drgripsthrowawaytowel

I remeber we were sitting in the Fire House Kitchen when the news of the fire broke and live fotage was interupting whatever was on. We all said: "They do not realize that they are operating at a bowstring truss". We could see it on the news 10-15 minutes before the collapse.
I hate to say it but, the majority of the fire service has already forgotten this or never learned the leason of this fire (and others).
If we allow our firefighters to respond to and enter structures without understanding the hazards of different construction, we have forgotten.
If we fail to utilize proper communications (including seperate fireground and dispatch) systems, we have forgotten.
If we fail to have enough firefighters during the early stages of a fire and enough in reserve (FAST & Stagging), we have forgotten.
If we fail to regularly inspect (and preplan) structures and allow illegal and dangerious practices to continue, we have forgotten.
When span of control is exceded and ICS not utilized, IC get overloaded and can not protect the members, we have forgotten.

The above conditions still occur in many departments and we will again have another incident that we "Will Never Forget".
Does your minimum training include; building construction for the fire service?
Does your dept. know its district and the hazards in it? If you do not do inspections/preplans, than the answer is NO.
Do you have proper communications (every LODD report says most do not)?
Do you have enough staff, early enough and trained properly?
Do you have properly trained staff, with the resources to command and properly run a firefight.
I keep fighting this fight, because I do remember.
"Let no man's ghost return to say: MY Training Let Me Down"

Anyone who claims that an increase in training will cause volunteer numbers to drop has their head up their brown pipe. Just take a look at numerous other states that require that volunteers are at par with career. No drop in membership, but an increase in effectiveness... imagine that!
If someone wants to quit because the requirements are too strict, good. gtfo. My life, my crews life, and the life of the public is too important to place on the back of a federally mandated 10 hours of OSHA training once a year. If you personally go out and train more, excellent. What needs to happen is the state needs to grow some cajones, manup, and force training requirements that are on par with your counterparts.
Unfortunately, this state's biggest opposition is FASNY, and it will take a large army to change anything.
Anyone who thinks otherwise has drank the kool-aid.

Anyone who claims that an increase in training will cause volunteer numbers to drop has their head up their brown pipe. Just take a look at numerous other states that require that volunteers are at par with career. No drop in membership, but an increase in effectiveness... imagine that!
If someone wants to quit because the requirements are too strict, good. gtfo. My life, my crews life, and the life of the public is too important to place on the back of a federally mandated 10 hours of OSHA training once a year. If you personally go out and train more, excellent. What needs to happen is the state needs to grow some cajones, manup, and force training requirements that are on par with your counterparts.
Unfortunately, this state's biggest opposition is FASNY, and it will take a large army to change anything.
Anyone who thinks otherwise has drank the kool-aid.

I don't know much about Irvington Fire Department but I don't know how you could have the knowledge of the Westchester Department's to make such a statement. Add that to the fact that there are 4 fully career departments and more than that mostly career departments who train everyday. No offense but it irks me when people make statements like this that they have no factual evidence to base it off.

I disagree Chris, respectfully. I think it is very important that we continue to take opportunities when available to educate the public concerning the fact that monies which are donated to volunteer fire departments rarely, if ever, are used for purchase of firefighting equipment, or for training, or such purposes, but rather the monies people donate to volunteer fire departments are used for parties, extravagant dinners, vacations and excursions, etc.
Also, it is important to continue to emphasize that although there are lots of dedicated volunteer firefighters, such as Nick, who want to do the right thing in regard to being trained, prepared, and ACCOUNTABLE, there are many other volunteer firefighters who take advantage of the system, collect pensions and other perks,use the firehouses as a social club, and who have extremely little legitimate training, are unable to provide the service they claim they provide, and are basically accountable to no one.

I'm a member of IFD. Do these families need anything? Can we donate clothes or anything? My father works for a very large clothing company in NYC. Maybe we can donate?

From reading the Patch sounds like it was more than hear say as an administrative judge found fault and a member was suspended. It also sounds like one of Irvington's best is trying to do just that: go about his job safely but he is not being allowed to cuz he wont join a social club. What a shame that a guy who wants to help people is being blocked. What's wrong with this picture?

Gee, ya saying that the "company" isn't dedicated to firefighting?! What a sad statement this is that a motivated guy has to create a "company...dedicated to firefighting" to get the job done. Who's running this show?? I can see who's ruining it!

Gotta love Texas!
http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/06/20/12313459-no-charges-for-texas-father-who-killed-daughters-alleged-molester

We're going to really do this thread again? The dept responds to ensure there is no life threat. If everyone is out of the structure and the fire will not spread it is allowed to burn. The homeowner knew the risk when they chose to not participate in funding the FD.
If they offer their full services regardless of whether or not they paid, why would anyone pay until they needed help. You're now punishing everyone that was responsible and paid their fair share.

