Medic5274

I don't really see how you can enforce that in this age of social media. Especially with the censorship or "big brother" claims that would be made. So if I wanted to "tweet" I'm at the firehouse I should call the department's lawyer?

You enforce it by having a strong command structure that enforces the rules of the department. You instill in your membership the rules of your department and you explain that no one is trying to censor anyone but trying to protect them and the department. All members have to realize that all their actions related to the fire department are under constant srutiny and the Chief and legal console have the right to restrict actions that could potentially jepardize the department or put them in a situation where they have to defend a certain action. Just look how every photo posted on EMT Bravo is scrutinized by the masses. Everyone has a different slant on what the picture is portraying both good and bad or appropriate tactics vs inapproriate tactics.

When you join a fire department you are committing to an organization that is better than one indivdual and survives because of an uncompromised belief in the department and the membership. In a para military structure like the fire department you do what is best for the department. Restricting the posting of fire scene photos to prevent legal action is justified.

I went through a 7 year protracted legal challenge with a plaintiff who tried to support his legal challenge with fire ground photos so I speak from experience on the danger of posting photos. (Legal challenges against the fire department were quickly thrown out but we were dragged into a battle between the building owner and tenants who both used fire scene photos to push their arguements) Members who don't understand the legal ramifications photos can have on your department really need to be brought up to speed on what can happen. Believe me, you don't want to go through the multi year legal nightmare I was dragged into just because some member feels it is ok to post photos. If members don't think this is right then their prorities in relationship to the fire department need to be addressed immediately.

I do not see a problem with this as long as the video is not showing any out of control responses or responses that are over the top. It is important to remember that anyone can see these videos and they can often fall into the hands of the wrong people. The same goes for posting pictures of suspicious fires. If a department wants to post videos of "proper" responses to incidents then I do not see much of a problem. However, I have watched a lot of response videos that are not utilizing a "proper" response. I know we have all seen them...the fire truck that goes onto two wheels when it approaches the scene of a house fire with no entrapment, or the very popular response of the second due engine that is on the wrong side of the road and median going head on with every car. These put the departments at risk for legal action. As long as the departments are smart about the videos they post, I feel they can be a useful tool for viewers.

On another note, I feel there are way to many POV response videos up. These often show FF's responding erratically in their POV vehicle to either the scene or the firehouse. I do not feel that FF's or EMT's for that matter should be posting videos of them responding dangerously to calls. Departments should have rules against this. Some of these videos make me wonder how we get defensive when the citizens call the station and complain about FF's or EMT's responding to calls. It is not worth risking life and injury for a residential or commercial alarm...I know every-once in a while one of these is an actually fire but wait until your updated to put a rush on your response. The same goes for minor MVA's where you are called for traffic control or a small fluid spill...these are not emergencies and do not require risking lives to get to the incident.

The real issue is fire departments and personnel posting videos or pictures that show the victims or patients, dead or alive. This is not right and is disrespectful to the parties involved and their families. I don't think anyone would want there dead family members becoming part of an on-scene photo shoot. But that is a topic for another time and another thread...

In this litigious society we live in I don't think posting any pictures of fireground operations would be appreciated by the legal community that might have to defend the Chief, the department, municipality , fire district or individual firefighter involved in a lawsuit. You never know what angle people may come after the fire department from. They might want to go after them directly for some supposed malfeasance or they might want to use the photos to help settle a fire insurance dispute.

With people suing departments daily you just never know how your pictures may come back to haunt you. Lets not supply people with ammunition. We have no control over the posting of photos by others outside the department but we can minimize our own impact on our departments. I believe it should be a policy of the department to restrict members from posting pictures of their operations. Its sad we can't share experiences and possible training issues but you just never know who is looking to screw you.

