CFFD117

Just for fun and laughs nothing more kids.

This thread has become a complete train wreck. You want to look away, but morbid curiosity gets the better of you!

LMAO. Now I get it..you are a joke. Maybe its just you read like you spell. Read my post over...and slowly...in fact never mind I'll break it down for you one more time even though I don't think a divine intervention would allow you to get it.
1. We don't train in animal rescue other then we had a vet volunteer once to go over some animal first aid after a fire in a pet shop that many animals were in distress from smoke inhalation. And what I said was...I was involved in an animal rescue that we treated like a drill as it was minimal life safety risk. We took it step by step and checked and re-checked before going to get the dog. Little Timmy and the bystanders were quite happy once we did get him. And before yous say the dog could have bit me, it was exhausted by the time we got out there. Not that I really care what your opinion is from your previous comments.
2. You were trained in "all the water (I think you put it "warter") courses." So apparently either you went to the bathroom, fell asleep or your instructor skipped the PPE section in each one? Or is it you actually just think that the term PPE is confined to turnout gear? Personal Protective Equipment...just in case you're not sure what PPE actually stands for. So that means any equipment that will protect your a** for the task at hand.
I'll break it down in your lingo:
We donet due drills on anmal resq. We had a animal resque and we treeted it like it dun wuz a drill. o we took it reel slow. And yeah PPE dont means no turn out gear it means any equiment that gots used for a certin siuation.
Keep grasping at straws...I teach s*** for a reason...and I love to debate so keep coming pal. (Note you will never see "brother" typed for anything in response)

You are so full of sh!t!!!
A nearly 300 lb suicidal man in neck deep water while fully clothed and 150 yards from shore IS NOT "basic water rescue"!! Typically in a water rescue situation, the victim is highly interested in being rescued. There's really no guarantee or indication that this person would not have resisted the rescue attempt.
Sure, you can sit here and say that you just needed a boat, pfd & rope, but did they actually have access to all of these items?
You continue to make derogatory statements about their command staff and make baseless accusations about this situation. Yes, there was a lack of training, ONE THAT EXISTED BECAUSE THEIR CITY TOOK AWAY THEIR EQUIPMENT AND FUNDING FOR TRAINING IN WATER RESCUE!
What "lack of cooperation with other agencies" are you talking about? THEY QUICKLY CALLED FOR THE COAST GUARD TO RESPOND! If the Coast Guard would've been able to respond with a helicopter immediately and it arrived quickly and made the grab would you still be asserting a "lack of cooperation"?
I'll ask again even though you keep ignoring the question...............Exactly what should they have done that they didn't do under the circumstances they were under? They lacked the equipment and training necessary for the task at hand. They quickly contacted an agency who did. That agency responded. Don't give me any BS answers about how they should've been trained/equipped for water rescue, because we're all in agreement that they should've been. Exactly what else should they have done?!

Truck 58

St Barnabus ambulance

ESU

Driver's door skin impaled on the fence

Initial impact to the red pickup

La Grange, assisted by Arlington, Beekman, East Fishkill, Pleasant Valley, and Union Vale operated at this structure fire at #11 Trinity Way. La Grange was dispatched shortly after 6:00 am for a reported structure fire at that address. LA Grange 47-11 arrived withing several minutes and encountered fire from the A-B corner of the structure with all the occupants out of the structure.....

Walking In.......

Wow....... I'm a little too late.....

Hmmm, "Small" house.......

Porta Tank operation out in the street......

La Grange Command (Career Chief Ward) in the neighbors driveway..........

Tired crowd at the front door.....

Firefighter/Medic Tom Martel was first due with 47-11 and was O/S in several minutes with heavy fire showing.....

Big houses and no hydrants...... East Fishkill 39-33 goes for water after dumping a load.....

Time for some air...... These guys made a great stop......

DCDER Deputy Fire Coordinator Keith Davidson and DCDER Fire Coordinator Kyle Pottenburgh were on the scene.....

Looking out towards the street.....

