Monty

MVF is a new one by me can you give me an "F"?

Just guessing - but maybe Fire??

I hadn't noticed this before. Now that I have, I'm not happy. Maybe things got a bit out of hand on the scene, maybe people were having a bad day, maybe the cop made a bad call. It happens.

But this is different. This has now gone way up the chain of command, and State Police have evidently decided to make an example of this Chief. Not good. Not going to help anyone.

My first thoughts were the same. But I've also seen on the 'net multiple different versions of the story - some including that it was after patient treatment had concluded, and the vehicle was hooked up to a tow truck. I'm sure all involved will be using radio time stamps, dash cams (if available) etc.

It will be interesting to see how it plays out ....

The meeting tonight was canceled, the city can't afford to have bobby in a meeting when he is needed to direct traffic.

and I thought you were joking .....

So, does this mean this drags on for another month with no change?

Interesting story I came across http://www.wivb.com/dpp/news/southern_tier/Fire-contract-deadline-looms-in-Arkwright

FORESTVILLE, N.Y. (WIVB) - Residents in Arkwright are nearing a deadline that could end fire service to half of their town.

If things don't change between now and the end of Friday, there will be no fire contract for half the town of Arkwright. Right now, the village of Forestville Volunteer Fire Department services 23-square miles of the town of Arkwright, a nearby rural community that has depended on the village for fire and emergency-related services for years.

Wonder who will blink first?

Some interesting things between the story and the comments ...

Forestville takes in more money from the surrounding townships than what the fire department has in their budget.

Interesting way to bolster village finances .....

Just an FYI : out of the 223 calls last year in the areas Forestville Fire protects, ONLY 80 were in the Village.

i was told two Chautauqua County Emergency services officials have said No Fire or Ems companies can or will be dispatched after the Friday night deadline into the area of Arkwright that is currently covered by Forestville Fire Dept.

I wonder what other options the Town has from adjoining districts to enter in to a contract? Perhaps the town should create their own fire (protection) district.

Reminds me of the posting here last year about the place in Putnam or Westchester where there was no fire district and no mutual aid because there was no Department to give it to! I also wonder what happens to the homeowners insurance?

Seems a bit like the situation last year where the fire service didn't respond because the homeowner hadn't paid their optional fire protection fee ....

The department I was with in Albany county had two stations, one built in the early 90's and the other was remodeled prior to that. Both had bunk rooms with fold up beds. The rooms doubled as training / meeting rooms. About 13 years ago the department started an optional overnight duty crew program (counts to the departments requirements for active membership) to supplement staffing. With that foresight, the crew could bunk at either (or both) stations.

As others have said - a small investment up front that can have a massive payback down the road.

This is absolutely true but what this letter fails to mention is that anyone that will pay this "additional levy" (fire tax) will also see a corresponding reduction in their property taxes. In other words if I pay $5500 annually in taxes now, once this goes into effect I will still pay $5500 overall in taxes but it will be split based on the pre determined mil rate calculation of the cost of fire protection. i.e. $5000 in property taxes and $500 in fire tax. So yes there will be a new tax but not a tax increase.

I've seen this elsewhere, however I don't believe it is the whole truth. One thing is that the Fire Department budget will be short these taxes. You could argue that it won't need to staff the apparatus in North Stamford, so it's budget should be less - but even if that were true does that match the lack of revenue? Unlikely, so, that lack of revenue needs to be made up by other residents - and they get a tax increase.

The response I've seen to that is that why should North Stamford residents pay for services they don't use, or for duplicate services. Well, I would say looking at the Christmas fire, they do use the services of SFRD.

Lastly, regarding the Christmas fire, the Mayor was quoted as saying that under the plan they would still use mutual aid. Ok. However mutual aid is usually giving and receiving. How often do the Big 5 give mutual aid to SFRD? I see this as being a very one sided mutual aid pact and so then the South Stamford residents would be paying to send SFRD members to the North .....

Providing members the basic Confined Space & Awareness Safety program is almost impossible in Westchester County. How often have you even seen this course offered at WCDES? NOT NEARLY ENOUGH!

