SmokeyJoe

As always, the good captain is right on target. Good point, B!

As always, the good captain is right on target. Good point, B!

If that was such a good concept there would be more than a few hundred communities out of the 33,000 fire depts and however many police depts in the us.
Most places one service becomes the bastard step child and there is no one to bring the fight to the elected officials. With a police and fire commissioner, at least they get to argue the depts case.

Wow! Unfortu
Wow! Unfortu
Wow! This is such a shame! Thank you Mr. Kabelev and Mr. Natkin for speaking up about this. There truly are many good people like yourselves in the Volunteer Fire Service. We need to keep exposing this system for what it currently is throughout Westchester County so that it will be able to evlove into something we can all be proud of and that will truly serve those we are sworn to protect.
Also a big thanks to those posters on both sides of the issue who have kept this horse alive and motivated me to kep posting even though I haver been away on vacation. If this thread had been dropped we might not haver gotten to the point of having access to this very enlightening article here on EMTBravo.

NYS decides what for you? The training that they provide or the training that is required?
FASNY has always complained that the training requiremens are too much, so OFPC reduced the number of hours in the FF1 class. OFPC for 20 years said it took at least 15 hours to teach the NYS and Federally mandated Hazmat Operations course. When the current FF1 class came out the kept the 15 hours of material and only allow for 3 hours to cover it. Since NYS Law says all firefighters (not vol, not career, not interior, not exterior, but ALL Firefighters) must be certified by their employer (and the courts have ruled that VFD's are employer for this) prior to responding to ANY Calls. So if you only follow NYS and your members have not had at least another 12 hours (inhouse) they are in violation of the law.
OFPC does not require Confined Space Training, but as Tarrytown found out state law does.
Rewards are a good way to retain members and thus I have no problem with rewards as long as 1) It is clear to the community that that is what the money is being used for and 2) the people being rewarded are actually performing the service that the community is rewarding them for. From the Patch articles it sounds like both #1 and #2 are at issue.
Do those making donations know that the money is being used to reduce fire protection during those times the members leave the community for these events?

A real loss for the YFD

Looks like you may be wrong in the case of the IVFD. See the latest here:
http://rivertowns.patch.com/articles/ccccccc

Bugler thank you for your post. You seem like a genuine person who's heart is in the right place. I'm sorry if you have felt insulted by anything I have posted. It was not my intention to offend anyone. I do not have specific information in regard to your departments finances. However, I think it is likely that if you looked into it you would find that a large percentage of the money which is donated to your department is in fact used for such things as entertainment, food and beverages, including alcohol, and purchases of itmes which are not used for Firefighting purposes. This is the case in very many volunteer Fire Departments in New York State. It is my opinion that most people who donate to a volunteer fire department are totally unaware that the money is likely spent in the manner I have described.
You mentioned that classes are there for you "anytime I want or have the time to"...Don't you think that in a profession (career or volunteer of course) as important as Firefighting, the training given to members should be fairly standardized and that certain levels of training should be mandatory, and not given just to those members who"want "the training or "have time for it"?

I find it interesting how every post generally turns into a Paid vs. Volunteer issue or a Fire vs. Police issue. As a former NYS Fire Instructor who has trained many volunteers and a former director of the Westchester Career Fire Academy who has trained many career firefighters, there are many excellent and dedicated career and volunteer firefighters as there are many not so excellent career and volunteer firefighters. You are always going to have individuals who are going to play the system (career and volunteer), using it to their advantage, and getting everything out of it for themselves that they can. This is a fact of life and it’s not changing anytime soon.

Let’s all wake up, the fire really doesn’t care if you are paid or volunteer, it’s not going to say “lets take it easy on them, they are volunteers”. It is paramount that all firefighter’s career and volunteer keep current skills and training. The same applies to the poor victim trapped in a fire or motor vehicle, do you really think they care what the patch on your sleeve states, FD, PD, paid or volunteer!

Everyone’s time would be better spent working together, FD, PD, paid and volunteer, for the common good and betterment of emergencies services, rather then bickering over who is better or who’s doing who’s job.

if your issue is not with career Firefighters, but rather with me, why then did you make the post alleging widespread abuse of workers compensation by career Firefighters?
Also, to my many friends and acquaintences in the Volunteer Fire Service, please read my posts before buying into this guys attempt at labeling me as anti-volunteer Firefighter. As I have said before, I am not at all anti Volunteer Firefighter, but rather anti-hypocrisy, just like many members of the volunteer Fire Service, with several fine examples recently in Irvington.

Based on the comments in the Patch I would say this is the case in Irvington too

Well stated chief. The company leaders in many NYS villages just dont seem to get it do they? This is not there money to play around with. Meanwhile they b**** about retention but when they get a standup guy like Nick they chase him away. Go figure.

I'm not aware of any career departments who collect donations which are used for anything other than charitable works. Any partying which is done comes out of the members own pockets.

Bottom line: there are two problems here:
1) lack of accountability and mismanagement of donations by fire company (chief probably has zero csay)
2) abusive behavior directed towards and active member
Even if a fraction of what I have been reading was true, these guys really need to cleanup the mess and get their house in order.

