fireguy43

As for the rest, you know why I picked up on the undercurrents of volunteerism; a majority of your posts have to do with issues or supposed issues that are only resident within the volunteer system. (Response times, staffing levels, and the implications that a regionalized and consolidated - and no doubt career - department would better serve those in the Northern areas of Westchester county [the volunteer districts], to name a few.) While you didn't explicitly use the word "volunteer," you didn't have to; anyone who has ever read any of your past posts and then read this thread knows exactly what you were getting at.

Maybe the so-called "deafening silence" stems from the rather condescending nature of the way the issue was raised. Aside from the fact that it demands information from people as if they are compling some kind of official report for the Almighty, maybe people would rather talk about something other than a dead topic. Maybe volunteers such as myself would rather talk about something other than the ubiquitous threads and posts that make them look less than qualified for their jobs. Maybe we take umbrage at the implication that we care more about parades than public safety. Maybe we just don't care about what you're crying about today.

Here are the "specifics" Chief. The majority of places have a signup. The majority of places are community-minded, keeping the safety of the residents of their original jurisdiction at heart at all times. That said, the majority of places make sure that their district is covered before going to an extra-jurisdictional affair. So, just because the "jolly vollies" go to attend a parade or a wetdown or whatever, does not necessarily mean that they are shirking their responsibilities.

Most places have a signup and it's not like the whole department goes to the parade and leaves their respective district unprotected. What's your beef with Volunteers, anyway?

Nice to see. As Chief Flynn, ALS, Myself and others have been trying to bring people around to this.
Because we spend our money on too many trucks, too many stations, etc. We have a number of depts that cover 1 square mile with 3 engines, a tower ladder, a rescue and 3 chiefs and they are only handling a couple 100 calls per year (1 or 2 and actual fire). All of those counties cover larger areas with fewer rigs, but they are fully staffed, properly trained and backed up within less time than it takes for some of the VFD's here to get a crew out the door. Also how good do you get when you only do a few calls each year?
Great so now what? Just let everyone suffer, good planning. Lets sope calling exterior only personnel firefighters. Lets call them helpers. Its great that they can pack some hose and change an SCBA bottle or make a hydrant to free up real firefighters. Oh wait, they can't or won't do that. How much of your tax dollars are going to them? Your taxes paid for their turnouts, medicals, LOSAP, and a host of other perks and MY TAXES and those of all the career communities paid for the training that DES is providing for them. Oh police officer please remove this buff to the other side of the fire line, he is not one of us.
Well said. So the volunteers that do not go into the fire building do not like the state law that requires enough people outside who are willing to go in, how ironic.The morale issue has been a problem there for over 8 years. The career firefighters were included in the Westchester Special Operations Task Force and were trained in Yonkers to be Hazmat/WMD Technician and were going to become squad 7. But after completing all of the training and getting federal money to fund the equipment, the commissioners determined that having the ability to respond to a chemical emergency would hurt the dept moale to the point that they ordered the career staff to drop out. Silly of me to think that when an elected official swore on a bible that they would do what is in the best interest of the community, they would actually keep politics out. Since these vacancies occured over 7 years and most during the best economic times we have seen in decades, I suspect this has nothing to do with the recession. Its a very tough sell when you can not even convince the members that they have a problem when a department with 6 frontline rigs can not handle a house fire without calling the world to help. Consolidation is not a temporary fix, its a long term solution to a growing problem.

Our automatic tri-village dispatch is not in place out of "need" to deal with "even a private dwelling fire", but is instead a proactive policy to deal with "What If". The other two departments are dispatched to stand-by in quarters, and apparatus is called in as-needed. Our departments have designated first, second and third alarm assignments from within the area to deal with what MAY occur. It's a pre-plan, in place and it works. For example- My department does not operate a ladder truck therefore we rely on any of the surrounding departments which border us on any side to provide one if needed. The point is, instead of waiting to arrive on scene and then have one dispatched, the other two depts. are already in quarters ready to roll. We operate a dedicated cascade truck which we will respond anywhere called upon as we did at this fire, with qualified interior firefighters two of which in this case, were put to work. Volunteer numbers within many departments are lower than what they once were as many who grew up in their communities cannot afford to live in them anymore so they move out. Others work two jobs and cannot volunteer their time. Planning for this possible shortfall in available manpower with multiple area departments is a working alternative to consolidation.