/Rant

I'm pretty sure that there is no stipulation that this training has to be done by OFPC or any other particular entity. There are private organizations that will do it. there's probably something somewhere that states the qualifications needed to train but I'm sure someone that is a career educator, Fire Instructor 1 or better trained can complete the OSHA training.

Of course, you wont get any state certificates - but that's not what this is about.

In fact OFPC used to have a train the trainer class for annual Hazmat Ops refresher training - I know because I took it many years ago ....

This part of the story is very critical of TFD. I dont see how in this day and age you dont have a respiratory protection program?

I've no doubt that many departments believe they have a program in place, FIT Testing, medical, 15 minute explanation of how to operate, change a bottle etc - but there is more to it than that as Jack mentions.

I do respectfully disagree. Who decides which regulations are important enough to comply with and which can be ignored? It appears that in this case a few rather important regulations were ignored and over a substantial period of time. This isn't a new rule that just came out that departments haven't caught up to yet. These are long-standing policies - for our safety - that have been ignored.

If an agency was starting from scratch I'd agree that you have to start somewhere and adopt an implementation schedule so you'd ultimately be in compliance but it seems that the emergency services (police, fire, and EMS) and allied agencies (DPW, etc.) that have been around for decades and in some cases centuries just don't bother even trying to comply.

You're right about the regulations being CYA. They're designed to protect us but time and time again we resist them as being too burdensome or expensive or the training isn't interesting enough and people blow it off. If somebody is not interested in protecting their own rear end maybe they should reconsider whether or not they can protect someone elses.

Well, first of all in this case it seems the Village leadership decided, as Captain Bnechis says. I do think that this is one of the higher priorities - personally I was thinking that maybe some of the NFPA standards should be lower down the list.

Ideally, you should be able to meet all the requirements / standards, or be able to explain why not - but as mentioned, there is a tremendous reluctance to change. And not just in the fire service.

Date: 12/17/10

Time: 20:10 (approx)

Location: 3 Dows Lane, Irvington Google Maps

Frequency: Fire 14, Fireground 1 (453.0375)

Units Operating: Irvington, Dobbs Ferry, Elmsford FAST - 2092, 2093, E47, TL23

Weather Conditions: Cold and dry

Description Of Incident: 3 Story single family home. Fire in the first

Reporters: monty

Writer: monty

20:11 1 + 1 from Dobs Ferry, Elmsford FAST

20:12 Batt14 to 60 Control Reports 3 Story Single Family house with fire in the first floors, checking for extension in walls and second floor.

20:16 TL 23 responding

20:19 E47 On scene

20:29 Batt 14 reports no extension, Elmsford FAST to respond with caution.

20:30 Request C&O to the scene

20:44 Dobbs Ferry Engine and ladder released with thanks.

20:55 Releasing Elmsford Ladder (FAST)

Many many FD's in Westchester have very little regard for OSHA regulations. This year I can think of over 35 violations issued in Westchester (and thats just 3 depts). How many depts. respond to "fire calls" with fewer than 6 firefighters (at least 4 being interior)? I can think of about 20% of Westchester FD's (I know there are many more from reading the IA's) that violate the respiratory protection program by lack of manpower on at least a portion of there calls.

And the wrath from PESH is not strong enough to convince depts to change thier ways. I hope that the litigation that is coming will hurt enough to convince many depts that they need to follow the rules. Its sad to think that firefighters and officers don't fight for this because its the right thing to do and it will protect us.

Deputy Chief Billy Goldfeder has a great line, he asks: "WHO IS IN YOUR WALLET"? If you do not care for the people whos photos you carry in your wallet then dont follow the rules, they are there so that at the end of the day you go home to them.

I do think there are many people that could benefit from reading this report. A lot of the regulations are CYA - however if having a training program on the proper use of respiratory protection saves one person then it is worth it. Of course it's very difficult to prove that you saved someone because you had proper training on having the SCBA secured properly to your self ...

I'm sure that there are some that would disagree but I think there are some regulations that are more important to follow than others. Not to say that others should be disregarded but concentrate on the most important ones first. PESH is liking adding insult to injury - they really only seem to come in to the picture once something bad has happened.

The initial proposed plan is to bill each vehicle and let the vehicle owners sort out responsibility. This isn't original to NYC, so good luck moving away from it.

