FirNaTine

Once again "quantity" over "quality"! It amazes me how our Military has higher Standards then the Fire Service. Can you imagine if the Navy Seals lowered their Standards.

How about hiring the best candidate for the Job and promoting those that deserve it regardless of residence.It amazes me how you can be a felon without a HS Diploma to get on that Job but they want you to be a scholar once your there. What a disgrace to the Profession especially to those dedicated members. A whole new can of worms is goin to be opened and the Administration is just to blind or stupid to realize it.

Too the "Brothers" who have posted above about the "Brotherhood" not being lost, I have to respectfully disagree. I've also been in the F.S. for quite some time along with many of my commrades in neighboring Depts., some of whom work in the Depts you retired from and we all agree on one thing, the 'Brotherhood" tradition of the Job is gone. It's amazing how many retirees I talk to and when i ask them why they retired so early they all give me the same answer, " the Job just isn't what it use to be and I no longer have fun and enjoy goin to work anymore. The new breed of ff is a know it all and a****** who doesn't give a rats a** about their profession or their colleagues." Christ you can't even get guys to go out for "choir practice" anymore. As soon as their reliefs cross the threshold they're gone till their next shift. They may talk the talk in the kitchen but don't walk the walk. Yes there are a few new members who show initiative but they are far and few between. Did i work with some jackasses when i first went on yes, but they were the exception. Now the job is over run with them. If you guys didnt have this on your job then lucky you but i think many of us die hards just don't want to see it and accept it. It's time to get real.

No truer words have been spoken. I honestly believe the "Brotherhood" aspect of the Job is gone, partly because it isn't being passed on any more by the so called "senior men" but also many of the new generation just don't care. The Fire Service seems to have become just another job to many. There seem to be more guys these days just out for themselves and not for the good of all. Hell just take a look at how many guys attend a Union meeting these days. Many only want to be part of the "brotherhood" when something directly is goin to effect them. If they're fat, dumb and happy then nothing bothers them. There seems to be no more "pride" and "dedication" to the uniform that's worn. I've also noticed the disappearence of peer pressure and ball breakin on the junior men. Nobody can be embarassed anymore. God forbid we offend anyone we may be reported to the EEOC! Everybody just wants to be friends, due their tour and get out. It's ashame but true.

No truer words have been spoken. I honestly believe the "Brotherhood" aspect of the Job is gone, partly because it isn't being passed on any more by the so called "senior men" but also many of the new generation just don't care. The Fire Service seems to have become just another job to many. There seem to be more guys these days just out for themselves and not for the good of all. Hell just take a look at how many guys attend a Union meeting these days. Many only want to be part of the "brotherhood" when something directly is goin to effect them. If they're fat, dumb and happy then nothing bothers them. There seems to be no more "pride" and "dedication" to the uniform that's worn. I've also noticed the disappearence of peer pressure and ball breakin on the junior men. Nobody can be embarassed anymore. God forbid we offend anyone we may be reported to the EEOC! Everybody just wants to be friends, due their tour and get out. It's ashame but true.

Many factors depend on whether your Dept. is set up for a "reverse lay", "forward lay" or both. Personally I would like to establish a water supply as fast as possible no matter what especially if the other units are 3 minutes away. Too me operating off the booster and waiting for the 2nd due engine to get u water is playing russian roulette. I'd have the mpo drop his tank prior to hookin up and charge a 2 1/2" line giving me the 500 gallons or more to hit the main body of fire. I would have also had one member stretch an 1 3/4" to the front door and told the mpo to charge it when hooked up to his hydrant. This line could then be used later on by other arriving members or by the same members if conditions warranted it. As far as the primary is concerned it all depends on interior conditions. It may only be possible to search just inside the doorway if flashover is imminent and that's usually only 5' max like the Chief above said. This is no place for an 1 3/4" line off the bat. You have alot of fire here which is most likely in the cockloft requiring more then 150-180 gpm if u ask me. This is where a smooth bore comes into play. Having a smooth bore on the line gives you better reach, penetrating power(blasting the overhead ceiling away extinguishing concealed fire in cockloft) and more importantly maneuverability to hit the fire in the garage whether done from the exterior or inside. A 2 1/2" line is alot more easy to operate at 50 psi nozzle pressure then with a fog nozzle requiring 100 psi. Preferably I'd stay outside why waist time looking for the interior garage door and what are u goin to do if it's locked? Did one member bring the irons in with him? What if the door is 25' in and then down to the left another 10-15 feet. Even if you do find it and get it open how much fire are u goin to extinguish from that point. Too many things that could go wrong by stretching inside if you ask me. Hit it from the exterior and hit the interior wall separating the garage from the living quarters from the side. I seriously doubt u will push it into the rest of the house. I'd also have the nozzleman sweep the soffits on the exterior and try and drive the stream into the cockloft area that way extinguishing some of the fire. When reinforcements arrive I'd have them take the 1 3/4" thru the front door if not done already by the original crew. Basically I'd probably handle this almost as if it were a taxpayer job seeing it's a one story residence. With regards to pulling ceilings where would most of you start to pull them, once inside the front door or go aways in and pull them from deep inside the structure working your way towards the front entrance? Personnally, I'd start right at the front door and work my way in. JMO