This fire got a huge head start before anyone was ever aware of it- burning in the walls of an unoccupied home with rapid spread to the attic before any units arrived. Crews from Put. Valley, Yorktown, Peekskill and as I can personally attest, Buchanan, worked with Mohegan in an excellent and coordinated effort and kept the damage from being worse than it was eventually was. Should mutual aid departments be included on the initial dispatch? That is a question Mohegan should consider, at least during the daytime hours. We do it in the tri-village (Buchanan, Montrose and Verplanck)24/7/365 on all structure fire calls (even if it's an oven fire). The district with the fire is toned out immediately followed by the other two to man their stations. Works very well anytime of the day for all situations. Again- this fire was well involved before anyone even noticed and the crews did "make a good stop" considering what they faced. Not making excuses here Chief Flynn- just giving a little first-hand insight to what I experienced on scene.

105 views so far...I bet I can double that at least...

bob,
How about color code on gasoline power equipment. EXAMPLE everything on straight gas gets marked with a band of green electrical tape, everything with mix(gas & oil) yellow tape, the gas can itself also needs the corresponding color code. I have seen guy's try to read 2 exact size gas cans that somone marked with black marker 1 gas oil the other gas, very difficult to make out at night. Just a good 11/2 inch band should do the trick

Another point to consider now is a tanker is NOT what it used to be. Many tankers from 10-15 years ago were a simple commercial 2 man cab, made to be on the road quickly whereas some of the newer tankers that you see on the road now are that of manpower and equipment capable. Case in point, the 2 tankers in my own department are Class A Engines, 1 is a 8 Man Cab and the Other is a 5 man cab. Both have a full array of firefighting equipment from thermal Imaging Cameras to Vent Saws...and everything in between. One is 2500 gallons and the other is 3000 Gallons.
Our SOG's require for a tanker to respond mutual aid that it has a qualified driver and a minimum of 4 (four) Interior Qualified personnel. Most of the time we fill the cab. Its a win win situation for both the driver of the apparatus and the company requesting you. Many dispatches for tankers now come with the request of manpower. We believe the "manpower" should come on the apparatus and not in a blue light parade. Just my 2 cents.

As I have indicated on here in other threads, I do not live in Westchester and am not affiliated with any of the agencies which have had the misfortune of experiencing a structure fire in the past few months that were the topic of IA's, nor do I have any acquaintances in any of these departments. I am as far removed from these incidents as can be, so it doesn't "hit close to home" for me or make me feel uncomfortable (according to Mapquest, the Banksville firehouse, for instance, is 50 miles away). I am also not trying to "brush this problem under the rug".
There may well be a response issue in Westchester, there may well be a need for consolidation and regionalization. I don't know. I asked in a post a week or so ago to cite any publicly available information from any source in the way of a study or position paper that addressed the issue so that we could all be better informed. Never heard a word in reply. Does one exist? Does anyone at the County level agree that there is a problem? Has the County Executive or any public official (town, city or otherwise)made any comments or taken any action to at least identify the issue? I don't know, give us some real information instead of insinuation, conjecture and speculation based on unreliable information in an internet posting forum.
Please, chief, understand the difference between the "issue", and the methodology with which one pursues that issue. There may be a valid point in terms of staffing and response times, but that issue and the pursuit of a solution is diminished when the pursuit is based on conjecture and less than factual information. If you have facts, then fine, share them with us. If you don't, then get some. You must have access to some form of records, as dispatch records must be public information available with a FOIL request. Get the dispatch records for the last month. Stucture fires in Banksville, Croton Falls, Somers, and Mohegan Lake come to mind. Wouldn't be a lot of work to get information on 6-8 incidents. Put some facts together in an organized, analytic way that proves your position. Do that, demonstrate the problem that you say exists based on IA's from anyone with a computer, and I'll be a believer. Until then, it's all conjecture, rumor and hearsay.
One last point, which I'll put in a separate paragraph in case Seth and the boys feel the need to edit it out. Read your last paragraph. "...you are easily upset...", "...you very uncomfortable...", "You are blaming..." and "...puts you in a small minority". Let' keep the discussion about the issue, and not a personal attack the minute someone disagrees with you.