What I love about this, is there's no mention of residents or commuters being exempt. I mention commuters because NYC is unique in that everyone who commutes into the city to work pays a non-resident tax. Allegedly this tax is to pay for all the city services and infrastructure we may potentially use. The abuse of the working class continues!

PS There are Police Departments that are charging for services too.

The income tax for commuters was removed several years ago.

Now of course, all of us in Westchester, Rockland (and other counties I think) pay taxes for MTA .. but that's another story.

From the Board of Reps Website -

http://boardofreps.org/committees/publicsafety/2010/items/ps28011/ps28011_plan_101201.pdf

Interesting - seemingly one sided perspective.

Quite a mess.

Not sure what the 'Brown Plan' is but it's interesting that there is nothing else in the section about other proposals made to the Task Force. I thought Cogs had presented a plan? - and of course there's been no input requested or allowed from the SFRD leadership or Local 786.

It seems that 3 (Springdale, Belltown, Glenbrook) of the agreements could be terminated by the City unilaterally.

Also, the city charter section says that the BOR can redistrict through an ordinance by 2/3rds majority. So, for the 3 departments, they could have their management contracts terminated, and 3 months later have their fire districts reorganized so it only includes their property

It's interesting that it is a 'fallacy' that there is a new fire tax. Maybe not for the residents in that part of the city. How about those int the A/B/PP who see their 'Mill Rate' increased by about 30%? I don't know what that means but I'm sure it means that those residents pay more. I know there is an argument that says these residents have been paying for services they haven't received - maybe they've been paying more than their fair share? Possibly? But someone has to fund the volunteer departments don't they? As mentioned elsewhere, aren't there SFRD crews stationed in those areas - and certainly available to respond.

It will be interesting to see what the full BOR does with it and whether there are questions raised - or whether the 'recommendations' are accepted as is.

In this case, I'm not sure how involved the residents are in this discussion - however it's interesting to see how residents could terminate the district. It seems that as few as 200 voters (or 10% if less than 200) can cause a referendum to be called on terminating a district and with a 2/3 majority cause the district to be terminated. Now, what happens after that I don't know ....

It seems the CT general statues cover this topic already.

Sec. 7-329. Termination of district. Whenever the officers of such district vote to terminate its corporate existence and whenever a petition signed by ten per cent of the total number of persons qualified to vote in the meeting of such district or twenty of the voters of such district, whichever is less, applying for a special meeting to vote on the termination of the district is received by the clerk, the clerk shall call a special meeting of the voters residing within such district, the notice of which shall be signed by the officers thereof, by advertising the same in the same manner as is provided in section 7-325. Not later than twenty-four hours before any such meeting, two hundred or more voters or ten per cent of the total number of voters, whichever is less, may petition the clerk of the district, in writing, that a referendum on the question of whether the district should be terminated be held in the manner provided in section 7-327. If, at such meeting, a two-thirds majority of the voters present vote to terminate the corporate existence of the district, or, if a referendum is held, two-thirds of the voters casting votes in such referendum vote to terminate the corporate existence of the district, the officers shall proceed to terminate the affairs of such district. The district shall pay all outstanding indebtedness and turn over the balance of the assets of such district to the town in which the district is located, if the legislative body of the town authorizes such action. No district shall be terminated under this section until all of its outstanding indebtedness is paid unless the legislative body of the town in which the district is located agrees in writing to assume such indebtedness. On completion of the duties of the officers of such district, the clerk shall cause a certificate of the vote of such meeting to be recorded in the land records of the town in which the district is located and the clerk shall notify the Secretary of the Office of Policy and Management.

Actually, you could probably do lots of retro fitting cheaply - now I don't know what it does to NFPA standards, warranties etc - but buy a bunch of cheap lights from ebay - put them in compartments, on ladders ....

It's B.S...............What do the city residents pay their taxes for...........and when does the "Taxing" end?????????????? Bloomberg should never have been allowed to buy his 3rd term..............

Interestingly, I wonder how many MVC's involve residents? I bet there's a very good proportion of them that do not pay city taxes.

Not that I'm necessarily advocating this approach though. I'm sure most of these non-residents do pump some money in to the local economy through sales tax though.