One of two of the familiy dogs was visibly shaken......

Trying to calm the dog.....

Using a throw rope for a leash.....

All better.....

Time to be reunited with its owner......

Chill'n.....

Thumb'n

Smokin.....

Talk'n....
and lastly,

Walk'n...... Members of the FID make the scene......

I pick things up and put them down.

In light of a recent and tragic L.O.D. death, along with others that I'm familiar with, I'd like to know what kind of health monitoring exists in the volunteer fire service today. I know when I joined a VFD 12 years ago, I had to go through an OSHA physical and it was fairly comprehensive. However, members only had to have this physical every 5 years. Additionally, as long as one passed the pulmonary function test and could duck walk, you were okay to continue on. More than a few guys of "generous proportions" were allowed to continue to serve. I've read too many stories and known too many people who have suffered injury and very sadly death and it can be directly attributed to their physical health.
At work, we have to have an annual physical which includes pulmonary function, EKG, heart rate on a stair master, eyes, ears, typical vitals and a full blood work-up. Members who's heartrate is too high, have hypertension, extremely high cholesterol or are excessively overweight, ect, are removed from full duty status and assigned to work somewhere where they can work on these problems without risking their health.
The Job did a casual study some years ago where members would work a normal tour while wearing a heart monitor. These members, in good health, had extremely large swings in heart rate. At times, they went from a rate in the 60's to a rate close to 200 in seconds. This is what happens when you're resting and then the tones drop and the housewatchman tells you it's a phone alarm for fire and people are reported trapped.
I know we walk a fine line in the VFD of wanting to retain members without placing too much strain on their personal lives. This is a tough balancing act, however, we might be shying too far away and ignoring very real health concerns. We need to protect our members and their families.
This is highly stressful and dangerous work. We don't need to make it more-so by not protecting ourselves.
What is being done? What can be done differently?

If you're implying that the members here are not advocates of due process I think you need to reconsider your position as the majority of us are staunch advocates of due process and protecting our rights. To suggest that law enforcement officers are not advocates of due process is flat out wrong. We work within the sytem that has been crafted for us and this decision is merely a clarification of what has long been an exception to the warrant requirement of the 4th Amendment.
You obviously didn't even read this case before posting your comments. The police were pursuing someone who was "actually committing a crime" not "grasping at straws" or "having trouble nailing the bad guy". Perhaps the appropriate criticism is that they just didn't run fast enough and he managed to get into an apartment before they apprehended him.
Every warrantless search is scrutinized at every level from the PD to the DA to the courts and in this case it went all the way to the Supreme Court where, in what was already noted as a rare 8-1 decision, they reaffirmed that the destruction of evidence is an exception to the warrant requirement. It is a great example of due process working as designed and everyone should be happy about it. Our rights are being protected and law enforcement is doing their job.
Having absolutely no idea what it takes to get a warrant or run into a housing project after a suspect your final comment "Oh well its hard for me to lock up the bad guys because its so damn hard to prove they are doing anything wrong" is nothing more than inflammatory and a slap in the face at all law enforcement. Every day police officers jump through all the hoops you're accusing them of ignoring or finding too difficult.
Now, let's get back to the point: the Supreme Court decision.

It's not even worth explaining crime cop. 18 years old, not involved in law enforcement in any way, and he's the expert. How about you go out there and show us how it's done kid?