Just so we're clear..... read my entire sentence. "Who knows who's right, and who cares?". As in, "who cares who's right?", not "who cares about response times". Honestly, it's great to engage in honest discourse over the topics of the day, including response times and staffing levels, but let's stop the nit-picking over what time each piece of equipment got out unless you have reliable information.
There is an awful lot of hearsay and misinformation that ends up being the topic of a two or three page thread on here. My point is that two people come forward with information from the same incident with dramatically different response times, not seconds apart, but minutes. Check the thread, how do you account for an 8 minute difference in what two people heard? And since there is such a discrepancy, how do you sit at a distance and feel qualified to opine on what should have been done with incomplete and imperfect information? Yes, seconds count, and yes, we should all strive to provide the highest level of service, at the safest, most efficient speed that conditions allow. What doesn't count is an endless barrage of criticism over every single incident.
Don't worry about my feelings Chief, I don't "TIP", just tired of the same old harangue every time there is a structure fire IA.

I don't know Banksville either, but a couple of points-
1) Even if the tanker CAN be operated solo, it may be the department or the Chief's policy that it has two people on it. I drive a tanker all the time. I can and have gone to many structure fires with it by myself. I have been told that wherever possible, I should have a shotgun rider if for no other reason than to help back me up if I'm on a back road, or to watch intersections as I approach. I prefer someone else with me, but I'm not sitting on the apron waiting for them to get to the station. Perhaps in Banksville, there is an order against solo rides.
2) Depending on departmental policy, perhaps the tanker is the last one out on purpose. My department has a policy of engines first, tanker secondary. First driver to the house takes an engine, second driver takes an engine, third driver takes the tanker.
3) Don't read too much into the fact that a mutual aid tanker was requested before Banksville's responded. It may be indicative of the Chief not thinking it would get out, but it is also possible that during size up, he realized that he had enough fire to require a tanker shuttle as opposed to just using what water he had on wheels.I hear it all the time where M/A tankers are requested before all of the initial response is out the door.

As I have indicated on here in other threads, I do not live in Westchester and am not affiliated with any of the agencies which have had the misfortune of experiencing a structure fire in the past few months that were the topic of IA's, nor do I have any acquaintances in any of these departments. I am as far removed from these incidents as can be, so it doesn't "hit close to home" for me or make me feel uncomfortable (according to Mapquest, the Banksville firehouse, for instance, is 50 miles away). I am also not trying to "brush this problem under the rug".
There may well be a response issue in Westchester, there may well be a need for consolidation and regionalization. I don't know. I asked in a post a week or so ago to cite any publicly available information from any source in the way of a study or position paper that addressed the issue so that we could all be better informed. Never heard a word in reply. Does one exist? Does anyone at the County level agree that there is a problem? Has the County Executive or any public official (town, city or otherwise)made any comments or taken any action to at least identify the issue? I don't know, give us some real information instead of insinuation, conjecture and speculation based on unreliable information in an internet posting forum.
Please, chief, understand the difference between the "issue", and the methodology with which one pursues that issue. There may be a valid point in terms of staffing and response times, but that issue and the pursuit of a solution is diminished when the pursuit is based on conjecture and less than factual information. If you have facts, then fine, share them with us. If you don't, then get some. You must have access to some form of records, as dispatch records must be public information available with a FOIL request. Get the dispatch records for the last month. Stucture fires in Banksville, Croton Falls, Somers, and Mohegan Lake come to mind. Wouldn't be a lot of work to get information on 6-8 incidents. Put some facts together in an organized, analytic way that proves your position. Do that, demonstrate the problem that you say exists based on IA's from anyone with a computer, and I'll be a believer. Until then, it's all conjecture, rumor and hearsay.
One last point, which I'll put in a separate paragraph in case Seth and the boys feel the need to edit it out. Read your last paragraph. "...you are easily upset...", "...you very uncomfortable...", "You are blaming..." and "...puts you in a small minority". Let' keep the discussion about the issue, and not a personal attack the minute someone disagrees with you.

Just so we're clear..... read my entire sentence. "Who knows who's right, and who cares?". As in, "who cares who's right?", not "who cares about response times". Honestly, it's great to engage in honest discourse over the topics of the day, including response times and staffing levels, but let's stop the nit-picking over what time each piece of equipment got out unless you have reliable information.
There is an awful lot of hearsay and misinformation that ends up being the topic of a two or three page thread on here. My point is that two people come forward with information from the same incident with dramatically different response times, not seconds apart, but minutes. Check the thread, how do you account for an 8 minute difference in what two people heard? And since there is such a discrepancy, how do you sit at a distance and feel qualified to opine on what should have been done with incomplete and imperfect information? Yes, seconds count, and yes, we should all strive to provide the highest level of service, at the safest, most efficient speed that conditions allow. What doesn't count is an endless barrage of criticism over every single incident.
Don't worry about my feelings Chief, I don't "TIP", just tired of the same old harangue every time there is a structure fire IA.