I vaguely remember something from some SEMO or NIMS training that Nuclear facilities are the only (or maybe one of very few) facilities that are exempt from local jurisdiction control. Maybe defense facilities as well? Would they let in a lcoal FD to a secure area?

I understand the questions being asked. Maybe someone with more information can clarify?

Also, Indian Point is different from the VA, different from Metro North and different again from a public company like GE. I'm sure each has their own set of rules .....

Here's a quote from our local gem of a newpaper from May 2010 to show that even 2 years later there has been NO reduction in overtime even now.

Stamford fire, police chiefs say more overtime costs likely

Magdalene Perez, Staff Writer

Published: 09:59 p.m., Tuesday, May 25, 2010

STAMFORD -- After months of seeing overtime funding requests cut by the Board of Finance, the city's public safety leaders said another round is likely before the end of the fiscal year.

Both the police and fire departments have surpassed their overtime budgets, and have come begging for additional funding on a monthly basis since March. Each time, the city's fiscal board reduced their requests by six-figure sums.

So it would seem we were sold a bill of goods to justify the merger which began this debacle as evidenced by the FACT that we have seen NO savings even though the manpower aspect of the merger plan has been in place since 2008. And no matter how you slice it that little tidbit speaks for itself.

No matter what there WILL BE a change and to be sure everyone will be unhappy with at least some part of it. That being the case and if in fact public safety is our true goal then it is high time we move on and MAKE IT WORK.

_____________

Peter Cogliano

Firefighter

Belltown FD / Camp Leatherneck FD, Afghanistan

While I am not as knowledgeable on this topic as others here, my understanding is that a lot of this overtime is driven by staffing levels in the contract. I heard that SFRD was about 16 members short when the FF test was first announced earlier this year. I believe it is now about 20 under strength. As such overtimeis used to fill those minimum staffing levels.

Personally I suspect the Mayor is barring any hiring so that if the PLAN goes through, those 40 or so SFRD FF's that would be impacted by the new plan would fill those spots. Maybe if it really turns out that this plan is less likely to go through, then the city can hire to fill those spots and in turn reduce the overtime costs.

Date: 11/10/10

Time: 21:00

Location: 238 Saw Mill River Rd, Elmsford here?

Frequency: Fire 14, fireground 2

Units Operating: Numerous, including .... Elmsford 2111, 2112, 2113, Engine 237, Engine 137, TL-21. L-55, U-86, 58-B1, Fairview E174 and U7,

, E192, Valhalla FAST R9, Batt 14, Ardsley EMS, 2123, 2193, Hawthorne TL-12, Irvington L36, 2202, 2203, U-7 Fairview, Greenburgh Cascade U-446

Weather Conditions: Cold

Description Of Incident: Working fire

Reporters: monty

Writer: monty, efdny2003

21:06 Irvington Ladder and Hartsdale to standby

21:09 Command reports 50x50 brick building, heavy fire 1st floor rear. All units working

21:11 Confirming Con Ed notified.

21:13 TL 12 responding

21:19 2 story brick building, 50 x 50. 2 lines in operation, main body of fire knocked down, Coned on Scene

21:23 Batt 14 reporting search in progress. Gas shut down, Coned working on shutting off electricity.

21:24 60 control to B14 - Ardsley EMS on location

21:25 L36 on location at Elmsford FD

21:27 requesting C&O to the scene

21:36 U-446 responding to scene

21:40 Batt 14 - checking for extension to basement and 2nd floor. fire mostly held to first floor.

22:08 Releasing Valhalla and Fairview units.

Not too well publicized but November 8th, 19:30 the County Board of Legislators is holding a public hearing on the consolidation plans.

http://meetings.westchesterlegislators.com/Citizens/Detail_LegiFile.aspx?Frame=&ID=3365&CssClass=

A Resolution to set a Public Hearing on "A LOCAL LAW amending the Laws of Westchester County to abolish the Department of Emergency Services as a separate division and transfer its functions, powers and duties to the Department of Public Safety." [Public Hearing set for November 8, 2010 at 7:30 p.m.; Local Law Intro 23-2010]

Just seen this story on the Times Union:

ALBANY -- A Rensselaer contractor who police said was illegally in the Central Warehouse removing piping has been charged with burglary and other counts in connection with last weekend's fire at the gigantic structure.