I am not pleased with the anti union action that many republicans have taken but it's not enough for me to vote for obama. If you think the democrats give a s*** about you or your union then I have a bridge to sell you real cheap and barely used.

Five years ago, to the day, the fire service lost the most number of men in a single incident since the events of 9/11/2001. Their unwavering sacrifice and untimely deaths have lead to sweeping changes in the fire service today. Let us not ever forget these men, or the events that happened that day, and always remember the Charleston 9.
Captain Mike Benke
Captain Bill Hutchinson
Captain Louis Mulkey
Engineer Mark Kelsey
Engineer Bradford “Brad” Baity
Asst. Engineer Michael French
Firefighter Earl Drayton
Firefighter Brendon Thompson
Firefighter Melvin Champaign
Rest in peace, Gentlemen. You are not forgotten.

Five years ago, to the day, the fire service lost the most number of men in a single incident since the events of 9/11/2001. Their unwavering sacrifice and untimely deaths have lead to sweeping changes in the fire service today. Let us not ever forget these men, or the events that happened that day, and always remember the Charleston 9.
Captain Mike Benke
Captain Bill Hutchinson
Captain Louis Mulkey
Engineer Mark Kelsey
Engineer Bradford “Brad” Baity
Asst. Engineer Michael French
Firefighter Earl Drayton
Firefighter Brendon Thompson
Firefighter Melvin Champaign
Rest in peace, Gentlemen. You are not forgotten.

Five years ago, to the day, the fire service lost the most number of men in a single incident since the events of 9/11/2001. Their unwavering sacrifice and untimely deaths have lead to sweeping changes in the fire service today. Let us not ever forget these men, or the events that happened that day, and always remember the Charleston 9.
Captain Mike Benke
Captain Bill Hutchinson
Captain Louis Mulkey
Engineer Mark Kelsey
Engineer Bradford “Brad” Baity
Asst. Engineer Michael French
Firefighter Earl Drayton
Firefighter Brendon Thompson
Firefighter Melvin Champaign
Rest in peace, Gentlemen. You are not forgotten.

46 law enforcement officers have been killed in the line of duty so far this year. Four of these officers were killed by vehicular assault. Seventeen by gunfire, 3 were stabbed, and one died in a vehicle pursuit.
Here we have a police officer chasing a potentially armed suspect (as 17 other officers this year did) in a vehicle pursuit (as one other officer this year did) and when confronted he was almost run down by the suspect (as four other officers this year actually were).
In this case, the police officer persevered and will be home with his family this Father's Day. For 46 other families, they have lost their father, brother, sister, mother, son, daughter and will never celebrate another holiday with them. There is a difference between the police and everyone else that most will never understand because, as others have so clearly stated in this thread, you really have to experience it to understand.
Will I shed a tear or lose a wink of sleep because this violent felon lost her life in a battle with police? No, I will not. If you think that makes me a sadist or makes my union a criminal enterprise, you're deluded. This police officer will have to live with the fact that he took a human life in the course of his duties. That may or may not be easy for him. If you've never had to make that decision, you can't appreciate the gravity of it.
Did she "deserve" to die? I don't believe she did but again, as has been pointed out here already, she set the wheels in motion (forgive the pun) that resulted in her death. There were a dozen different ways that her death could have been avoided, all under her control so she could be in jail right now instead of the ME's Office. She chose the path that resulted in here death.
If anyone thinks that empathy will defuse a violent situation that has already escalated into the realm of physical violence and assault, you're sorely mistaken. That ship has sailed! You don't bring a knife to a gunfight and you don't try to reason with someone who is actively trying to take your life. It's a bitter reality but until society changes and abides by those pesky little things called LAWS, we're going to have police officers enforcing the laws, sometimes using physical force to do so.
It's an imperfect world.

Great post! It's comforting to know that there are people in the olunteer fire service such as yourself who have their priorities right and are willing to speak up about how horribly wrong and deceitful the system can be to unknowing taxpayers who make donations, thinking they are going to legitimate fire protection assets, training, etc., and have no idea that these monies in fact go to parties, parades, and nonsense.

Nicoli's decisions have left his home community with 1 less life-saver. For those of you that don't know, he has been awarded numerous life saving awards as well as a congressional level award from Congresswoman Dr. Nan Hayworth last month. It is unfortunate that internal FD politics have resulted in his decision to no longer be a firefighter.
I don't think my own community as a whole is aware of the separation between the the company and the district functions, as mirrored in one of the comments above. I certainly did not understand this for several years after becoming a FF/EMT.
When we hold fundraising events such as a "boot drive", we get dressed in our PPE and hold out fire boots for motorists to donate money to our cause.... "OUR CAUSE?" Unless they have a personal connection to the FD, I doubt that any significant percentage of the donators understand that this $ is NOT going towards training, equipment or operational readiness. This is straight up false advertising. And I am personally sickened by it. I've told my friends and family that donated money annually to the fire dept through the companies annual fund drive, to stop.
I have witnessed repeatedly over the years, tens of thousands of dollars getting spent by my company on parades, annual dinners, installation dinners, christmas parties, etc... And simultaneously get turned down for much needed equipment and stonewalled on training funds by the fire commission. Although these are two separate entities, there seems to be something very very wrong with this. I did not join the FD to drink beer either. I did not join to go to parades.
Ask yourselves: are you going through more cans of ZEP and tubs of turtle wax than saw blades and saw fuel? Our pride should not come from how shiney and clean our trucks are, but rather how dirty and trashed our gear is from having training with it so much. I believe that if we prioritize the trophies that go in a glass case over what we actually signed up to do, we are more likely to end up in a pine box.