Well stated chief. The company leaders in many NYS villages just dont seem to get it do they? This is not there money to play around with. Meanwhile they b**** about retention but when they get a standup guy like Nick they chase him away. Go figure.

Bottom line: there are two problems here:
1) lack of accountability and mismanagement of donations by fire company (chief probably has zero csay)
2) abusive behavior directed towards and active member
Even if a fraction of what I have been reading was true, these guys really need to cleanup the mess and get their house in order.

Well stated chief. The company leaders in many NYS villages just dont seem to get it do they? This is not there money to play around with. Meanwhile they b**** about retention but when they get a standup guy like Nick they chase him away. Go figure.

Well stated chief. The company leaders in many NYS villages just dont seem to get it do they? This is not there money to play around with. Meanwhile they b**** about retention but when they get a standup guy like Nick they chase him away. Go figure.

I disagree Chris, respectfully. I think it is very important that we continue to take opportunities when available to educate the public concerning the fact that monies which are donated to volunteer fire departments rarely, if ever, are used for purchase of firefighting equipment, or for training, or such purposes, but rather the monies people donate to volunteer fire departments are used for parties, extravagant dinners, vacations and excursions, etc.
Also, it is important to continue to emphasize that although there are lots of dedicated volunteer firefighters, such as Nick, who want to do the right thing in regard to being trained, prepared, and ACCOUNTABLE, there are many other volunteer firefighters who take advantage of the system, collect pensions and other perks,use the firehouses as a social club, and who have extremely little legitimate training, are unable to provide the service they claim they provide, and are basically accountable to no one.

Nick has handled himself with dignity and restraint, given that this is a situation that has been ongoing for so long. Irvington has been most fortunate to have a firefighter so dedicated to a culture of firefighter safety. You clearly do not know him or much about the circumstances if you believe he "should leave the area." He did nothing at all wrong and has worked within the chain of command. I only wish we had more people like him.

I'm a member of IFD with 20 plus years and at this point if I did not have to remain a member of the company to remain in the Department I would have already left. I can already hear the company officers saying then leave. I was Chief when this incident took place. That should identify me! First I will Apoligize to Nyq for how he was treated and say I wish I could have done more for you as Chief. At least the Village waited until I was out of office to ask you to resign. It's is actually interesting how you co-existed for almost a year and a half after you resigned from the company and remained with the Department with no issues. If the company did not decide to go non profit (or make it legal) Nyq would probably still be active in the department.Why is the company opening up additional corporations now? I also will say I'm embarrassed at the way the Company states they investigated? they agreed to let the villages investigate as one company officer stated. The Company is a separate entity(With separate company officers) occupying space in a village building should they not have an obloigation(legal) to investigate all claims of misconduct, sexual harrasment etc are they exempt from EEO laws? I took this complaint to the village after I discussed it with a Village trustee who was in attendance at the meeting when Nyq made his claim (I arrived at this meeting late from work however I did hear the tape from the meeting it was disgraceful) and was told if I did not bring the complaint to the village he would have to.I was critized by some of the membership even though as a elected village official I had a legal obligation to bring these claims forward maybe the company needs additional EEO training. I know after this incident we had a couple of hours I'm not sure it's enough. At least the Village's investigation was completed almost over a year and a half later. I think we in the all volunteer services know know how hard it is to find and retain good volunteers or even get our current members to respond as much as they are need. When the Village was trying to find the law that eliminated Nyq from the from the company I made a suggestion to the village administrator and one member of the current board that would have kept these issues in house I hope they and the other board members will do all they can to help find a solution to retain all the volunteers it can. If not I see it as a huge disservice to the Village residents. To the Current Chiefs especially Chief. Ruffler and Assistant Chief DePaoli I will apoligize now for any issues I will cause with this post. I will also thank you both for giving me 110 percent as my assistant Chiefs and only hope that once this is resolved I can continue to serve you and the village residents. As many of the posts state there a many quailfied firefighters in the IFD. Why should it not do eveything it can to retain and recruit all additional members.

Very good points, Chief. We need more accountability and transparency. And the message being sent to members committed to training and professionalism like Nick should be positive, rather than payback. Not for nothing but it sounds like these guys need to reevaluate their priorities.

Very good points, Chief. We need more accountability and transparency. And the message being sent to members committed to training and professionalism like Nick should be positive, rather than payback. Not for nothing but it sounds like these guys need to reevaluate their priorities.

The Patch has posted an update to its original article:
http://rivertowns.patch.com/articles/comments-on-earlier-story-spark-further-debate-about-irvington-fd
This issue is not unique to Irvington, nor to Westchester. It is time to fix what is broken: these companies and departments can no longer operate without proper leadership or accountability. Something is wrong when a guy like Nick is harassed and driven out of town rather than promoted. This law requiring a member to join both company and department needs to be updated.
Too bad they don't spend as much time energy or money on training!

Gee, ya saying that the "company" isn't dedicated to firefighting?! What a sad statement this is that a motivated guy has to create a "company...dedicated to firefighting" to get the job done. Who's running this show?? I can see who's ruining it!