Dinosaur

If the water department is requested on a rush for a water main break or Con Ed electric is requested for down wires on a rush, should they all have emergency lights and sirens too?
 
Sorry for the sarcasm but there are all ready too many vehicles with red lights and sirens.  Adding more won't help us get anywhere and it isn't about what an IC wants.  It's what the law says.  There's no provision in law for utility vehicles to be emergency vehicles.

The fire department is already there, they responded with lights and siren.  They can make the scene safe until Con Ed arrives whether within 14 minutes or 40 minutes.

If the water department is requested on a rush for a water main break or Con Ed electric is requested for down wires on a rush, should they all have emergency lights and sirens too?
 
Sorry for the sarcasm but there are all ready too many vehicles with red lights and sirens.  Adding more won't help us get anywhere and it isn't about what an IC wants.  It's what the law says.  There's no provision in law for utility vehicles to be emergency vehicles.

The fire department is already there, they responded with lights and siren.  They can make the scene safe until Con Ed arrives whether within 14 minutes or 40 minutes.

If the water department is requested on a rush for a water main break or Con Ed electric is requested for down wires on a rush, should they all have emergency lights and sirens too?
 
Sorry for the sarcasm but there are all ready too many vehicles with red lights and sirens.  Adding more won't help us get anywhere and it isn't about what an IC wants.  It's what the law says.  There's no provision in law for utility vehicles to be emergency vehicles.

The fire department is already there, they responded with lights and siren.  They can make the scene safe until Con Ed arrives whether within 14 minutes or 40 minutes.

 
I disagree.  I think all police cars should be the same - different patches, fine - but I happen to like knowing that when I am visiting California I'm looking at a police car and not a taxi.  State law in CA has all police cars black and white and even specifies that there have to be certain lighting combinations to insure they are recognized as a police vehicle. 

There's no rhyme or reason here in NY.  At all.

The aviation industry has made great strides in improving safety since the advent of crew resource management.  We don't need a show called firefighting disasters, we have the news for that.  We see our failures live and in person right on the evening news.  I hope your comments are tongue in cheek but they smack of the arrogance in the fire service that is above being criticized.  Right now we desperately need some constructive criticism. 

Delays due to not meeting any kind of standards or because we don't have a plan or procedure for response are inexcusable.  Delays due to a safe response are not delays at all.  If you think it is correct to drive fast through intersections and not wear a seatbelt, first of all please be an organ donor but second of all, the seconds saved are negligible.  That's simple fact and is borne out by studies every year.
 
Response times because it takes 10-15 minutes to staff the apparatus is a topic for response time thread.  Not it took them 4.5 minutes to drive from the house to the scene. 
Responses with less than a full crew are a topic for response thread. 

I'm probably more pissy than usual today because nowadays the only time I wear my old class A's is for funerals and memorial services but the airline industry admitted they had a problem!

Yes, it will hit us or it will miss us. 

Now I can be a meteorologist.
 

 
 
That's more fire load than most places will see in a decade (or longer) and that was just one month!  Crazy.
 

At a fire call, the transmission of "all-hands" results in the addition of a rescue company and squad company to the box.  They may or may not be assigned on transmission of a 10-75.  It also serves as a heads-up that everyone is working for incoming resources or those that may be "next" due.
 
At a non-fire, it simply indicates that everyone is engaged in some capacity.  I believe, and it has been many years since dealing with it, on non-fires it is simply informational.
 

Yes, it will hit us or it will miss us. 

Now I can be a meteorologist.
 

Yes, it will hit us or it will miss us. 

Now I can be a meteorologist.
 

Yes, it will hit us or it will miss us. 

Now I can be a meteorologist.
 

Yes, it will hit us or it will miss us. 

Now I can be a meteorologist.
 

Yes, it will hit us or it will miss us. 

Now I can be a meteorologist.
 

Yes, it will hit us or it will miss us. 

Now I can be a meteorologist.
 

Laytheline,
 
Sorry, but you are about 8 years late to this story and discussion. The time to debate structure, charter requirements, chain of command, etc. has long been established through a series of charter revisions, court actions, and collective bargaining agreements. 
 
The staffing and number of career apparatus are contained within the CBA and recently include an increase by 2 per shift. 
 