Just so we're clear..... read my entire sentence. "Who knows who's right, and who cares?". As in, "who cares who's right?", not "who cares about response times". Honestly, it's great to engage in honest discourse over the topics of the day, including response times and staffing levels, but let's stop the nit-picking over what time each piece of equipment got out unless you have reliable information.
There is an awful lot of hearsay and misinformation that ends up being the topic of a two or three page thread on here. My point is that two people come forward with information from the same incident with dramatically different response times, not seconds apart, but minutes. Check the thread, how do you account for an 8 minute difference in what two people heard? And since there is such a discrepancy, how do you sit at a distance and feel qualified to opine on what should have been done with incomplete and imperfect information? Yes, seconds count, and yes, we should all strive to provide the highest level of service, at the safest, most efficient speed that conditions allow. What doesn't count is an endless barrage of criticism over every single incident.
Don't worry about my feelings Chief, I don't "TIP", just tired of the same old harangue every time there is a structure fire IA.

Just so we're clear..... read my entire sentence. "Who knows who's right, and who cares?". As in, "who cares who's right?", not "who cares about response times". Honestly, it's great to engage in honest discourse over the topics of the day, including response times and staffing levels, but let's stop the nit-picking over what time each piece of equipment got out unless you have reliable information.
There is an awful lot of hearsay and misinformation that ends up being the topic of a two or three page thread on here. My point is that two people come forward with information from the same incident with dramatically different response times, not seconds apart, but minutes. Check the thread, how do you account for an 8 minute difference in what two people heard? And since there is such a discrepancy, how do you sit at a distance and feel qualified to opine on what should have been done with incomplete and imperfect information? Yes, seconds count, and yes, we should all strive to provide the highest level of service, at the safest, most efficient speed that conditions allow. What doesn't count is an endless barrage of criticism over every single incident.
Don't worry about my feelings Chief, I don't "TIP", just tired of the same old harangue every time there is a structure fire IA.

So there you go boys and girls,enough holes in the times to drive a tanker through. Did Banksville's tanker respond at 16:19 or 16:27? What arrived on scene at 16:28, E157, E158, or both? Read through this thread and see how different the times are from one person to the next. Who knows who's right, and who cares? Once again, a lot of Monday morning quarterbacking and commentary by people who were not involved whatsoever, speculating and criticizing with incomplete, inaccurate information. I fail to see what is gained by all of this. My two cents.

I agree with Fireguy43,well said.
It's ok to ask questions, but make sure you get the correct answers from someone who was involved in the incident.
Don't guess, or speculate. Go ask a Chief, or an officer from that Dept.

So there you go boys and girls,enough holes in the times to drive a tanker through. Did Banksville's tanker respond at 16:19 or 16:27? What arrived on scene at 16:28, E157, E158, or both? Read through this thread and see how different the times are from one person to the next. Who knows who's right, and who cares? Once again, a lot of Monday morning quarterbacking and commentary by people who were not involved whatsoever, speculating and criticizing with incomplete, inaccurate information. I fail to see what is gained by all of this. My two cents.

So there you go boys and girls,enough holes in the times to drive a tanker through. Did Banksville's tanker respond at 16:19 or 16:27? What arrived on scene at 16:28, E157, E158, or both? Read through this thread and see how different the times are from one person to the next. Who knows who's right, and who cares? Once again, a lot of Monday morning quarterbacking and commentary by people who were not involved whatsoever, speculating and criticizing with incomplete, inaccurate information. I fail to see what is gained by all of this. My two cents.

So there you go boys and girls,enough holes in the times to drive a tanker through. Did Banksville's tanker respond at 16:19 or 16:27? What arrived on scene at 16:28, E157, E158, or both? Read through this thread and see how different the times are from one person to the next. Who knows who's right, and who cares? Once again, a lot of Monday morning quarterbacking and commentary by people who were not involved whatsoever, speculating and criticizing with incomplete, inaccurate information. I fail to see what is gained by all of this. My two cents.

So there you go boys and girls,enough holes in the times to drive a tanker through. Did Banksville's tanker respond at 16:19 or 16:27? What arrived on scene at 16:28, E157, E158, or both? Read through this thread and see how different the times are from one person to the next. Who knows who's right, and who cares? Once again, a lot of Monday morning quarterbacking and commentary by people who were not involved whatsoever, speculating and criticizing with incomplete, inaccurate information. I fail to see what is gained by all of this. My two cents.