Is there any real opreational benefit of having a dispatcher in a field communication vehicle onscene? During normal operations and the majority of mutual aid responses the dispatchers at 60-Control handle the calls from their site in Valhalla very well. From a cost saving perspective couldn't 60-Control assign one dispatcher to handle the mutual aid call from their site in Valhalla without going to the scene in the field comm. If someone had to be called in on OT they could respond to 60-Control and man the dispatch console designated to handle the mutual aid incident. The present field comm is designed as a communication vehicle only and is not utilized as a command and control facility or command post. Aside for the need to bring satellite communications, network connectivity and telephone service into the field the field comm at a fire scene is really just acting like an extension of 60-Control

Who do the "FIRE MUTUAL AID COORDINATORS" report to nowadays? Theoretically, it should be the 60 Control supervisor, since they are the mutual aid coordination center.

For incident related issues, I think the best idea would to be assign a dispatcher of 60 Control the position. Add an extra dispatcher or designate a qualified dispatcher on each shift, and when they are needed at a scene, they can respond in the Field Com or a SUV. If anyone knows what is where when and how to coordinate mutual aid, it's the dispatchers of 60 Control. But, of course, I doubt Westchester County would fund any such idea nowadays.

Also, mutual aid should be the push of a button. IC's should have MDT's....if they need another engine, press "Add Engine", or "Second Alarm Assignment".....that would free up some radio traffic, go straight into the 60 Control CAD (if capable) with resource recoemdnations based on the department's mutual aid plan. And units could log on or off as available.

Regarding all the other duties of a fire mutual aid coordinator, maybe leave that part as it is.

The Fire Mutual Aid Coordinator position deals with much more than fire response. The Coordinators report to the Deputy Commisisoner of Emergency Services (County Fire Coordinator). The use of the Mutual Aid Coordinator might not be the appropriate title for the duties of the postion. The simple title of Battalion Coordinator might be better.

A good Mutual Aid Coordinator is the liaisson between the departments within the battalion and the County. The coordinator should be advocating the posion of the departments he oversees. He should be pushing for training and keep abreast on any issues that may have an impact on the fire service. He should be the mouth piece for the departments he represents and be able to reprent them when dealing with all levels of government and bueracracy.

Reponding to mutual aid calls should be the least important functioin of his position. No Chief is going to give up the command and control of an incident in his jurisdiction. The coordinator should be there to assist in anyway but should not be expected to take over command or the ordering of mutual aid unless requested to by the IC.

A dispatcher is not required on scene to dispatch mutual aid. The IC should be able to keep track of the units he has requested through the appropriate mutual aid channels presently in use in the County. For larger scale incidents he should request assistance from the other Chiefs in his department or from some of the mutual aid chiefs reponding to the scene. If the chiefs can't handle that responsibility than maybe they shouldn't be in the role of Chief to begin with.

The fact that I am on the inside of such a volunteer department, with inside knowledge with respect to this rather beaten issue, should be specific enough.

Parades outside of a departments response jurisdictions are one of the biggest liabilities a chief officer faces every year during parade season. Taking apparatus outside the jurisdiction especially to a municipality on the other side of the county (or to Lake George) is a recipe for disaster. Departments are just setting themselves up for the fall.

With limited manpower available in many departments it is inexcusable to allow apparatus to be taken to a parade by the few firefighters a municipality has available. Making arrangements for mutual aid coverage during a parade is a band aid approach to providing coverage. I can rememebr several years ago responding with my company on mutual aid to a municipality several towns away during the Lake George weekend into a working fire and was one of the first companies to arrive. The muncipality the fire occurred in had several pieces of apparatus and a large number of members up in Lake George

The public and taxpayers we serve and are supported by have an expectation that the fire apparatus and firefighters from their department will respond when the alarm is sounded in their community. The mnicipality or district purchased the fire apparatus (I know some companies own their own rigs) and have entrusted their care and use to the fire department the Fire Chief and firefighters that man them. The apparatus is for emergency response not for parades. It is sad but many departments get more people out for a parade then they do far an alarm.

I love the social and departmental rivalries that are such a part of the fire service and believe stronly that they have their place and time but we have an obligation to serve our communities first. Taking a parade in a neighboring muncipality is an acceptable social event your department can enjoy because you are able to immediately respond back into your jurisdiction with minimal or no impact on response times. Any chief officer that allows apparatus to leave the jurisdiction for a social event or parade hosted in a distant municipality should say a prayer that nothing happens in their jurisdiction during the absence of department apparatus. Additionally, what if something happens in route to or coming home from a parade. How do you explain to taxpayers that the brand new $700,000 dollar apparatus was damaged or destroyed going to a parade?

