mstrang1

In addition to what others have said about promotional exams, etc., college prepares you for a second career, either concurrent or post fd/pd career. What happens if, God forbid, 4 years into your career you must retire on a disability? Sit around all day? Or be prepared to find another job? I just heard on the radio yesterday that prospective employers do not want people that are not currently employed, no matter the experience. So employers are not hiring people with experience in the field already, how would you fare in the job market? A degree is something at least.

If you do 20 years as a cop and got hired at 22, that means you are retired at 42. What will you do the rest of your life, live off of a pension? Doubt it...

Whether you have a degree in fire science or criminal justice or basket weaving, the degree is most certainly worth more than the paper it is printed on. I get paid a (slightly) higher rate with the FD, due to having a bachelors degree. I imagine other jobs have similar wage scales. As much as I thought college was a waste of time while I was there, the further away from it I get, the more I realize how important it was. Not just from a communication and time management perspective, but from a general knowledge standpoint. While in college, I was required to take public speaking, philosophy, sociology, psychology, history and literature classes. All of these classes help create (hopefully) a well rounded individual. From job interviews to everyday work activities, these core skills come in handy.

They can happen to anyone, but shouldn't. I threw those speeds in there to try and sneak one by you. You seem to be very reactionary in this post. Just wanted to see if you were reading or just being defensive. Nobody should be driving that fast, especially in a tower ladder. Take it from me, getting in an accident in an engine sucks. I know this personally. Although there were thankfully no injuries, the woman who stopped short in front of me was pregnant and transported to the hospital for observation. Luckily, no one was in the crosswalk where the pathfinder she was driving ended up. Luckily my officer and crew had seat belts on and did not land on the pathfinder. Someone older and wiser told me afterwards, there are two kinds of drivers, ones that have had an accident, and ones that haven't had one YET. I just got mine out of the way early in my career. I drive carefully all the time, stop at all negative intersections no matter time of day, etc. I have actually had officers tell me to speed up. I refuse every time. If you have not done this yet, and I suggest this to every emergency vehicle operator, read every fatal fire apparatus (or ambulance/police cruiser) report you can find. Learn from other peoples death. Speed, inexperience, and bad weather are the three most common causes of fatal accidents. Take your time learning the job of the back step properly before getting in the front. Just because you drive more at 3am than a more experienced driver, only means you don't have to take a leak before you go on that call, or you live closer, or don't have to crack your back three times before taking a few steps toward the door. If you take the time to put on your turnout gear, another (more experienced) driver should arrive. If they don't, there are bigger problems ahead...

Melillo- Have you been on I95 or 287 doing 70mph in the tower ladder and have to swerve or slam on the brakes? Do you know how far you will go before you stop? Have you been driving up King street at 50mph and have a deer jump in front of you? Have you had to do either of these things in a car?

While there are many jokes to be made about this threat, there are many serious issues at work here.

1) It was stated in the article that plywood was on the windows, painted to look like curtains. This presents many complications including venting, egress, sizeup, etc.

2) Delays in getting water on the fire. It was not stated in this article, but I am sure the locks/doors were fortified heavily.

3) Entanglement issues. It was noted that there was a vast electrical system for the lights, etc. I am sure this was not installed by a licensed electrician, nor inspected by the BI. This could cause entanglement issues in the wires, plus electrical shock and the very hot bulbs could cause burns.

4) Traps/snares. People that make/grow drugs often booby-trap the houses where this is done as a form of security. Also, dogs and other animals are used for this purpose.

5) Preservation of evidence. Obviously this fire became a crime scene and Police officers do not like their crime scene upset too much (with good reason..). Making sure to document where things were, what order they were in, etc is crucial to a criminal investigation.

6) Know your buildings. Obviously this is an extreme example that no one most likely knew about beforehand, but take your time and look at the buildings around. At a wires down call, look (from the street) at the houses in the neighborhood. Look for multiple mailboxes, meters, heavy locks, etc. This stuff sinks in beforehand, and when the brown stuff hits the fan, we may have a slight lead.

We still have the old truck 2 to use as a reserve truck company. It is labelled as Truck 4, and is a 75' Sutphen Midmount. The old tower, designated as Truck 5, was to be used as a spare for the current tower ladder. So if TL1 goes out of service, they get a midmount 75' stick with not a lot of compartment space.

Truck 45 could have been used at Deep Valley Trail fire, but, alas, the IC "did not want to wake up those guys at such a late hour".

Yes, Seth. It was . Stress the "was". Not like it's important to have a spare TL around...

While I agree a pump operator should have the knowledge to draft and do all of the other pump operations, it is a matter of facilities. Just arbitrarily looking at a map of Queens, Engine 286 (a random mainly landlocked engine co) does not look like it has a drafting source anywhere close to its first due area. I do not really know about the training and ability to go to the rock, but it seems like that a trip there would have to be made to practice drafting.

I was not calling into question the training or ability of any FDNY guys, I'm just saying that different people work in different environments, and have different priorities of training. I also understand that you have to train for what can happen, not what HAS happened. Since getting assigned to the sticks, I try to draft every few months, and I still am not streamlined in the process. Drafting is something that has to be done often to be proficient in, and not everyone has the resources to do this.

