Bull McCaffrey

This is akin to realzing how badly you're losing the game that you take your ball, call it quits and run home pouting.
The most informative, articulate and concise post on here and you call it "long winded". If you are who you say you are, truly a disappointment.

This is akin to realzing how badly you're losing the game that you take your ball, call it quits and run home pouting.
The most informative, articulate and concise post on here and you call it "long winded". If you are who you say you are, truly a disappointment.

Why so much hate for the cops on this board? I can never understand it. These guys were asked to help out by THE FIRE CHIEF and they're still wrong in the eyes of some. It's almost like some guys would rather see the structure burned to the ground before they see PD being cast in a postitive light for helping out when REQUESTED by the fire chief.
Maybe, just maybe if that particular fire district was squared away, the cops wouldn't have to be doing their jobs.

Why so much hate for the cops on this board? I can never understand it. These guys were asked to help out by THE FIRE CHIEF and they're still wrong in the eyes of some. It's almost like some guys would rather see the structure burned to the ground before they see PD being cast in a postitive light for helping out when REQUESTED by the fire chief.
Maybe, just maybe if that particular fire district was squared away, the cops wouldn't have to be doing their jobs.

Why so much hate for the cops on this board? I can never understand it. These guys were asked to help out by THE FIRE CHIEF and they're still wrong in the eyes of some. It's almost like some guys would rather see the structure burned to the ground before they see PD being cast in a postitive light for helping out when REQUESTED by the fire chief.
Maybe, just maybe if that particular fire district was squared away, the cops wouldn't have to be doing their jobs.

Why so much hate for the cops on this board? I can never understand it. These guys were asked to help out by THE FIRE CHIEF and they're still wrong in the eyes of some. It's almost like some guys would rather see the structure burned to the ground before they see PD being cast in a postitive light for helping out when REQUESTED by the fire chief.
Maybe, just maybe if that particular fire district was squared away, the cops wouldn't have to be doing their jobs.

Why so much hate for the cops on this board? I can never understand it. These guys were asked to help out by THE FIRE CHIEF and they're still wrong in the eyes of some. It's almost like some guys would rather see the structure burned to the ground before they see PD being cast in a postitive light for helping out when REQUESTED by the fire chief.
Maybe, just maybe if that particular fire district was squared away, the cops wouldn't have to be doing their jobs.

Why so much hate for the cops on this board? I can never understand it. These guys were asked to help out by THE FIRE CHIEF and they're still wrong in the eyes of some. It's almost like some guys would rather see the structure burned to the ground before they see PD being cast in a postitive light for helping out when REQUESTED by the fire chief.
Maybe, just maybe if that particular fire district was squared away, the cops wouldn't have to be doing their jobs.

Sorry, I couldn't resist the urge to provide another example of a Brother helping people in need outside his field of expertise... Right place, right time.
Seriously though, Officer Connors is a great guy and definitely not the first Danbury Officer to receive an award for an action such as this. I take comfort knowing none of the negative comments written on this thread will ever change the mind of a Police Officer faced with a situation like this.

