line charged with foam is much lighter and takes a man or two less to maneuver around. But bottom line is it is the men and women who put these tools to use to mitigate any hazard, not a concept such as foam, or the fit-5. I dislike that.
The video posted where the fire seemingly increases in velocity at the initial burst, the foam appears to be extremely dry, more so then it should be, and yes, they hit really low. I don't know the % they used or the story around it, I literally fast forwarded to the 5 minute mark to watch what you posted.
Either way, I like how some have summed things up. This is a tool that my department and many others in our immediately mutual aid area use. Other departments nearby love Fit-5's. Some live big water and the ladders that push them. Every department has a culture and set of tactics that have worked effectively for them. I choose not to worry about what any other department does unless they are operating at my incident. We are going to keep using our foam because it has proven to us time and time again the property it can save and rapid deceleration it can bring to almost any fire.

This board is not the place to convert jakes into foam lovers, I can rehash many fires that I was personally involved in its mitigation, and the effective use of CAFS, and many others where I was not present and it made all the difference. I can even recall a few fires where it did not work as intended. Bottom line is real-life time on the nozzle of a CAFS line or at a fire where it is used is the way to really understand this tool.
I also think that CAFS as an excuse to reduce manpower and staffing for the purposes of the overall bottom line is a bastardization of the whole concept. Yes a line charged with foam is much lighter and takes a man or two less to maneuver around. But bottom line is it is the men and women who put these tools to use to mitigate any hazard, not a concept such as foam, or the fit-5. I dislike that.
The video posted where the fire seemingly increases in velocity at the initial burst, the foam appears to be extremely dry, more so then it should be, and yes, they hit really low. I don't know the % they used or the story around it, I literally fast forwarded to the 5 minute mark to watch what you posted.
Either way, I like how some have summed things up. This is a tool that my department and many others in our immediately mutual aid area use. Other departments nearby love Fit-5's. Some live big water and the ladders that push them. Every department has a culture and set of tactics that have worked effectively for them. I choose not to worry about what any other department does unless they are operating at my incident. We are going to keep using our foam because it has proven to us time and time again the property it can save and rapid deceleration it can bring to almost any fire.

Dan and Ryan have you been to any calls other then the one in Amenia where CAFS was used? I know Millerton has had several calls where they used CAFS, the one that comes to mind was the Smith fire just off Route 22 where they used the CAFS and it made a huge difference, I drove by the house the next day and could not even tell the place had a fire. I have personally been at two structure fire where I have been on the CAFS line and it made a significant difference on the knock down with alot less water and alot more flexibilty in operating the line and less fatigue on the line guys. As with anything, it isn't full proof, training and using it will only make it's use that much more effective.
Let's be honest here Ryan and Dan you guys will probably never use it (unless on a mutual aide call) nor purchase it and no matter how many times it is shown that it is can make a difference there are some departments because of tradition that won't even consider it and the one time (Amenia's fire which by the way had a void left open during renovations that allowed the fire to travel to the attic) where it isn't effective the nah sayers will rise up and say I told you so. We can argue back and forth on the merits of it to the cows come home, fire will go out without water and without any training or tactics.
Ryan how many times can we talk about the tools in the box, how many guys can't or don't even don their issued turnout gear (which is as basic tool as a flat screw driver) or an SCBA at a structure fire, let alone be pro-active enough to use and train with a new tool. Heck how many times have you been at a call where a ground ladder can't even be raised or placed properly, another basic tool. So let's be careful and not look through rose colored glasses when we are talking about the good ole tool box when even the basic tools aren't even taken out of the box routinely, you have seen and so haven't I, call after call.
Dan I said our zone not area, several departments North of Dover love it, train with it and use it so it is proven to them, maybe not you, Ryan or I but to those departments that use it, it has been proven to them and that's all that matters to them. As I said in the thread about our engine, I wasn't sold on it totally either and still have some limited doubts (because of my lack of using it) but after many discussions with our officers, putting my hands on a CAFS line and talking with the Battalion 4 Chiefs we added to our specifications and it was because we wanted to be proactive and add another feature that will aid us and our neighbors for many years to come.
Ryan the PPV training is a sore subject with me, remind me when I see you next time about a PPV on attack story.
Hey Fiftyone Pride where are you on this discussion, I know you chimed in earlier but please add some real world experience you have had using CAFS and why you now have two CAFS engines!!!!

