JBJ1202

Helmet Cam Video: N.J. FF's Close Call
http://www.firehouse.com/topics/top-headlines/helmet-cam-video-nj-ffs-close-call
I don't even know where to start with this video. I'm usually the one saying it's easy to Monday morning qb and giving the benifit of the doubt but I think a good discussion on safety can be learned from this.
Right off the bat
1. We see the fire in and to the left. Yet there's a bunch of guys with a line and the nozzle on the little porch creating a traffic jam putting their regulators in. Get off to the side out of the venting smoke on a knee get your PPE squared away bleed the nozzle make entry and put out the fire.
2. A discussion is ongoing about who's inside how many? Obviously there are accountability issues. You must know who you have and a general idea where they are.
3. I hear a pass alarm going off as the guy is making his way to the back. Is anyone addressing it?
4. Why is a line operating from the exterior while interior operations are underway?
5. Obviously companies have been on scene at least a little while and a FAST and additional companies are being requested. This should have been requested quickly. We are more than 2 minutes into the video.
6. Differing people giving orders and they are contridictory. Honestly it looks to me as if the first and subsuquent lines should have gone through the front door. This is a basic concept. Protect the interior stairs and the escape route of the occupants. As the subsuquent lines come in they reinforce the first line, back it up, or go above for extension. This is a pretty fundamental concept of firefighting.
7. Now a member shows up in the window. They decide to move the ladder which under the circumstances is necessary.
8. Guy in the window has a haligan. He should have taken the window and the sash. I probably would have bought his some time by venting the heat and smoke a couple of feet above him while he waited for the ladder.
9. If you don't practice the basics like portable ladders it shows when the S* hits the fan. If you are going to ask the guy to come down head first the angle should have been decreased and footed. With all the people there with the ladder why didn't someone ascend to help the member down? You could have gone up and pinned the guy to the ladder for the descent. It wouldn't have been pretty but he probably wouldn't have fell.
10. Now the guy falls head first off the ladder. He is now out of the IDLH and immediate danger. I would have brought EMS back to him or had FF/EMTs board him. There was no good reason to handle him by dragging him to the front. It's a good idea at this point to question the downed FF about who was with him and their whereabouts.
11. Now the MAYDAY, first a roll call or PAR is needed a minute ago, assign a chief to supervise the mayday and give him resources and get him on another channel.
12. The practice of donning the facepiece without the regulator and walking around the fireground limits your field of vision greatly. Practice taking your knee and donning your facepiece and hood just prior to entering the IDLH. It allows you to see what your doing prior to entering, keeps your mask from fogging up, and limits your air consumption. At this fire its appears some firefighters may have used up their air prior to even operating inside.
My conclusions may not be entirely correct on all these items but this in no way seems like a smoothly run fire. No doubt these guys were faced with a working fire with entrappment and probably inadequete initial manpower. But if you train for the fundamental tasks you will be more efficent when adrenilin and emotions are high. Ever go to a fire when the fire department seems to be running the operation and not the fire running the fire department?

Doesn't every Property Owner in Westchester County pay taxes both the the local municipality that they reside in as well as a County Tax? If part of the Property Taxes paid goes to the County, then the way it could be explained would be now the portion of your taxes that you currently pay for Fire Service will now be paid to the County.
I believe that the proper way to "Communicate" this to ALL citizens of Westchester County would be for those Fire Service Professionals (Bnechis, Fitzpatrick, Flynn, etc, etc, etc) to "Collectively" put this "MASTER PLAN" (for both the Southern Westchester Fire District AND the Northern Westchester Fire District) and have town/city/village FORUMS and invite citizens to sit in on the presentation and have these Professional Senior Fire Officials explain in "Common Man/Women Language" (so that everyone can understand) why this is being proposed, the impact (Positively) it will have on their Fire Service/Emergency Response as well as the relief that they could see from a Tax Payers prospective.
I'd bet that if they were to see/hear this with their own eyes and ears, AND if they had the SOLID backing of all City/Town/and Village Officials as well as the New County Executive, that it would be POSITIVELY RECEIVED BY ALL.
I totally agree with Chris' statement that by leaving this in the HANDS of the Senior Level Fire Management Professionals in Westchester County to work on "PRO-ACTIVELY" rather than wait for the "Hammer to Come Down" and be forced to make decisions "On the Fly" with input coming from those "Not In The Know" in a "RE-ACTIVE" manner, is the "WAY TO GO" - Let's get it done NOW rather than waiting for LATER!