Chief officers, in this litigous society we live in please think of the liability you assume during a parade before you permit your apparatus to go out of jurisdiction. You can and will be held liable if and when something goes terribly wrong

The county is proposing consolidating 36 departments into 19 at an estimated savings of $7.5 million. The Westchester Association of Fire Chiefs is apparently unhappy with this. The email I received only gave these links, a couple links to public hearing sessions, and a message imploring people to act now. It didn't actually explain what exactly is so bad. Maybe the folks here at Bravo can clear this up.

http://www.westchesterlegislators.com/MediaCenter/articleDetail.asp?artid=1163

http://www.westchesterlegislators.com/MediaCenter/2009/2010%20County%20Budget%20-%20Restructured.pdf

People are jumping way ahead of the facts with this one. The proposal that is being discussed on this forum was put forth by a rogue group of Democratic Legislators and was not developoed under the guidance of the entire Legislature. In fact many of their Democratic colleagues including Chairman of the Board Bill Ryan are not on board with the proposal at this time. This is a rather ingenius attempt to be fiscal saviors by these Legislators that have done nothing during the past twelve years under Andy Spano to put forth a cost saving proposal to help the overburdened taxpayers of this County.

County Executive-Elect Astorino has campaigned on reducing County government which might include the consolidation of some departments. He has not yet put forward a comprehensive plan for his administration and I think everyone should wait to see what he puts forward. I understand he has assembled a Transition Team that is examining every county department to identify cost savings, efficiencies, possible consolidations or out right elimination of departments. Lets not throw out rumors until a formal presentation of the future of DPS and DES is made. Peoples jobs are on the line and they should not have to be listening to new rumors everyday that may or may not impact their livelyhood and families.

We're approx. 47% tax exempt where I work. We have been working with Local, County, and State Government to work on a solution. Our problem is primary based on NYS Law, as we are a fire district, and unable to bill for EMS service, since we are a fire district, and not a City or Village Department.

Furthermore, NYS Comptroller issued an opinion that municipalities cannot use EMS billing as a way to turn a profit. Unfortunately, many City Manager-Types all too often see this as a way to do just that.

On a more interesting note, otherwise tax-exempt properties in NY are required to pay water and sewer assessments from their municipalities, as those are considered "essential" services....... kind of interesting, right?

Mbendel thanks for the response and I will reach out to you. That is an interesting fact about tax exempts paying water and sewer assessments as essential services. Maybe this is something the disfunctional State Legisslature can rtake up to help the local emergency services.

I am looking for information on how public safety departments, particularly fire departments deal with tax exempt properties and their budgets. In my municipality tax exempt properties is a huge budgertary problem. Almost 33% percent of the property is tax exempt. ( it is one of the highest in NY State). The public safety departments provide service to these tax exempt properties yet they contribute no tax money back to the municipality. We provide coverage fire coverage for 2 group homes for troubled youths, a college with dorms, a private high school with dorms, the public school system, a hospital, a nursing home and numerous houses of worship. We respond to at least one of these addresses several times a week.

Does anyone know of any way of recouping money from tax exempt agencies for services provided or have any programs or agreements in place that have been developed over the years with individual tax emexempt properties. We are a municipal funded fire department and there for do not have fire district tax money supporting or budget. NY State municipal law prevents direct taxation of the tax exempt property so I am looking for other ideas.

All departments in my municipality are facing anticiapted budget cuts in next years budget so I am looking for creative ways of increasing revenue streams.

Any constructive advice would be appreciated.

lol....No, we've told the members its very very very light red. Ran out of colors. When it came in the guys went a little nuts and asked why? I told them we already have that color on every rig (as a tag or ring, not the whole pipe). I was told "no way"...told them to check E-21. They asked when did we do that? I told them 8 years ago. They never noticed before E-25.

My daughter told them that that was the outlet for when we get girl firefighters.