I am sure that future CBAs with the Union will discuss and hopefully include staffing adjustments to include additional Battalion Chief or equivalent level supervision. In addition, the Long Ridge paid drivers issue will eventually and inevitably include some type of incorporation into the City staffing levels. 
 
The chain of command has also now been clearly defined within the latest CBA.
 
As far as the fate of the remaining volunteer companies, with the exception of one, they are almost all now nonexistent.
 
Simply put, due to the woefully inept "leaders" that continue to be voted into place by their members, they have allowed themselves to serve more as gadflies then a respectable ally in service. I do not believe any of them have the ability to assess the pathetic state of their organizations or their future.
 
They only know strife and discontent and now appear to relish at new opportunities to spend their energy and money on issues outside of public safety or strengthening their Departments.
 
Sad, but the crafty lingo that some of their T shirts would be more appropriate to read: "I have seen the enemy and the enemy is us".
 
 
 
 

I read this second letter and here's my answer to it. You gotta produce to be heard. To date and to the best of my knowledge NONE of the VFDs produce fully.  BFD does make all their calls with a completely volunteer staff save a houseman, but the level of FFs responding is often in question. Long Ridge makes theirs due to paid drivers 24/7,  but they are often responding alone. As for the rest, well...anything under 100% response is not producing at even a marginal level.
Beyond that;
NONE of them can bring a quantifiable means of measuring the competency of their officers to the table.
NONE of them can produce training records for ALL of their active members that meet even a minimal standard.
NONE of them ensure all of their active members attend even one live burn annually per OSHA
NONE of them can say 100% of their active members are physically fit per NFPA 1582
NONE of them can guarantee a response 24/7 or try to even reach that goal
NONE of them can cooperate to meet the needs of the residents they are there to serve...NONE of them. All are too concerned with only themselves and there own agendas instead of the only agenda that they should be concerned with...SERVING IN THE BEST INTEREST OF THE PEOPLE OF STAMFORD who have donated to all of them for decades.
 
I think you get the idea. 
 
As one who fought for years to build things up to meet the challenges listed above and many more beyond them, I can say this: I have absolutely no sympathy for their whining and foot stomping.  Boo hoo hoo, whaah whaah whaah, somebody call a Whaaahmbulance for these poor Chiefs. 
Look,  I sat with all of these Chiefs alone and as a group too many times to count to try to work out ways to meet the coming storm. Time after time I watched as heads nodded yes but actions said no to facing the realities of firefighting in Stamford in 2010,11,12, 13 14, 15. I bit my tongue then in the interest of keeping everyone together and trying to move forward. But no more. The whole "Pavia plan" and everything subsequent to it were a farce that even the Marx Brothers couldn't dream up...and to top it off they left Mike out to dry by not taking responsibility for the abortion of a plan it was that THEY THEMSELVES dreamed up.  No...no sympathy here, these Chiefs made the bed they all must now lie in because of their own arrogance.  ignorance, ineptitude and pettiness and frankly they deserve what they get, or don't I should say....I only wish the memberships had been better served by their "leaders".

http://hotshotdelivers.com/

Yes, it will hit us or it will miss us. 

Now I can be a meteorologist.
 

 
There isn't "ENOUGH help" in any Westchester County department anymore.  I don't care if it's paid or volunteer; the first due doesn't meet NFPA1710 or 1720 anywhere but perhaps Yonkers and even Yonkers has been cut back. 

At this fire and at most other fires there is no staging of additional resources; everyone is working and then they put the FAST to work so there's NOBODY left if something untoward happens.  There should be some resources available at the scene to go to work when it gets ahead of you.  We don't do that and it's going to bite us in the rear one of these days.  Luck only lasts for so long.

As for 1&1 on additional alarms, when it's all you can get...  It's what it is my friend. 

Contrary to this experience, consider the recent fire in Staten Island that went to a 6th Alarm.  I would guess that's close to 250 FDNY members.  How many did Bronxville have on their 4th?  Or even on the initial response.

The system is broken but nobody, and I mean nobody, will say that the emperor has no clothes!
 
 

 
There isn't "ENOUGH help" in any Westchester County department anymore.  I don't care if it's paid or volunteer; the first due doesn't meet NFPA1710 or 1720 anywhere but perhaps Yonkers and even Yonkers has been cut back. 