M'Ave you are 100% right that the test is not the issue. The real problem is the dept didn't recruit. They didn't recruit whites, blacks, hispanics, anyone. They never had to, the tests always had a line around the block and before 9/11 lists would never come anywhere near being exhausted. As soon as they started a real recruiting effort aimed at diversifying the dept they affected real change in both the number of minorities and their scores. This is where an activist judge becomes a pain in the a**. Rather than wait and see if this change was meaningful he jumped the gun and will do far more harm the good.
The two accepted ways to address this are a pass/fail test of the skills the dept insists matter or a knowledge based test. Knowledge based test are very expensive and time consuming. You have to be willing to educate all of the applicants to a level where they can not just pass, but pass well.
No matter what happens, the vulcans want a number. They don't care the quotas do more harm than good. They taint every minority member of the dept as having taken the easy way no matter how they actually did it.
Firemedic, your argument is the exact argument for pass/fail testing. The test is just there cut out anyone who cannot make it. The academy is there to make them into good firefighters. You're right, the argument is not that the dept's test is racist. They are saying that the results have a racial bias, the cause of which is irrelevant. If the result is biased you must find a test that does not have the same biased results unless the test is germane to the job.
In NYC's testimony they were unable to prove any difference between candidates at the top of the list and lower on the list once they were hired. They argued the quality of the training is what enabled this equality. They had people testify as to the how much harder the instructors had to work with lower list candidates. They even demonstrated that it took more candidates to fill a class the lower on the list you got. But they were never able to prove list number impacted the quality of the firefighter. Apparently Chicago was unable to also.
Technically there is still an EMS promotional. The last one was combine with the open competitive, so when the judge ruled on one he essentially ruled on both. There is rumor of a promotional coming, but its not a new rumor and it has yet to happen.

Have we really become that much of a nation of whiners and publicity hounds that even an event as justified as the elimination of an avowed terrorist and virulently anti-American murderer causes some to be "offended" and get on the news? Let's put this in perspective
There are some upset because his codename was Geronimo. It's just a commonly used phrase and well known name, easily recognizble by everyone, not an anti Native American slur. Do people really have that much free time on their hands that they can sit and dwell on the meaning of a code name? C'mon get real will ya and go find something better to complain about.
Now an even hotter topic, whether or not he was armed...WHO CARES!!! Did this hero of so many radical Islamic murderers care whether or not the thousands he has or had murdered were armed or could defend themselves? NO he didn't, as a matter of fact he relied on the fact they weren't and preyed on the innocent just as all terrorists do. A clean quick kill for this coward is almost too good an end to this waste of human flesh. I'm quite sure many of us would have liked to have seen a much slower and excruciatingly painful demise for this "leader". To those that have a problem with the manner of his death, get over it and be thankful it was quick and he wasn't given a more fitting final few years of suffering.
And now on to his burial at sea. Again he was afforded much more respect than he ever gave to any one of his victims. Did he care that thousands were simply obliterated at Ground Zero, with no trace for the familes? NO again he counted on that. So he sleeps with the fishes, big deal. He got his immediate burial of his cleaned corpse as is Muslim custom, he got much more respect than he ever gave others or deserved. Stop whining and rejoice that he is DEAD, DEAD DEAD just as he shoud be.
And finally for all those who see his rightful removal from the face of the earth this as an increase in the risk that we, as Americans, face in this world...WAKE THE HELL UP!!!!. Osama bin Laden did not invent anti Americanism, radicalism or terrorism, he only benefited and gained notoriety from them. His death will have no great impact on the desire of those radical and militant elements in this world that want to harm us.
To Osama bin Laden GOOD RIDDANCE SCUMBAG and MAY YOU ROT IN HELL FOR ALL ETERNITY
Remain vigilant America and remember freedom is not free.
Thank you Obama
Thank you SEAL team six and all that serve our nation in the Military
And
God Bless America
Cogs

Boat Fire Tactics:
1. Use copious amounts of water.
2. Fill the burning vessel up to the gunwales.
3. Once burning vessel is no longer visible, allow the fuel fire on the surface to burn out.
If you don't have a fireboat, go directly to step #3.