Everybodygoes, I'm not looking to get into an arguement with you over what in the end is complete nonsense, but I am up for an intelligent rational discussion, so I'll respond to your post.
"The FDNY has been doing rescues since 1865, ESU was started what in the 20's?"
In 1865 the hodge podge of volunteer fire companies were superceded by the Metropolitan Fire Department, which in its beginning roots only covered parts of what is now Manhattan and later on Brooklyn. The FDNY officially became the FDNY in 1870. It wasn't until 1928 that the Bronx was pretty much completely served by the paid Fire Department, followed by Queens in 1929, and Staten Island in 1937. The Fire Departments main function was Fire Suppression. I have tried to research a bit more on the history of the FDNY and their involvement in rescue work, but have come up short in factual verifiable information. If you know where I can locate this, I'd be interested to read it. I know that Rescue 1 was officially formed in 1915, and Rescue 2 was officially formed in 1925. According to the unofficial website for Rescue 1, the formation of the rescue companies was borne out of several fires (Equitable Building, 1912, a Subway Train fire in 1915) wthere firefighters were encountered with difficult forcible entries, and realized the need for a company that carried specialized equipment to operate at these fire scenes. As time went on, Rescue began to get more involved in the Technical Rescue arena, but their original responsibility was to operate at fire scenes, and perform rescues of firefighters and civilians at structural fire scenes (taken from an unofficial Rescue 2 website). This was a time when the FDNY had their hands full with structural fires. Rescue 1 was first equipped with it's first Hurst Tool in 1972. The NYPD was officially formed in 1854 (20 years before the Metropolitan Fire Dept.). ESU was formed in 1925 from a pool of police officers who possessed special skills (electricians, carpenters, riggers, etc.) with the sole purpose of performing rescue assignments. The Unit was also known as the departments Firearms Battalion, and years later the Unit was coined the Mobile Security Unit, where it was tasked with responding to both rescues and tactical situations. Their role as a tactical unit expanded in the 1970's after the Munich Olympics massacre. Not sure when ESU equipped their vehicles with hurst tools. In a book written about the history of FDNY Rescue 1, it was written that members of the NYPD ESU actually helped train the first members of Rescue 1 (I'm not making claims to the accuracy of the material, just relaying what was written. I'll re-post the title of the book when I dig it up). ESU was formed to serve the cop on patrol. At a time when NYC was burning down and the FDNY had their hands full with structural fires, the members of ESU were a resource for the patrol cop to handle these rescue jobs. Before the formation of FDNY Rescue, members of the FDNY performed rescues with the limited equipment and training they had. Before the formation of NYPD ESU, members of the NYPD performed rescues with the limited equipment and training they had. So to say one was doing it before the other... not sure how much weight that holds.
Westchester County PD has hurst tools before the overwhelming majority of FD's, especially in the northern part of Westchester County, and were the only one's equipped to perform vehicle extrications on certain parts of the County highways for many years.
"You tell me who is better trained at doing it."
I don't know, who is? What discipline are we talking about? ESU members go through a Rope Rescue Technician course provided by a nationally recognized training organization that meets NFPA 1670 and 1006 requirements, and go for continual training multiiple times a year, whether it is self-driven Squad level training, mandated in-house training, or training provided by outside training organizations. ESU members go through an AVET course similar to the Fire Service, and through self-motivation and discipline will often visit local junk yards to train on scrap and derelict vehicles during the course of their normal tour to remain competent on their skills. They go through the EPA Haz Mat Technician course, the FEMA Structural Collapse Technician course, all meet and exceed the NFPA requirements. All ESU members are at a minimum EMT's with several Paramedics and one or two Physician Assistants in the ranks. Unless things have changed, all FDNY members are CFR's (with some EMT's/medics thrown in there). Since we are technically better trained emergency medical responders (as in trained to a higher standard), should ESU take over patient care activities when we arrive on scene?
"You show up with 2 we show up with 6"
You are correct, and sometimes 2 is all you need... more is not always better. I agree that on jobs that are manpower intensive (structural collapses, trench rescues) rolling 6 deep is a huge benefit, and necessary for the operation at hand, and something that ESU really can't compete with. But look at the majority of confirmed pin jobs.. they're simple door jobs that are mitigated in minutes. Quite often I'll see 2 guys working and 4 standing around doing nothing. Even on a simple, minor MVA with injuries on the highway when you have 2 and 2 rolling in with 4 (I think) guys on each piece of apparatus. That's 16 guys either standing around or jockeying for position for one totally stable patient. It's not a knock or a low-blow, it's simple observation. On a more technical or complicated job, we should all be able to work together, and I think the concept of working together is more prevalent in the outer-boroughs. I haven't been around that long, but overall I've had no real major issues when it comes to working together. What it comes down to more often then not is not the patch on the sleeve, but the mentaility of the individual.
As I mentioned before, Westchester County PD handled extrications on the County Highways for many, many years before a lot of the local VFD's had hurst tools, and they got the job done in most instances without 6 people showing up.
"But, don't tell me what happened in Brooklyn was a rare occurence, cause it isnt."
I didn't say it was a rare occurence. What I am saying it's that it's not a one-sided problem. I'm not trying to bash anyone or any agency, but I'll give you 2 examples. Queens, 2 ESU members tethered and outfitted in gumby suits are effecting an ice rescue. After making contact with the victims, members of the FDNY show-up and 5 or 6 run out onto the ice in bunker gear. No tethers, no protective suits, just bunker gear. Can you guess what happens? Ice breaks, and all of them fall through the ice into the freezing cold water and now they all have to be rescued. All of this was caught on video by a news chopper. Don't believe me, I'll post the video here. How is that scenario any different then the one you portrayed about ESU guys trying to be the "it guys", and endangering their own safety and the safety of the other responders who now have to get them out of the water? Or a more recent scenario. Water rescue, male in the water up along the seawall. ESU arrives, one member suits up in a drysuit, and while being tethered, enters the water and grabs the person in the water. While this is going on, FDNY members drop a ladder in the water, and insist on putting one of their own in the water, eventhough the person is "in-custody" for lack of a better term. Now the ESU member has to wait for the FDNY member to descend the ladder so him and the victim can climb the ladder out of the water. The FDNY member entered the water, and came right back up the ladder. What purpose did that serve other then to be the "it guy"? If we want to get technical, according to NYC CIMS, NYPD is the lead agency for all water incidents. What it comes down to is the A-type personality that the majority of us possess and everyone wants to be that "it guy", unfortunately sometimes people's judgements get clouded and irrational decisions are made on both sides, not just one. That's the only point I'm trying to make.
"Guys in Truck 4 are all aces, never had a single problem with them and they work with us well, and of course you cant paint with a broad brush, but it does happen and nothing is done to mediate it. "
Like I said before, I think as you get into the outer-boroughs, there's less drama overall. I don't have an answer as to why nothing is done to mediate it.
"Wonder why it doesnt happen in Yonkers?"
I don't know, maybe someone from Yonkers can chime in. Maybe it's a better working relationship. Maybe Yonkers ESU wants little to do with rescue work. Maybe we just don't hear about the problems. Maybe the current workload leads to few occasions where there's a potential for a problem. I honestly don't know.