Many factors depend on whether your Dept. is set up for a "reverse lay", "forward lay" or both. Personally I would like to establish a water supply as fast as possible no matter what especially if the other units are 3 minutes away. Too me operating off the booster and waiting for the 2nd due engine to get u water is playing russian roulette. I'd have the mpo drop his tank prior to hookin up and charge a 2 1/2" line giving me the 500 gallons or more to hit the main body of fire. I would have also had one member stretch an 1 3/4" to the front door and told the mpo to charge it when hooked up to his hydrant. This line could then be used later on by other arriving members or by the same members if conditions warranted it. As far as the primary is concerned it all depends on interior conditions. It may only be possible to search just inside the doorway if flashover is imminent and that's usually only 5' max like the Chief above said. This is no place for an 1 3/4" line off the bat. You have alot of fire here which is most likely in the cockloft requiring more then 150-180 gpm if u ask me. This is where a smooth bore comes into play. Having a smooth bore on the line gives you better reach, penetrating power(blasting the overhead ceiling away extinguishing concealed fire in cockloft) and more importantly maneuverability to hit the fire in the garage whether done from the exterior or inside. A 2 1/2" line is alot more easy to operate at 50 psi nozzle pressure then with a fog nozzle requiring 100 psi. Preferably I'd stay outside why waist time looking for the interior garage door and what are u goin to do if it's locked? Did one member bring the irons in with him? What if the door is 25' in and then down to the left another 10-15 feet. Even if you do find it and get it open how much fire are u goin to extinguish from that point. Too many things that could go wrong by stretching inside if you ask me. Hit it from the exterior and hit the interior wall separating the garage from the living quarters from the side. I seriously doubt u will push it into the rest of the house. I'd also have the nozzleman sweep the soffits on the exterior and try and drive the stream into the cockloft area that way extinguishing some of the fire. When reinforcements arrive I'd have them take the 1 3/4" thru the front door if not done already by the original crew. Basically I'd probably handle this almost as if it were a taxpayer job seeing it's a one story residence. With regards to pulling ceilings where would most of you start to pull them, once inside the front door or go aways in and pull them from deep inside the structure working your way towards the front entrance? Personnally, I'd start right at the front door and work my way in. JMO

If this is true maybe the "out of towners" should all get together and file a lawsuit. It would be just one of many against that City. I.M.O. it shouldn't matter where one lives, the best qualified candidate should be hired. We're talkin about peoples lives and property here so why not hire the best person for the Job regardless of where one lives. Does one's residency make them a better firefighter? Don't think so! I've seen it first hand on my Job in fact there's more "out of towners" who show more of an interest in their Job then longtime residents. Just take a look at FDNY, one of, if not the greatest FD's in the World and where do a majority of their members live. Municipalities should be looking for "quality" not "quantity" and 'quotas" to fill their ranks, otherwise everyone is goin to get hurt in the long run especially those we protect and pay our salaries.

Whats always amazed me is how many Career FFs will argue all the advantages of having Career FFs around the clock to respond to the various Emergency Incidents that may arise within the municipality they work, but when it comes to the municipality they live in, they have no problem Volunteering. Why not bring forth and argue your points which to me are valid, with your Town/Village/City Officials at the next Public Meeting and try and convince them to start hiring Career members so you and your family and your neighbors will have this "quality protection" you so desire for those you protect abroad. If not, your a Hypocrite in my eyes and probably dont push for Career Staffing in your hometown cause of the same reasons other residents of municipalities dont and that is higher taxes and who wants that especially if the FD only responds to a handful of calls a year.

Whats always amazed me is how many Career FFs will argue all the advantages of having Career FFs around the clock to respond to the various Emergency Incidents that may arise within the municipality they work, but when it comes to the municipality they live in, they have no problem Volunteering. Why not bring forth and argue your points which to me are valid, with your Town/Village/City Officials at the next Public Meeting and try and convince them to start hiring Career members so you and your family and your neighbors will have this "quality protection" you so desire for those you protect abroad. If not, your a Hypocrite in my eyes and probably dont push for Career Staffing in your hometown cause of the same reasons other residents of municipalities dont and that is higher taxes and who wants that especially if the FD only responds to a handful of calls a year.

I hear ya Bro! Ya gotta look at the individual though and take it case by case. The guy with the highest score isn't always going to get the position even if it's well deserved. He may be skipped over to get to another senior candidate who's got more juice then he does and that's the only reason they got promoted and not on merit. It may be rare but I've seen guys with only 5 yrs on the Job in a busy Dept. who have a better grasp of the Job then someone with 20 yrs. It all depends on the individual.

It's bad enough an Officer may have to be a prick and a hard nose towards guys that know the Job. Now throw into the mix incompetent individuals that have been hired due to the Standards being lowered and you have a whole different issue on your hands. It's called "Constant Supervision" or "Babysitting" for the most part. The caliber of people hired today is just not the same as it was 50-60 yrs. ago. The days of the Fire Service being a semi-military organization are long gone at least in these neck of the woods.