Barry,

What is the normal staffing for Engine 25. I heard it was 1-Officer and 3-firefighters due to it being somewhat isolated from the rest of the companies in the City. What is the normal staffing of the rest of the companies in the NRFD

cross trained by who? to what level? are they county employees? is it like the fire brigade for west county? never gave it any thought before now you have my interest, any help

The crash rescue trucks are staffed by airport operations personnel. The rigs are often driven around the airport as the operations staff attend to their normal responsibilities. The airport has to meet FAA standards which I believe is getting water on a fire at any point of the airfiled within 90 seconds. They are dispatched by the airport on duty operations manager and the air traffic controllers in the tower. The tower I believe has a direct line to 60-Control which is used to request additional assistance from the nighboring departments. Additionally all of the rigs have radios for communication with 60-Control as well. Minimal staffing is one person per apparatus.

This type of response operation is in place all over the country. Most regional airports like Westchester don't have full time 24/7 ARFF personnel waiting for something to happen. The FAA sets the response equirements based on the number of flights and the size of the airplanes that utilize the airport.

As for carrying narcotics on your person, that is downstate thing. I've never seen that practice anywhere else. My narcs now are in a safe in the ambulance with a combination lock on it. At STAT they were in a locked drawer and a locked container.

As far as meds go, we have a policy to keep the ambulance running when outside if temps inside will be either above or below acceptable limits. In addition, in NH, each ambulance must have garage space, you cannot store your rigs outside.

As an old no longer practicing Paramedic from Harlem I have a question about carrying or not carrying narcotics on you. In the area I worked in we frequented alot of housing projects that had mutiple buildings 10-20 or even 30 stories tall. It is no exageration that it could take 20-30 minutes to get a patient out of one of these buildings due to the lack of working elevators. Without carrying the narcotics on our belts I believe some of my patients would have died or at a minimum would have taken a turn for the worst. Having the narcotics down in the ambulance seems like a long way away when you need them right away.

In the upstate community do you routinely experience this type of patient transport delay. If you routinely experience delays in transport has there been consideration to carrying the narcotics on your belt.

Not trying to say one part of the state does it better. In New York city we adapted our narcotic securement to the environment we worked in. Are there other considerations that are factored in to the decision of whether to carry or not carry the narcotics in the area you work.

On a side note a miss being a Paramedic and the excitement of working the streets.

Anybody have a list of the parade results. I know Montrose got best overall, congrats to them on a job well done, but I haven't heard about anyone else.

Here are the parade results from the Dobbs Ferry 125th Anniversary Parade:

Best Junior Corp - Hastings

Best Musical Unit - Westchester Brassmen

Best Engine Under 10 Years Old - Hastings

Best Engine Over 10 Years Old - Tarrytown Engine 80

Best Areial Apparatus - Hasting Ladder 22

Best Regulation Uniform - Ardsley

Best Overall - Montrose

listen it has been that way for years port chester has always gone 1&1 with a laddder and engine to mamaroneck i dont know why but mayb you should keep your mouth shut on a subject that you dont belong talking about ,cause you have no idea what your talking about dont turn this into a bashing topic

Do the residents who we are supposed to be helping have any say in where mutual aid is coming from. I bet if the general public knew policies are in place that don't involve bringing in the closest mutual aid during the early critical minutes of a fire would not be very happy especially if someone is hurt , killed or their property is destroyed.

Mutual Aid should be coming from the closest jurisdiction not from the one we have the best relationship with Any department that has a written or dispatch policy that states they call a certain department that is not their neighbor for mutual aid is playing with fire. I would like to see the Chief explain his skipping a neighboring department for mutual aid when he is sitting on the stand during a civil lawsuit. How many Village administrations know that this type of policy exists in their fire department.

This is a dangerous policy that should be changed immediately.

First off, we can question whatever we want.

My point was that if this involved some shmuck at a Getty station (or the newspaper that was reporting it) it would never hit the papers. Petty theft usually doesn't hit the papers. Its just another example of the media harping on public safety individuals over incidents that would never make the paper if they involved anyone else.