Not me, my union got me today off

SOME unions have this and some do not. In exchange for this, other things were given up.
Again, some unions contribute and some do not so you're wrong.
Yes, civil service employees receive salary increases as do most private sector employees. Often they do not match cost of living increases and sometimes they're years apart. I'm not sure of the history but most municipalities don't have merit raises because it is too subjective. How do you fairly assess two employees when one is in a busy precinct or firehouse and the other is in a quiet one?
Not all. I doubt it is even most. I paid for more than 60% of my education received while on the job. My contract provided me with about a 40% reimbursement but doesn't my employer also benefit by my being better prepared to the do my job? Some union members receive more, some receive less. It depends; as it does in the private sector. I have a friend who received 100% tuition reimbursement and had all his books and fees paid for by his employer - in the private sector. Now since his company has government contracts and receives corporate tax breaks who really paid for his education? Hmmmm....
For years public employee salaries were far below those in the private sector and nobody in civil service receives year end bonuses, stock options, matching contributions to 401K programs, or other perks so pensions and healthcare helped level the playing field.
I'm not even going to pretend to understand what you're talking about with this sold you out nonsense. Please cite the unions to which you're referring so we can all assess the credibility of your argument.
Civil service unions don't "allow" their members to get anything. They negotiate for them, they make concessions in one area for another, and they receive them in arbitration after an independent third party assesses the benefits structure and decides they're entitled to them. Do you think civil service unions just walked into the proverbial city hall and said here's what we want and got it?
Politics as usual is what's messing up this country. Raiding well funded pension programs to cover deficits in other areas of the budget contributed to the dramatic shortfalls in some states, not the individual union members' benefits. How about social services? Social services is 2/3 of the budget in my county and how well managed is that? You want to blame unions for the demise of government sustainability but they're a very small part of the problem. How about the state legislatures themselves? They spend millions on mailings and postage to tell me how well they're doing their job when all indications are the contrary.
Can you cite the study that produced these numbers? I doubt you're going to find that anyone thinks unions are perfect and, yes, things can definitely be restructured but not solely at the workers expense. Without unions we'd very likely have antiquated equipment, inadequate training, and egregious working conditions. That's what unions have fought for throughout history. I'd be very interested to see what unions you're referring to in your "research".
Finally, I'm not sure who you're referring to as ignorant but let's keep these disagreements professional and respectful. Name calling only diminishes your credibility and weakens your argument.

Can you give examples of how my union has not "fairly negotiated"?
Can you explain why my employer takes money out of every one of my paychecks under the title: "medical"?
While I do not have to pay into my "pension", I am paid less than when I was in the private sector and had to pay into my retirement. When I was debating switching jobs the issue was less pay, but more benefits. A hard choice when your single, no children and in your 20's, but I understood that as I got older it would be worth it.
How did we get this pension system? Was it the greedy unions that developed it? We had a city pension system until the 1960s, when the Mayors in NY State determined it would be cheaper for the taxpayers to have one pension system (and they would look good reducing cost), instead of one in every municipality and they convinced the state legislature to develop it.
Interesting way to look at it, I understand it very differently. All FF's are at similar risks of being hurt/killed at an incident, but after figuring out what a firefighter salary should be, the municipalities understand that if they lower the starting salary by up to 50% with a 5 year build up to "top" pay knowing there are still enough people willing to take the job and struggle to make ends meet for those 1st few years. It’s not non-merit, it is what they should have made in the 1st place, but the big bad unions dont have enough power to fight this reduction.
My union contract allows all members to "share" in a college funding account. By contract the city must fund $20,000 per year (not per member) to cover the tuition of all union members. At its height that was 181 members sharing $20,000. If 20 of those union members went to college, each was able to get $1,000 toward their annual college education. Now to get this benefit, the union had to give up something and in the last few years more than $10,000 of the fund each year does not get used and is returned to the City's general fund. Over the last 25 years I think about a dozen members have participated and 3 or 4 have gotten degrees.
And the tax payers benefit from all of this.
We do, we do, we do and while I did benefit from the education, it taught me how to bring over $2.5 million back into my municipality and reducing the cost of property insurance by more than a million annually for the last 14 years. Over the last 25 years $450,000 has been made available to 175 employees, but only about 1/2 has been used. and the return on the investment has been over $16 million.
You still have yet to show anyone how "they sold us out"?
I have given you the history, to bad you missed it in your research. Its true, you are ignorant of all the facts and you make a lot of assumptions, that are not true.
Then how come, for every gimme, we had to vote on giving something up? Or worst it was taken from us by an arbitrator.