I heard that AFD were still there yesterday. I also heard that they estimate over 2.5 million gallons of water was flowed.

Date: 10/22/10

Time: Approx 16:00

Location: City of Albany

Frequency: http://www.radiorefe...n=cwp&ctid=1825

Units Operating: Albany - all hands, Cohoes M/A, Waterviliet to scene, Troy to scene

Weather Conditions: Wind from the West, partly cloudy, @40 degrees

Description Of Incident: Working fire 12 story warehouse

Reporters/Writer: monty, pasobuff

Called in via portable radio to Albany FD of smoke from the roof and window of the old Central Storage facility (reporter didn't know exact name - if you've been there - can't miss it!).....visible from I787....Batt 7 (or 8) first on scene transmitting a box alarm for a working fire. At approx 1650hrs heavy smoke from the roof, fire visible from South/West corner window and roof.

Defensive attack from the start - no FF's in the building. Collapse zone set up. Extension to RR bridge/track on South side of building - train traffic requested to be stopped. Issues with water pressure at scene, approx 1650 hours Albany Water Dept looking for separate main to feed apparatus off of.

Yes - this warehouse if very reminiscent of the Mass. fire......first 5 floors or so have/had windows - above that is almost solid block with small mostly blocked up windows. Very hard to fight - AFD is expecting to be on scene an extended period.

AFD checking into access via roadway next to railroad tracks on south side to get better access to visible flames 12th floor window.

18:45 Car 1 to South Sector check rail road bridge for extension to sleeper

18:45 Dispatch to Portable 1 2:45 since original alarm

Fire showing from floors 7, 8 and 9.

Several ladder pipes in use.

This building reminds me of the warehouse in Worcester ..... very difficult job ahead of AFD.

http://www.fox23news...oPg.cspx?rss=39

Update

Seems like AFD took a break in operations overnight. Listening to the Radio Reference scanner, they have been on scene for 2 hours 45 minutes as of 7:45am with fire out the windows on multiple floors.

Taken On Fri. 10/8/10 prior to Pump Test while Mohegan was at KME

[attachment=18078:100_1898.jpg

It will be interesting to see it with the other rigs, the paint job looks great - but it looks BIG!!!

Anyway, I have to say Croton EMS from the beginning has been a quality agency and this is probably just a bump in the road. Due to increased call volume, training etc. it maybe time to experiment and obtain idea's from other agencies that had or have a problem and work it out. Several volunteer EMS agencies have been proactive and decided to put career staff on the rigs (Peekskill, OVAC, Harrison, Somers) and it has had a dramatic difference in the level and quality of care. Believe me I'm not taking anything away from Volunteers as I'm a proud one as well, but something needs to be done to ensure timely patient care. In EMS, minutes could be the deciding factor in the ultimate definitive result of the emergency. As in life or death.

These things don't come for free though. Ossining just instituted an 'ambulance district' tax - or something similar to help with funding OVAC (should that be OAC? ).

Another increase to the taxes we pay .... although I didn't hear much noise about this one though.

With that being said... I can't say that I agree with the residency requirements, even for hiring purposes. I would rather see a non resident hired with a score of 100 rather than a yonkers resident with a score of 70 and believe me there is a difference in recruits between someone gets 100 and someone who gets a 70.

Like one of the above posters said, You can't live in CT which would allow you to be into work in 45 minutes but you can live on the east end of long island which would make it 2 plus hours to get in, it just doesn't make sense but then again in this crazy state, what does ?

Many Connecticut departments don't have residency requirements. You may get preference, a couple of points if you happen to be a resident. Some departments do have a limitation such as 30 road miles - bit of a problem if you live in LI!

Another area where Connecticut seems to be much more civilized

As per NYS Public Officers Law, firefighters are not considered public officers and therefore do not have to live within the state (unless mandated by their department)The law states that police officers must live in the county they work in or any contiguous county (county that touches) of the county they work in. This law was written in the 1800's to address emergency mobilizations (when everyone rode horses). Each municipality must apply to the state for an exemption to the rule allowing their officers to live further away. The law itself takes up about 1/2 a page. There are approx 52 pages of exemptions.

Why doesn't that surprise me Wouldn't it make more sense to just repeal the law and remove those 53 pages?