Front suctions have a number of disadvantages:
Added cost(in the $40,000 range)
Added maintenance (we had 4 rigs with them, 3 cracked from there own weight, 1 was damaged in an MVA and when we found out the cost to repair, it was removed.
High Friction loss - with all the turns it is generally equal to 100' of hose to travel 15 feet. This reduces the amount of water that can be pumped. When we had a 6" front suction on my engine we maxed at 1,150 gpm. a 6" steamer can do 1,500 - 2,000 gpm.
In some designs it increases the turning radius
The best one is many MPO's tend to nose the engine into the hydrant when they have it. This can push the tail end out into the street. At a MA call about 2 years ago I got a great pic of an engine doing just that and cutting off the tower ladder that was now 500 feet from the fire building.
The way we keep the MPO safe from traffic is to bring the line in on the right (or left if needed) steamer connection.

at 2:30 in the afternoon on a monday how many firefighter do you expect can show up??? try and factor in how many of these people are working , or dedicated to some other issue in their lives ??? THAT IS WHAT MUTUAL AID PLANS ARE DRAWN UP FOR give them a break. christ even my department had a lil bit of a hard time getting the engine out but we provided sufficient manpower to mohegan. Given the time of day and that no one was home we all (meaning all the dept.'s that responded) , and where the fire started and how it traveled made one hell of a stop on that house and to all the members of this site that are members of the departments that responded to that fire you/we made one good stop guys good job!!

What personal light weight tools do you carry and do they have multiple uses?
Items that I carry and use almost every tour of duty:
Helmet (rubber strap)
• Wood door chocks
o

Propping open doors
o Sprinkler wedge
o

Creating a gap when forcing doors alone
• Common 10d nails
o

Propping open doors (light weight & inexpensive to replace)
• Back up flashlight
• Picture of my wife & kids (taped inside)
o



Reminds not to get complacentCoat
• Pocket mask (inside pocket)
• Medical gloves (stored in pocket mask)
• Short 25’ utility rope
o

Team search
o

Hoisting/lowering tools
o

General lashing
• 24’ of 1” tubular webbing
o

Stored inside a medical glove to keep dry
o

Too many uses to mention
o

Will post something on that later
• Safety glasses (Borkes are cool but don’t protect you)
• Keys clipped to coat
o

Metro North RR
o

Fireman service
o

Firehouse
Pants (Class 2 harness & bailout system/ pre-rigged)
(Left pocket)
• “Through the lock” multi tool (Swiss army style) which includes:
o

Key tool
o

5/32” square tool (fox & police locks)
o

Shove knife
o

Screw driver (Philips & flat head)
•

Large “Robo Grip” channel lock (multiple uses)
(Right pocket)
• Utility knife, heavy duty side cutter, medical shears
o I keep them in my right pocket for escape reasons. Easier access during low profile & full escape SCBA procedures.
(Over the shoulder)
Main flashlight attached to a quick release strap with an over-sized carabiner for hands free tool carrying and mechanical advantage use.
I also carry 2 pairs of utility gloves. One for rope jobs and one for extrication purposes. Don't use one pair for both!
Hopefully I didn't leave anything out. Always looking for input on this, so I can lighten the load.

Figure 46,138,142,and 124 right off the bat.

Prior to the Babbitt Court address being confirmed, presumably due to incomplete information being received by cell phone call(s), 60-Control dispatched the Elmsford Fire Dept to the vicinity of Route 9-A and Paulding St. for a possible structure fire.
Once the correct address and actual fire was confirmed, off Route 9-A, just south of the Elmsford Fire District line, E-237 responded to the scene (after checking with the Incident Commander) and L-55 relocated to Fairview Fire Headquarters (60-Control dispatch: Our normal assignment on a Fairview 2nd alarm).
The E-237 crew operated at the scene, with the other units, until the fire had been brought under control; at which time they were released by the Incident Commander.
L-55 remained at Fairview Fire Headquarters until most units had returned to service; they were then released by the Incident Commander.
I hope this clarifies our role in this fire.
Syd Henry, Chief
Elmsford Fire Dept.