Just a visual of what fire can do to steel beams, attached is a picture taken by a Poughkeepsie DC at a vacant warehouse fire.
Imagine if these beams were supporting an OMD.

Great topic!
In addition to the lack of initial size-ups, there's been a drought when it comes to progress reports as well. One incident I listened to recenty, the FD was on scene for roughly one hour, and I never heard anything. As a dispatcher, we like to know what's happening, and the info that the IC can relay can be entered into your event's comments in case you ever need to refer to them on a report.
As a Chief, I try to give a brief report on arrival, and provide updates as necessary. Last week, while waiting for several hours for a certain utility company to show up to an incident, I made requests every 20-30 minutes to have on record for the whereabouts of this utility. The 60 Control dispatchers were good about entering this info which came in handy when I completed the report.
I've also been a big fan of the size-ups and progress reports so your responding members know what's going on, whether they need to go to the scene or crew a rig, etc.
Hopefully this discussion prompts some more Incident Commanders to speak up and let people know what's going on.

Thankfully this speech has resurfaced. To me this speech should be a mandatory part of every firemen's training. Here's the links. I suggerst that if, like me you believe as the LT does, you save it before it is again disappears under the assualt of the safety zealots. Part 1 http://www.4shared.c...ue_Values_.html Part 2 http://www.4shared.c...ue_Values_.html Thanks LT for saying what needs to be said. Cogs

Hey guys , if the Parade catches fire they can meet the two in and two out ! come on think positive !

I agree with you brother. I have been here for 22 years, I am a captain now, and I see it way too much. The same old excuse every time the training schedule comes around, their too busy and have no time. But then when it comes time for the chief to pick someone for a task, they suddenly feel as if they are more than qualified? If you dont have the training you wont do the task. They cry all the time that its too much time...suck it up. You want to fight fires you need to know what your doing, yet they all think they can pack up right of the street with no training, and why, well ofcourse, because their daddy is or was chief, or their uncle, grand-daddy, mother, brother, sister, aunt....Does having a relative in the dept make you trained?? Dont think so.
I have a guy in my dept running around telling everyone he is trained as an interior firefighter, yet he cant give us certificates when asked. So one day I get sick of listening to the blowhard bragging and I call the fire coordinators office and request a copy of his training transcripts. What do I get? Two classes...Essentials and AVET. After an extensive argument at the firehouse I finaly got him to understand that you cant hide behind the term "Volunteer" and pretend to be what you are not. Essentials of back then is the equivilent of todays Scene Support Ops, I told him if he wants to be interior he has until fall to get Firefighter I, FBAA, and Firefighter Safety & Survival, then he has to get checked out at a drill.
Sorry for the rant, its kind of jumbled and off topic a little but its something that bothers me. We go into IDLH situations every time we get the call, and yet there are still volunteers that do not hold themsleves to the same training standards as the rest of us, and no one does anything about it. Not me, not any more, now that I am an officer things are going to change in my department. I would rather have 2 or 3 QUALIFIED interiors and have to rely on mutual aid more, than continue to have people with little to no training.
Stay safe out there.

We are all entitled to our opinion...and you stated yours very well...and here is my opinion...the board did the right thing. I understand some history is important, however sooner or later they would have to find a way to store it...and that means adding to an existing building, or if they every built a new one added cost to increase the size to store it, or to pay to store it somewhere else. I've seen this happen time and time again. I also for one lose no sleep that there isn't a museum in Westchester for emergency services. Who would run it and what benefit would it have..other then getting some antique apparatus out of some firehouses or to not have the need to use taxpayer dollars to build an area to store them. Most of us need money for equipment and operational things...and sometimes its just not fiscally responsible to spend money on such things at certain times. I hope whoever bought it gives it a good future life wherever that may be.

I say " let him die he knew what he was in for " !