gamewell45

Whiile it wasn't a major issue, the consumption of alcohol was banned from my firehouse years ago due to liability concerns by the Board of Fire Commissioners. In fact under the current rules still in effect, if you consume any alcolhol at all whether at home or anywhere else, your out of service for a miminum of eight hours. Most of us gave up drinking.

I would say, let the district fix the problems and move forward from this issue.

How come every time a career department is in danger of layoffs somebody has to open their mouths spouting ridiculous nonsense about volunteers taking over? We just went through this in CT with the New London layoffs. Some jackwagon decided it would be good to write a letter to the editor of the local newspaper suggesting that volunteers be brought in to help alleviate some of the financial strain. A lot of people took him seriously because they assumed this idiot knew what he was talking about because he identified himself as a firefighter in the article.

This stuff pisses me off. For everybody out there trying to improve career-volunteer relations, all it takes is a couple guys with their craniums inserted into their 4th point of contact to ruin it and brand all volunteers as scabs. When my district was threatening to layoff some of our career personnel, we as the volunteers banded together to help our Brothers. If your sandbox isn't big enough for you, go find another one, or advocate consolidation with another volunteer department, but don't suggest laying off hardworking career firefighters and replacing them with volunteers. That's just ridiculous. People don't forget that kind of statement.

Anyone with an attitude like the one illustrated in the above comment give credence to the TINY minority of career firefighters who believe all volunteers are out to steal their jobs. YFD guys, please note this asinine comment does not represent all of us. Most of us stand behind you and hope all this layoff BS gets fixed and you can go back to full staffing.

Very good posting.

Unfortunately, this happens on both sides of the fence. Most of us in the fire service realize or should realize that we are all on the same team and our primary function is to be there when the public needs us.

For whatever the reason, there will always be a minority of fire service members who enjoy stirring the pot if you will, which only causes animosity on both sides and is best served by not letting reactionary fire service members get under our skin. Instead, we should all be focusing on our obligation to protecting the public and let those who sit in the corner or in front of a keyboard casting aspersions fall on deaf ears. We'll all be much better for it. Just my two cents on the matter.

May our departed Brother find eternal rest and comfort in the lords kingdom.

Like what, a Prius? What are they going to use that can still carry their gear, prisoners, pursue bad guys, and not give the officer clausterphobia?

I was thinking more along the lines of a rickshaw; you'd save big on gas and put people to work.

Great Keyboardist from a great band that brought you hits like "Smoke on the water" and "Strange Kind of Woman".

Rest In Peace Chief

Been driving jeeps (CJ-7) since 1980. Wouldn't buy anything else!

Most Americans believe that they will never have a fire and the only reason they have insurance is because the bank requires it to get a morgage.

Insurance never makes you whole. You can't get back what was lost, including the 2-3 years you will be rebuilding (and fighting with the insurance company).

Also, most people are against sprinklers because they do not understand how they work. They think every head goes off with just a little smoke (thanks to hollywood) and that the water damage will be devistating.

Agreeably many people do believe that fire will never strike them; they roll the dice and take their chances. The well-to-do have more money and as such may be willing to roll the dice more often then the average person since they have the means to rebuild and start over again.

Education on sprinklers and how they work might help to allay of some fears that people may have regarding water damage, but no matter how much education you offer, there will be those who will skirt the edge and take their chances.

It is just amazing how people can build these multi-million dollar homes in a non hydrant area and not have a sprinkler system. The lawn sprinklers kicked on at one point and worked fine. Here are some photos from the job. http://www.lohud.com...&nclick_check=1

That's why they have insurance.

The respect and integrety ship sailed years ago. This is just the most recent skirmish.

Ok, I wasn't aware of the prior relationship between the city and fire union.

IF YOU BELIEVE THE MAYOR

There's an old saying in the labor circles; never trust management.

The mayor, in his hamfisted attempt to save money has most likely seriously damaged years of respect and integrity in reference to contract bargainging. It wouldn't surprise me if the mistrust caused by this very poor decision by the mayor will have a negative impact on future contract talks down the road for the city. I wouldn't blame the union either; how can you trust someone who in the prior contract thew out all the negotiated agreements without re-opening the contract to seek changes without first sitting down for formal negotiations with the union leadership and a vote by the rank and file. Aside from whatever legal actions (ULP's) are filed, its unlikely that the trust between the parties, which probably took years to form will not be restored for a long time down the road.

I've read in this thread that fire union officials are planning to take action against the city; I think they have an excellent case based on what i've read in here; courts tend to view very dimly any entity that abrogates a labor contract with only a few exceptions. I wish all the union brothers and sisters in Scranton, all the best; you've got solidarity, you'll overcome this.

Look I am not here for a dick mesuring contest. I will leave that upto the people that like to do that. I saw a statement that bothered me and I spoke up about it because its total BS. I dont ever speak up on here. This time however I felt I needed to. This Career Vs Vollie crap is for the birds, were all here to do a job and all you boys can do is talk about whose better than the other. Heres a clue get off your high horse and work together instead of against. I never seen such nonsense from people that are suppose to be helping others. Dont worry I wont speak out again since its seems to get no where with some of you. BTW heres what I had the problem with.