Thats the point. Because public safety personnel are often held to a different strandard by the public and the press we involved in the emergency services need to be even more vigilant in our actions In our minds we place ourselves higher then the general public so why should we get upset when the general public or press goes along with our thinking and holds us to a different standard.

There is also the fact that we and the public want people who are above reproach representing the fire service. Every time we are called out we are permittted to enter into someones private world and space which is a responsibility that should not be taken lightly. The behavior of this clown diminshes the trust developed between the fire service and the public. This behavior hurts the fire service more then the punishment he will recieve.

"Nolen first noticed the missing gas and reported it to police."

im more interested in knowing how he noticed 14 gallons of missing fuel??

You are more interested in knowing how they determined it was 14 gallons then the fact this clown stole from his own department. Maybe they were able to determine the amount so easily because they run a well organized outfit that is accountable to the department and the public they serve.

People should be questioning the actions of the one arrested and not the Chief who reported it or the news paper that reported on it.

Oh no's, 14 gallons of gas!

Must be a slow news day.

What's ironic is that I used to work for the Journal News and I saw employees and managers steal gas all the time from the company pumps. Why don't they write about that?

Its not the amount of gas that was stolen or deciding whether it was a slow news day. The fact is he stole from his department. This is inexcusable. There is a trust you are granted when entering the fire service and that is to hold your self above reproach. Firefighter is a special title granted to those that have agreed to put others first not themselves. Stealing from within your department destoys the bond that makes the firehouse and firefighters so special.

DAte: 7/13/07

Time: 0400 hours (approxiametely)

62 Belden Ave X Walker Place

DFPD dispatching DFFD for reported working structure fire - updated as porch fire by first arriving police officers

Fre: 46.26 FG-2

Small fire confined to porch with no extension to house

Writer Medic 5274

He is VERY lucky. 277v power kills very easily.

Even hours later the heart can stop again.

He's not out of the woods, yet.

Safety note to everyone out there. 277 volts are often used to supply flurecent light in commercial type strucutres. They are different from the flurecent lights that run on a ballst that are oftern encountered in private homes. they should be handled with extreme care if you have to work them at a fire scene

Ok, obviously my comments were misunderstood. First and foremost, i think that 60 Control needs to be expanded so that it can handle any and all calls from help, PD, FD, EMS. Period, amen. The county giving money to local PDs to update their dispatching equipment is nice and likely needed but highlights a failure to fully promote the need and benefits of centralized dispatching. Until the county is willing to spend the money to expand 60 control to where it could handle every call for help and until you have agency leadership making the switch to county control then who cares how an ambulance is numbered?

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Goose you need to learn the layout of 60-Control. 60-Control does only fire and EMS dispatching they don't due any police dispatching. The law enforcement dispatching in Westchester is even more convoluted then fire and EMS with 42 different law enforcement agencies dispatching police resources. THis includes small municipalities that have one car on the road. Where are you geting information that the county is helping local municipalities update their dispatch capabilites. The only help the County is providing is for police dispatching utilizing a new county-wide police frequency. This program is grant funded and not supported directly by county funds. A county wide police dispatching will never happen in Westchester and if it did it should not be part of 60-Control but under the authority of the County Police.

60-Control has made huge advances in their capabilities. They provide dispatching, I-page, mapping , run report assistance, pre-arrival medical assistance, and information on critical facilities as long as it is provided by a local department. What other agency has these capabilites. The County has spent millions of dollars over the last several years upgrading 60-Control and improving radio communications countywide. THey are in the process of a new radio system upgrade that is costing over fifteen million dollars. Once the bugs are worked out the new system will be a big benefit countywide. But it will only work to its full potential if every department is dispatched centrally by the County. The County has taken the iniative to improve the service. It is now time for every department to get on board to enjoy all the benefits being provide by 60-Control.

Its irrelevant? Your absolutely correct and make the point of why they should use the county designation system PERIOD.  How about getting on board with a system that has been in place for nearly 7 or 8 years now.  There is a form of centralized dispatch...it has nothing to do with county emergency services officials.  What makes you think they don't want that?  The system is there, agencies choose to stay in what is generally an a** backwards and substandard dispatching systems.  If its that irrelevant than why not get on board and knock off the BS.  Then what happens...those same agencies need something their dispatch cannot perform efficiently and then they call 60 control with the designations they use.