How dare they? Did anyone check them for "fireproof vests"? Wonder what the NYPD PBA has to say about this? "Who was guarding the hen house while they were playing firemen?"
Sarcasm off! Job well done men.

Very well said George. The simple fact is that the Law Enforcement field is one of the most scrutinized, Monday morning quarterbacked professions out there. The media sensationalizes stories involving Law Enforcement to sell papers which turns the general public against us. "Community activists" love to blame the PD for all the issues that support their own personal self-righteous agendas without using their influence in the community to address the real problems that plague low-income neighborhoods. And every Bob, Dick, and Harry who watches some Hollywood cop on the big screen and plays Call of Duty 20 hours a day is all of a sudden an expert marksmen and a tactical genius who can shoot a gun out of the hand from a fleeing felon at 50 yards and then questions why we don't do the same when confronted with a real life deadly force encounter; not some BS video game encounter while sitting around in the living room wearing nothing but a pair of stained tighty whities.
Then I have to come on here and listen to a couple FD guys who always have something to say about LE? It's the hypocrisy that kills me with the whole thing, plus it sounds like a bunch of bratty crybabies alot of times. I'm sorry to say it, but it is what it is. Simple fact is when FD screws up, how often do you see an LEO on here chime in with some stupid comment? So far I've had nothing but good working relationships with FD guys, and I hope to keep it that way. I don't have the time, the patience, or the desire to cry about every little thing. Now I love my job and I take a lot of pride in it; but in the end it's just a job that pays the bills.

Didn't FD ask the troopers for help? You make it sound like the cops were freelancing, tapped the hydrant and stretched the line on their own. I bet if it was your house on fire, you wouldn't be complaining that the cops were putting water on it.