John Flynn said: I think it is very important that we continue to take opportunities when available to educate the public concerning the fact that monies which are donated to volunteer fire departments rarely, if ever, are used for purchase of firefighting equipment, or for training, or such purposes, but rather the monies people donate to volunteer fire departments are used for parties, extravagant dinners, vacations and excursions, etc.

Don't take everything you hear in here to heart; take it from the source.

Gamewell,

I am in the same boat, my current department is a not for profit corporation, and receive money from the town. The have a say in a budget, and in years past have asked for justification for certain line items. I am not sure the public can request to see our books, but the town can. We did one fundraiser mailing a few years back, mostly our carnival is our fundraiser.

Since we were both in the same prior department that levied a tax, IIRC correctly tax money was used for the department operations, i.e training, apparatus repair/replacement, insurance and the like. It was the 2 percent money from insurance policies that was split evenly among the 4 senior companies. That money was used by the companies as they saw fit, but it was also expected that some of the 2% money would be used to support the department band, and a chiefs fund. I know my previous company saved money, and invested in money markets to support our 100th anniversary. At one point we were warned by the department treasurer, that as a non profit organization we would have a hard time justifying how much money we had saved over the course of 10 years.

Yes you are correct now that I think of it; I recall the Treasurer mentioning that some years ago.

And you would be extremely stupid to do so! The Mayor has already stated that (at some point) everybody will go back to where they are now with repayment of all lost wages. Regardless, he has no legal standing to do this and I know for sure that the fire union is already getting ready for the fight.

I think that action by the fire fighters union would be a very prudent move at this point. Just to let the politicians know that the union is fully aware of their actions and will do what they have to do to maintain the integrity of the labor agreement.

May he rest in peace.

I am not saying it's right or wrong, but legally, the individual fire companies are not public entities. They are merely social organizations, much like the Elks Lodge or Lions Club. There is no oversight because legally, there does not have to be. The meetings are closed meetings, the budgets are closed budgets, and everything else about them is closed. The buildings that they own are not public property as one might think. There is no legal requirement for them to "show the books."

Even if you went to FOIL them, I'm sure it would be shot down since the company is private and there is no legal requirement to disclose anything. What the village or district does with the tax money is all public information. every appropriation, receipt, and cent is (should be) accounted for and spent accordingly.

Asking someone to show the funds of a social organization on a public forum is not going to happen, whether you want/like it or not.

I know that my current fire company is a not-for-profit corporation and I may be wrong, but i think organizations such as that may be subject to various disclosure laws. I know that my former fire company I belonged to in Westchester didn't fall under that category and as such I don't think the laws applied to them since their charter was granted by the Board of Fire Commissioners. Just a thought to help move the discussion along.

District books are open, but company books are not. When the district cuts the company a check there is no longer any accountability.

I'm wondering if it would be possible for the public to foil the books. I'd think that if the fire company is a non-for profit organization, you might be able to gather information that way?

All monies donated to the fire company are used for expenses not covered by the fire district. When we send out our flyer ever year for donations, it is very specific and people are told what the monies collected are used for.

The fire districts books are always open and avilable at every Board meeting for anyone who wants to review them.

For those of you who don't already know, since 2011, the Scranton Fire Department went from 7 Engines, 2 Trucks, 1 Rescue, and 150 FF's in 4 shifts down to 5 Engines, 2 Trucks, 1 Rescue, and 112 FF's in 3 shifts. The city closed 1 Fire Station(Engine 15) and 2 of the 5 Engines still in service are "browned out" daily.

Unbelievable.

There is precedence in Pa. for extreme cutbacks; in the early 80's when the steel industry was tanking in Pittsburgh, FD's experienced severe reductions in salaries and in some cases outright conversion from career to volunteer. Clairton stands out in my mind which was one of three departments to dispand and convert. It was very tough times for public safety then and now.

If the Scranton public service employees are union, unless the city declares bankruptcy and voids all contracts, I doubt the legality of cutting salaries (unless unions agreed to this of course).

I guess when I get a call from a career fire department asking for a donation I shouldn't assume parties aren't held all conferences attended do not involve partying and other activities don't happen with their money

Perhaps or they might be using monies collected from union dues from the membership whether or not each member approves or in fact know's about it in the first place.

May the Sister Rest In Peace.

Wow! Talk about goin off topic! :-))

Back to the unions, yeah many of them have lost their purpose in life. Remember though that the IAFF for all it's pandering to Obama and the Democrats has taken a lead in firefighter safety. Both volunteer and career members have benefitted from their work.

In your opinion, what is there purpose in life?

Maybe Dutchess wouldn't benefit from countywide consolidation. Has anyone sat down and looked at what, if any savings or improvements could be made? Are there any villages or hamlets that are struggling to cover an area that they could better cover together? I know very little about Dutchess, but I'm willing to bet this hasn't been tackled yet and if it has, I guarantee the public doesn't know.

Perhaps the career/combo departments might benefit from some type of consolidation since some of them are rather costly to the taxpayers (Fairview and Arlington come to mind) and this could help to reduce overall costs to the public in those districts..

The public doesn't vote because they don't care/don't know. If you gave them a reason they would turn out.

Perhaps they would, perhaps they won't. I live in Dutchess County and can only speak for the area that I live in and most people here are content with the way things are and have no desire to see anything change on that magnitude.