Who can complain....very few.  Those of us who consider ourselves emergency service advocates and care about the system as a whole discuss, debate and weigh in.  If you complain then you are just looking for an audience around the table at the station...not in the meetings where some good positive thinking and discussion can take place.

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ALSfirefighter you are absolutely correct. The system is in place and should be utilized by everyone. All of the fire appparatus designations are assigned by the County regardless of whether the department is dispatched by 60-Control and everyone uses those designations with pride. EMS should follow suit. Goose is missing the point with designations when he argues that they should only be used for mutual aid. There should never be a difference in dispatch protocols based on a mutual aid response. You can't blame the County for this mess. Individual departments are what is keeping a true County wide dispatch system from developing. Home rule form of governance is a lousy model for emergency preparedness and is preventing the development of a true countywide dispatch system

BLAHHHHHHHHH  ....  DISAPOINTED BY THE SHOW YET AGAIN.....

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I think this type of question does not belong on this forum. What does this have to do with public safety issues? Lets get back to the real issues

NYC*EMS was under the authority of the NYPD before the transfer to FDNY, can't forget that.

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NYC EMS was never under the control of the NYPD. Prior to the merger on March 17, 1996 they were part of the NY City Health and Hospital Corporation where they started in the early 70's

When I was with the city during the height of the crack wars we were told that the police were the only aganecy allowed to have them and that when the law changes and that you dont have to be a police officer to have a vest that will be when we get them. When did FDNY start to give them out ??????

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I spent 15 years working as a medic in the City in some of the roughest neighborhoods during the late 80's and early 90's crack war years. FDNY issued vests to those that wanted one. The problem at that time was there was no protocol in place mandating their use. Most of us did not were them full time because they were hot and uncomfortable. We hung them over the back of our seats and put them on if what thought the situation warranted their use. This in hindsight was very far sighted because we had no idea what was waiting behind a closed aprtment door. We often responded without the police so if something went bad we didn't have immediate backup to difuse the situation.

I and all of my EMS brethern working in some tough neighborhoods were often placed into situations you would never want to be. We were often very unprotected and in immediate harms way. My partners and I drove around in a ambulance that had two bullet holes from two different shootings that occured within one week. We stupidly took this as some type of badge of courage but it could have easily been one of us instead of the door of the ambulance that had a bullet hole in it.

If you are issed a vest you should wear it all the time, you just never know what type of situation you are going to be called to. As for needing the vest in a small quite town like Millbrook. I was riding as a volly in on of the smallest and safest Villages in Westchester County we were transporting a patient to WCMC who had ingested some pills. The patient jumped up in the stretcher and grabbed the gun from the police officer who was escorting us (I will not go into all of the rules the police broke by riding in the ambulance with a gun) a violent struggle ensued to get the gun away from the patient. It took three of us and one brken hand later to get the gun away from the patient. It can happen anywhere folks some don't become complacent about this issue. Protect yourself

all of westchester and rockland (and putnam, fairfield and nyc for that matter) is toast anyway if something happens there, not to mention what would happen to the first responders. it's a classic case of tuck you head between your legs and kiss your butt goodbye if you live anywhere in the region.

look at chernobyl - they have videos showing workers sealing the place up and every one of them is now worm food.

god bless us all  if there's ever an accident or attack there.

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You are very misinformed about nuclear power. What happened at Chernobyl could not happen here in the United States because that type of plant does not exist here. It is against the laws of physics for that type of emergency here at Indian Point. Chernobyl had no form of containment building to prevent a release very different from nuclear plants in the United States.

all of westchester and rockland (and putnam, fairfield and nyc for that matter) is toast anyway if something happens there, not to mention what would happen to the first responders. it's a classic case of tuck you head between your legs and kiss your butt goodbye if you live anywhere in the region.

look at chernobyl - they have videos showing workers sealing the place up and every one of them is now worm food.

god bless us all if there's ever an accident or attack there.

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