My department has been using foam for quite a few years now, one of the original in the area from what I told (Mid-90's). Our brand new 51-11 which came to us last year has a very modern CAFS system. We by our own tradition are huge CAFS fans, it has great potential when proportioned and used properly. There are many instances when foam may not be the best choice right out of the gate or at all, but the majority of incidents can be mitigated faster and more efficiently using foam.
An example of both..
Our last barn fire on route 22, big fire, loss of roof early in the incident (2-3 minutes after IC and first-in units arrived), the old adage proved true for that fire: "Big fire, big water." CAFS does not have the same capability to be launched as far as straight water can.
My first structure fire, chimney fire with extension, heavy fire in the attic. A CAFS line to the attic access quickly knocked down all fire that had extended from the chimney in the matter of a minute or two.
Like anything else, CAFS is another tool in your bag. While it has a multitude of applications, it is not always perfect for every situation. The same can be said for water in hazardous materials fires, etc. Everything has its limitations. CAFS just gets a really bad rap in my mind because it is an affront to the very core of the actionable end of the fire service, water!

My department has been using foam for quite a few years now, one of the original in the area from what I told (Mid-90's). Our brand new 51-11 which came to us last year has a very modern CAFS system. We by our own tradition are huge CAFS fans, it has great potential when proportioned and used properly. There are many instances when foam may not be the best choice right out of the gate or at all, but the majority of incidents can be mitigated faster and more efficiently using foam.
An example of both..
Our last barn fire on route 22, big fire, loss of roof early in the incident (2-3 minutes after IC and first-in units arrived), the old adage proved true for that fire: "Big fire, big water." CAFS does not have the same capability to be launched as far as straight water can.
My first structure fire, chimney fire with extension, heavy fire in the attic. A CAFS line to the attic access quickly knocked down all fire that had extended from the chimney in the matter of a minute or two.
Like anything else, CAFS is another tool in your bag. While it has a multitude of applications, it is not always perfect for every situation. The same can be said for water in hazardous materials fires, etc. Everything has its limitations. CAFS just gets a really bad rap in my mind because it is an affront to the very core of the actionable end of the fire service, water!

My department has been using foam for quite a few years now, one of the original in the area from what I told (Mid-90's). Our brand new 51-11 which came to us last year has a very modern CAFS system. We by our own tradition are huge CAFS fans, it has great potential when proportioned and used properly. There are many instances when foam may not be the best choice right out of the gate or at all, but the majority of incidents can be mitigated faster and more efficiently using foam.
An example of both..
Our last barn fire on route 22, big fire, loss of roof early in the incident (2-3 minutes after IC and first-in units arrived), the old adage proved true for that fire: "Big fire, big water." CAFS does not have the same capability to be launched as far as straight water can.
My first structure fire, chimney fire with extension, heavy fire in the attic. A CAFS line to the attic access quickly knocked down all fire that had extended from the chimney in the matter of a minute or two.
Like anything else, CAFS is another tool in your bag. While it has a multitude of applications, it is not always perfect for every situation. The same can be said for water in hazardous materials fires, etc. Everything has its limitations. CAFS just gets a really bad rap in my mind because it is an affront to the very core of the actionable end of the fire service, water!

My department has been using foam for quite a few years now, one of the original in the area from what I told (Mid-90's). Our brand new 51-11 which came to us last year has a very modern CAFS system. We by our own tradition are huge CAFS fans, it has great potential when proportioned and used properly. There are many instances when foam may not be the best choice right out of the gate or at all, but the majority of incidents can be mitigated faster and more efficiently using foam.
An example of both..
Our last barn fire on route 22, big fire, loss of roof early in the incident (2-3 minutes after IC and first-in units arrived), the old adage proved true for that fire: "Big fire, big water." CAFS does not have the same capability to be launched as far as straight water can.
My first structure fire, chimney fire with extension, heavy fire in the attic. A CAFS line to the attic access quickly knocked down all fire that had extended from the chimney in the matter of a minute or two.
Like anything else, CAFS is another tool in your bag. While it has a multitude of applications, it is not always perfect for every situation. The same can be said for water in hazardous materials fires, etc. Everything has its limitations. CAFS just gets a really bad rap in my mind because it is an affront to the very core of the actionable end of the fire service, water!