At this fire and at most other fires there is no staging of additional resources; everyone is working and then they put the FAST to work so there's NOBODY left if something untoward happens.  There should be some resources available at the scene to go to work when it gets ahead of you.  We don't do that and it's going to bite us in the rear one of these days.  Luck only lasts for so long.

As for 1&1 on additional alarms, when it's all you can get...  It's what it is my friend. 

Contrary to this experience, consider the recent fire in Staten Island that went to a 6th Alarm.  I would guess that's close to 250 FDNY members.  How many did Bronxville have on their 4th?  Or even on the initial response.

The system is broken but nobody, and I mean nobody, will say that the emperor has no clothes!
 
 

 
There isn't "ENOUGH help" in any Westchester County department anymore.  I don't care if it's paid or volunteer; the first due doesn't meet NFPA1710 or 1720 anywhere but perhaps Yonkers and even Yonkers has been cut back. 

At this fire and at most other fires there is no staging of additional resources; everyone is working and then they put the FAST to work so there's NOBODY left if something untoward happens.  There should be some resources available at the scene to go to work when it gets ahead of you.  We don't do that and it's going to bite us in the rear one of these days.  Luck only lasts for so long.

As for 1&1 on additional alarms, when it's all you can get...  It's what it is my friend. 

Contrary to this experience, consider the recent fire in Staten Island that went to a 6th Alarm.  I would guess that's close to 250 FDNY members.  How many did Bronxville have on their 4th?  Or even on the initial response.

The system is broken but nobody, and I mean nobody, will say that the emperor has no clothes!
 
 

 
There isn't "ENOUGH help" in any Westchester County department anymore.  I don't care if it's paid or volunteer; the first due doesn't meet NFPA1710 or 1720 anywhere but perhaps Yonkers and even Yonkers has been cut back. 

At this fire and at most other fires there is no staging of additional resources; everyone is working and then they put the FAST to work so there's NOBODY left if something untoward happens.  There should be some resources available at the scene to go to work when it gets ahead of you.  We don't do that and it's going to bite us in the rear one of these days.  Luck only lasts for so long.

As for 1&1 on additional alarms, when it's all you can get...  It's what it is my friend. 

Contrary to this experience, consider the recent fire in Staten Island that went to a 6th Alarm.  I would guess that's close to 250 FDNY members.  How many did Bronxville have on their 4th?  Or even on the initial response.

The system is broken but nobody, and I mean nobody, will say that the emperor has no clothes!
 
 

 
There isn't "ENOUGH help" in any Westchester County department anymore.  I don't care if it's paid or volunteer; the first due doesn't meet NFPA1710 or 1720 anywhere but perhaps Yonkers and even Yonkers has been cut back. 

At this fire and at most other fires there is no staging of additional resources; everyone is working and then they put the FAST to work so there's NOBODY left if something untoward happens.  There should be some resources available at the scene to go to work when it gets ahead of you.  We don't do that and it's going to bite us in the rear one of these days.  Luck only lasts for so long.

As for 1&1 on additional alarms, when it's all you can get...  It's what it is my friend. 

Contrary to this experience, consider the recent fire in Staten Island that went to a 6th Alarm.  I would guess that's close to 250 FDNY members.  How many did Bronxville have on their 4th?  Or even on the initial response.

The system is broken but nobody, and I mean nobody, will say that the emperor has no clothes!
 
 

 
There isn't "ENOUGH help" in any Westchester County department anymore.  I don't care if it's paid or volunteer; the first due doesn't meet NFPA1710 or 1720 anywhere but perhaps Yonkers and even Yonkers has been cut back. 

At this fire and at most other fires there is no staging of additional resources; everyone is working and then they put the FAST to work so there's NOBODY left if something untoward happens.  There should be some resources available at the scene to go to work when it gets ahead of you.  We don't do that and it's going to bite us in the rear one of these days.  Luck only lasts for so long.

As for 1&1 on additional alarms, when it's all you can get...  It's what it is my friend. 

Contrary to this experience, consider the recent fire in Staten Island that went to a 6th Alarm.  I would guess that's close to 250 FDNY members.  How many did Bronxville have on their 4th?  Or even on the initial response.

The system is broken but nobody, and I mean nobody, will say that the emperor has no clothes!
 
 

 
They should start by explaining to them why they are so understaffed that they need 4 departments to put out a house fire.