You have read about these. Were you there or are you just going off what you saw and heard in a Fire magazine or on the internet? I ask the question, were the write ups objective or were they written up by someone with an anti-PD agenda or anti-PD sentiments? Obviously video doesn't lie but even a video may not catch the whole scene and just pieces of it.
I have seen first hand and read the other side of the fence, with FD members doing ridiculous things at rescues to jeopardize their own safety and the safety of others. Difference is PD doesn't run to the media, a Law Enforcement magazine, or EMTBravo to b**** and mock FD about it.
I personally have no problem with Firefighters. They're there to do a job just like everyone else in emergency services. My issue lies with the minority of Firefighters who have the biggest mouths and have nothing better to do but troll the internet and b**** and complain every time they perceive someone else is doing their job. The facts have been exhausted here numerous times, so I'm not going to waste my breath, but many local PD's (including NYC and WCPD) were tasked with performing rescue work long before many FD's. Bitching about PD continuing in the rescue field is like EMS bitching about FD's encroaching on their "turf" when all these FD's want to get into the EMS first response business. Is the arguement valid? As an EMS provider, personally I'd rather not have FD show up on my jobs, but I'm not going to knock them for it because in the end it's what's best for public safety.
Believe none of what you hear and half of what you see.

How dare they? Did anyone check them for "fireproof vests"? Wonder what the NYPD PBA has to say about this? "Who was guarding the hen house while they were playing firemen?"
Sarcasm off! Job well done men.

Correct, there were not enough ff's on the scene. However,the only people here who missed the boat to which you are referring are those who can't see past their own preconceptions and feel it necessary to bash the offlcers for their good deed. The article, and this thread for that matter are about the actions of the troopers, not the inactions of a department which clearly needs some assitance. What if lives were in danger on the call referred to in the article...do you still stand by your statement that no non FD personnel should be used?? By that token, as an EMT I can never have anyone else other than my crew hold stabilization, put pressure on a wound or grab a backboard for a lift assist on a heavy patient....sometimes it just doesn't work that way. Sure, address any overarching, systemic issues but in the mean time there's a job to be done...

How dare they? Did anyone check them for "fireproof vests"? Wonder what the NYPD PBA has to say about this? "Who was guarding the hen house while they were playing firemen?"
Sarcasm off! Job well done men.

Bottomline dude, THEIR chief who was most likely at the job felt it neccesary to personally congratuate them for a job well done. They were there, you were not therefore you can't really comment as to who was inside or who wasn't. The job got done. Stop hating.
FYI: The brothers from E-158 were taken care of for their actions in assisting PD with their deck gun. I can assure you that they didn't do it for the "honor". They did it because it was the right thing to do.

How dare they? Did anyone check them for "fireproof vests"? Wonder what the NYPD PBA has to say about this? "Who was guarding the hen house while they were playing firemen?"
Sarcasm off! Job well done men.

How dare they? Did anyone check them for "fireproof vests"? Wonder what the NYPD PBA has to say about this? "Who was guarding the hen house while they were playing firemen?"
Sarcasm off! Job well done men.

How dare they? Did anyone check them for "fireproof vests"? Wonder what the NYPD PBA has to say about this? "Who was guarding the hen house while they were playing firemen?"
Sarcasm off! Job well done men.

How dare they? Did anyone check them for "fireproof vests"? Wonder what the NYPD PBA has to say about this? "Who was guarding the hen house while they were playing firemen?"
Sarcasm off! Job well done men.

How dare they? Did anyone check them for "fireproof vests"? Wonder what the NYPD PBA has to say about this? "Who was guarding the hen house while they were playing firemen?"
Sarcasm off! Job well done men.

NY State Police PBA phone number: (518) 462-7448
Feel free to call and ask them yourself. Let us know what they say.

NY State Police PBA phone number: (518) 462-7448
Feel free to call and ask them yourself. Let us know what they say.