I dont know the specifics for this fire so I am clearly not speaking for these guys, but in my experience up here by me, driving into farms, fields, or logging roads is sometimes the ONLY way to get to the fire. I have driven in a fire engine into field and forest many times to extinguish brush fires that could easily have turned worse without water. We dont have choppers (aerial tankers?) so we have to drive it or walk it in.
SOme of our departments have 4wd engines, and some dont. We have brush trucks, but they only carry 250-300 gallons of water. If we can get the 1000 gallon engine close enough to use it as a fill station for the brush units than we do it, its an effective tactic, otherwise we have to drive the brush units long distance to a pond, creek, or other water source to refill. Having the engine, or even a tanker with a pump, close to the scene helps out in the long run.
Besides...every brush fire has the capability to turn into a major fire, threatening homes, businesses and lives, so the earlier you jump on it the better. Just saying that could be the reason they drove the rig into the field.
Hope that helps. Stay safe.

Date: 3.19.2011
Time: 1446hrs
Location: 5378 Route 22 (Cross streets: Haight Road and Perry's Corners)
Frequency: Dispatch, Response, Command 3, FG 13/14, MFC 51, Amenia 31
Units Operating: Millerton All Equipment, Amenia All Equipment, Sharon All Equipment, CC14, CC9, Wassaic 69-31, Lakeville Engine 10/20/60, NDP, Cornwall's Tanker, Canaan's Tanker. Millbrook and Pine Plains M/A for standby in Amenia and Millerton Quarters.
Weather Conditions: 40's, Windy, Sunny.
Description Of Incident: Grassfire that quickly extended to a 150x70 foot dilapidated barn. Excess winds quickly caused the fire to consume the whole barn and start a grass fire behind the structure for approximately 3 acres burned. By the time units had setup the barn's roof had already collapsed. Handlines were immediately put into use, and after the outlying fires were contained a tanker shuttle was setup too feed Sharon's Tower 1 to get over the block walls that were still standing into the barns structure. Four silos were adjacent to the barn as well as three other barn type structures, none of the exposures were compromised by fire. Two draft sites were setup on Sharon Station Road and Coleman Station Road, the tankers were split up into two groups that had assigned fill sites. The ladder was able to operate successfully with a continuous water source from the rotating tankers. Millerton and Amenia returned today (3.20) for one silo that a very small amount of silage that was smoldering.
Reporter/Writer: FiftyOnePride
Note: Pictures can be found on Ed Harvey's website (LINK)

Date: 3.19.2011
Time: 1446hrs
Location: 5378 Route 22 (Cross streets: Haight Road and Perry's Corners)
Frequency: Dispatch, Response, Command 3, FG 13/14, MFC 51, Amenia 31
Units Operating: Millerton All Equipment, Amenia All Equipment, Sharon All Equipment, CC14, CC9, Wassaic 69-31, Lakeville Engine 10/20/60, NDP, Cornwall's Tanker, Canaan's Tanker. Millbrook and Pine Plains M/A for standby in Amenia and Millerton Quarters.
Weather Conditions: 40's, Windy, Sunny.
Description Of Incident: Grassfire that quickly extended to a 150x70 foot dilapidated barn. Excess winds quickly caused the fire to consume the whole barn and start a grass fire behind the structure for approximately 3 acres burned. By the time units had setup the barn's roof had already collapsed. Handlines were immediately put into use, and after the outlying fires were contained a tanker shuttle was setup too feed Sharon's Tower 1 to get over the block walls that were still standing into the barns structure. Four silos were adjacent to the barn as well as three other barn type structures, none of the exposures were compromised by fire. Two draft sites were setup on Sharon Station Road and Coleman Station Road, the tankers were split up into two groups that had assigned fill sites. The ladder was able to operate successfully with a continuous water source from the rotating tankers. Millerton and Amenia returned today (3.20) for one silo that a very small amount of silage that was smoldering.
Reporter/Writer: FiftyOnePride
Note: Pictures can be found on Ed Harvey's website (LINK)