Nick didn't "bail out": he resigned from the "company" which is actually a social services and benevolent organization. At the time he was told by the village that he could do so. After seeking additional legal opinions, however, the village later rescinded its original opinion and he was told that he would have to rejoin the social services organization to remain an active firefighter, and that is where the dispute took off. Nick has been afforded the opportunity to rejoin the "company" but Nick has refused to do so as it against his principles and he sees the company as a source of much of the hostility directed towards him.
Nick is an outstanding firefighter and has been an incredible asset to the community. He is well known to all of the instructors in our region thanks to his dedication to training and mastering all aspects of firefighting. And yes, he is also very principled and refuses to compromise those principles. While I do not always agree with Nick, I have enormous respect for him. It is a shame that this has transpired and I hope that resolution will take place.
This law cited requiring members of a village fire department to also be members of a non-firematic social services organization calling thmselves a fire company is most unfortunate, and it is archaic. 150 years ago there were legit reasons to force firefighters be members of a company. But in this day and age where you have a municipal fire department and the company is no more than a social services entity (as is the case in Irvington, where the company has ZERO fire or emergency services role), this needs to be changed. I hope that perhaps this situation will prove to be a positive catalyst and that it will push lawmakers to reexamine obsolete and meaningless laws like this one.

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that your service if any has been in a volunteer capacity in a fairly safe community ( NO I AM NOT KNOCKING THE VOLUNTEER SERVICE OR THOSE PEOPLE WHO WORK IN LOW CRIME AREAS) With that being said, you made some pretty bold statements about cops, and you base all of it on the " many,many,many " cops you know so I guess you know a lot of the 800,000 law enforcement officers in this country to make such statements.
You have the balls to call people trash and then come on here with your backward, ignorant rambling diatribe about cops when in reality, I bet you wouldn't have the stones to be a cop, or your couldn't pass the psych.
I am a proud cop and a proud union member and I am proud to stand in the blue line with my brothers and sisters all over the country.
The only person I see on this forum acting like a little whiney girl is you, whining about your hatred for the cops.
You know what seperates cops from other people ? It's the fact that even though you come on here and slag us, if you needed help, every cop on these forums would lay down his life in defense of yours because that is the risk that we acknowledged when we took that job.
As far as the brothers in Brooklyn that were forced to shoot this woman, I say they did a great job, they protected themselves and the community from a criminal that was showing hostility and aggression and was posing a huge risk not only to the cops but to the community.
As far as cops laughing as dead perps, etc... cops utilize gallows humor as a way to deal with a stressful situation, it may not look or sound nice but it is a tried and true method of calming your nerves after an intense situation and has nothing to do with being desensitised or cruel.

That's because firefighters put out fires. Trucks definatly don't Engines help.

City Of White Plains - Hebard's House Fire , Soundview Ave - June 24, 1946.

White Plains pumper in the driveway.

Aerial to the roof.

June 24, 1946

Seems like our brothers in blue have had a busy week. All in a days work. Great job!

Thank you! There'll be a little something extra for you in your spam folder later.

Wrong. As with any emergency, as long as you have a plan in place, and that plan is to "Contact X resource for their specialty," then your covered. I'm sure you have sewers and confined spaces in your district. Do you have a confined space rescue team in house, in your department ready to go? If someone is digging a trench, are you required to immediately train and supply them with a technical rescue team specializing in trench rescue out of your department? No.
If the plan in place in your SOG/SOP's is to call for a specialized team, then your department has done their required duty. You can train your members to reach, and throw, but rowing and going is a different skill.
Just as a friendly correction, it's reach, throw, row, go.

Wrong. As with any emergency, as long as you have a plan in place, and that plan is to "Contact X resource for their specialty," then your covered. I'm sure you have sewers and confined spaces in your district. Do you have a confined space rescue team in house, in your department ready to go? If someone is digging a trench, are you required to immediately train and supply them with a technical rescue team specializing in trench rescue out of your department? No.
If the plan in place in your SOG/SOP's is to call for a specialized team, then your department has done their required duty. You can train your members to reach, and throw, but rowing and going is a different skill.
Just as a friendly correction, it's reach, throw, row, go.