Well put HFD23!
I also agree with you, Slayer61, that a FAST / RIT Unit should have minimum equipment, some form of SOPs and proper training. In the past, these items have been discussed on these forums but don't ask me where!
Just building on what the others have asked / replied, what equipment does your FAST carry and what equipment should be minimum?
I'll start... we use an Engine primarily because we have three of them, and because the majority of our trained Team members come from this company.
Some of what we carry:
(1) Stokes
(1) TIC
(1) Quick-Vent Chain Saw
(1) Partner Saw with wood (multi-purpose) blade
(1) Stihl Saw with metal blade (metal and concrete abrasive blades also on rig)
(1) Battery-powered Sawzall
(1) Electric Sawzall
(4) Steel hooks (6' & 8')
(3) Pairs of Irons
(1) 8 Lb. Sledge
(1) Hydra-Ram
(1) Man Down Pack
Several Search Lines & Tie Lines
Several Other hand tools (K-Tool, A-Tools, Closet Hooks)
300' Rope with 3:1 MA setup
Each man has a radio, PPE, SCBA & flashlight(s).
There's a lot more equipment on this rig, but these are the most commonly grabbed tools.
We always perform a 360 of the fire building, and will clear anything blocking egress points. Other tasks we do include throwing ground ladders and performing accountability (as best as we can). One Member is always detailed to the Command Post and monitors Fireground transmissions, and generally we put one team (at least two) in the rear of the building and keep another out front.

This is true in the northeast, but in many portions of the country county or regional depts. are career or combination. Often because it is cheaper when it is done on a regional bases. While the volume may be lower in bedroom communities, the type of response is based on the emergency, not the type of community (if the house is burning, the fire des not care if its in a city or out in the country). The spending difference that you speak of would be based on trying to fully staff a volunteer dept in Westchester with career personnel. When you look at the southern regional models (GA, SC & FLA, etc.) most stations with the call volumes seen in many Westchester depts. would only require an engine (and a tanker if no muni water system). Its amazing that they send less for career depts then we spend and meet national standards for response.
Clearly the overall budget is less in a volunteer dept., career depts. are established with larger populations than those found in most bedroom communities. Either a city or county/region. When covering a larger population the costs per family (or per tax payer). As an example I compared the per capita cost of my city FD with that of a number of VFD's in notrthern westchester and we average about $100 less per capita. The key is regionialization.
Even more amazing would be the amount of money that could be saved in the volunteer communities in Westchester if they would become a regional dept. The only one who would not save money is the apparatus dealers.
If life hazard or significant property dammage threat is not an issue then why does every dept in westchester need all the apparatus it has? Based on that statement alone, do we need all of the FD's (and stations and rigs) we have?
If politician did a risk/benefit assesment they would figure we would be better in some communities with no FD and pay the next dept over to come to the 1 call every few days. Politicians do risk/benefit assesments for there career, not for the safety of the community. If they think funding a new tower ladder in a VFD that does not need one will get them reelected then they will get a new TL.
If you ask that way, of course they will never go for it. One County in S.C. showed that going county wide and career dropped the ISO rating from a 9 to a 5, saving each property about $800/yr in fire insurance while increasing the fire tax by $300, they put it to a vote and everyone is saving money today.
You are right it wont happen here, because we will fight to keep our depts. seperate, even if we can not meet the needs, because we are way to proud of the "great" job we are doing.
The reason taxes are #1 in Westchester is because the pleasure of our communities is to do it this way, because they do not understand that the rest of the country does it for a fraction of the cost (this is mostly school tax, but every tax contributes).

here are some steps that need addressing and some already have
determine what kind of elevator you are being called to work on you may only have a hydro, but does your mutual aid area have traction elevators?
do you have the keys to open all the doors you may come across?
where is the elevator stuck?
is it a true emergency ie medical call or just a stuck occupied elevator?
do you have an sop for lock out tag out? ANY elevator you are going to work on MUST have the power shut off before starting any evolution.This is probably the most important thing you have to do. with that said do you leave a member at the shut off, (in the old days we always took the fuses out and put them in our pockets), do you shut it off and lock it out so no one else can put it back on, or do you just assume because you shut it off that no one else is in the building answering the same call: IE: building maint, PD, elevator repairman who might turn it back on for whatever reason.
how many people are in the elevator? involves making contact with the occupants and possably calming them down BEFORE any attempt to open doors
where is the car in relation to the floor
is there a fall hazard into the shaft by ANYONE FD or OCCUPANT UPON REMOVAL
a little giant ladder/ closet ladder is standard on all our responses to help remove occupants
how good are you at getting the doors open practice makes perfect
AND PLAN B FOR THAT ONE IN A HUNDRED CALL WHERE NOTHING YOU PRACTICED WORKED
This is just a quick overview some steps were already mention in previous posts I am sure i left out something along the way

I am doing some research in regards to equipment needs in my department, more specifically on our rigs. I have been reading through NFPA 1901, but I haven't come across the section that I need yet. So i figured I would throw it out here, and see what kind of response I get.
When you are building a rig, or speccing it out, what are the standards that you should have per seat in the rig. This is more in terms of radio's, lights, and tools of that nature (anything to be mounted in the cab area). What are the thoughts out there, and is there a "standard" to follow?
thanks
Ray