Izzy- Manhattan obviously is an island, but the problem is access to that water. The entire east side has the FDR and, for a large portion, a bike/running path with no vehicular access. The West side above 57th street is no better, except maybe the boat basin. Below 57th street, there are some areas where you can get close enough to get a draft, but good luck stretching across 6 lanes of the west side. The outer boroughs probably have better access, plus a few canals (ie. the Gowanus, if you're brave enough...). NYC is a very diverse area, ask a guy from midtown about handling brushfires in SI, or the guy from SI about high-rise tactics, and they would have no idea. I'm sure these guys learned years ago how to draft, but when do you think was the last time they had the need?

It seems to me that any aircraft down, whether it be a small or large frame aircraft has two outcomes for patients 1) Dead on impact; or 2) "walking wounded" or lighter injuries. It does not seem like there is too much heavy trauma involved oftentimes. Otherwise the hardest obstacles are accessing the site, dealing with the hazmat portion (esp if near waterways/reservoirs/watershed areas) and crowd/press control. Remember, there will most likely be a news chopper above your head, act appropriately. Additionally, you have to worry about what the plane hit (house, building, utility pole, etc).

Chiefs/Company officers should also keep in mind EAP or other similar programs for afterwards. In the case of the Armonk incident, I am sure more than a couple responders have a 16 year old daughter at home. We see dead bodies more often than we should, but some hit harder than others. Man up and talk to somebody about it if you need to.

What is the most common coming out of HPN?

What is the fuel load of the average Cessna type/size craft? If there is a leak, I assume it would warrant a hazmat response, just because of volume?

And now to actually add to the topic. The can is a very important tool, as was stated before. As a minimum, the can does make a good door chock. At its most, it can put out a lot of fire. Or a little fire. I have used the can many times for small waste basket fires, smoldering fires, etc. In Stamford, the can goes on every investigation, unless the call deserves another extinguisher. Usually a water can or two makes it in for every call, with good reason. What may start as a grease fire, electrical fire, etc, will usually start class A materials on fire. If, during the course of investigation you discover a fire, the can is there to keep things in check until the next engine company or your partner can start getting a line in position. If the can get help you shut a door, use short blasts high up to darken the fire enough to close the door.

If you are assigned to the floor above, the can is essential if a handline has not been put in position on your floor. Any embers coming up through void spaces in a balloon frame structure can be held in check this way. Obviously a handline is the best option, but the Can can get there faster and is more agile.

Did you just adapt Ecclesiastes to the fire service?

I am not sure why the name got starred out towards the end, but not when I mentioned his name in the beginning. The person that I am referring to is the second one mentioned at the onset.

Maybe Cogs or the anonymous sqd47bfd can answer this question, but before Mayor Malloy trashed the budgets of TOR, BFD and SFCo, how much of that budget was used/allocated for recruitment and retention of volunteers? Also, if either of you are privy to this information, how much was asked for and denied by the administration? ************** mentioned that the former Chief asked for an abatement and was stonewalled. Was this presentation packed up with solid proof of results? ************** also stated that there is no money for member perks. Was this asked for and denied, or just not asked for? Do volunteers pay dues? If so, is this money earmarked for anything?

Many chose to be quiet for many reasons. 1) there is little to be gained by arguing in this thread. 2) we work together routinely on the street and this may hurt relations. 3) no one will back down from their position because no position is truly wrong. Both methods of providing protection to stamford include a paid force staffing houses, they just go about it very differently.

For instance, a certain member earlier in this thread critized the volunteers for responding in a fly car to provide manpower when an apparatus driver was not available. More recently in this thread, the same member criticized the volunteers for NOT responding in a fly car and waiting for an apparatus driver.... You see what's going on? Arguments will change to suit the issue currently being debated and NO ONE WINS ON THE INTERNET!!!

That's not to say that it's a bad thing that Cogs and others are stating their point of view and engaging in intelligent debate... just know that he isn't the only supporter.

I believe you may be talking about me when you mention criticizing TOR for responding sometimes in the Suburban. First off, TOR members (most, not all, of them)are an asset to SFRD personnel. I never said any different, that I can remember. I work with the guys every day, just yesterday sharing meters and working very well together on a CO call. I also noted that there were 2 engine 9 calls and an engine 8 call earlier in the day with no TOR response. I think you are misinterpreting what I am saying about the responses. I do not criticize the guys for responding in the fly car. I criticize them for other things like picking and choosing calls, taking the fly car to this call but not to this one, etc. My guess is that this comes from the top down through SOGs of what machine goes to what call, etc. I understand. My argument never changed. I am just asking for consistency in response. We never know if we will get no response, a few guys in the fly car, or E62 and R66 with full crews and Chiefs and Marshal's and the whole gamut.

I would assume the same as they are already employed by one of the four partners.

Ahem... that is three partners.

Is the car cheaper than a trial?

We usually use 'Speedy Dry" or the Pads.

We put them all in a Garbage bag, and put it inside the car, or on the Bed of the tow truck. And the driver disposes of the materials properly.

I think the last sentence should read " And the driver is supposed to dispose of the materials properly".

Cogs said

"Well see here's another big problem for those who are short of memory. When the previous administration force fed it's plan to the VFDs and then withheld their operating budgets to attempt to force compliance any dissenting opinions of that abomination were silenced or dismissed out of hand....that is until a judge ruled. Why should dissenting voices be heard now when any dissention was inappropriate then? And for those who think the Brown plan is the answer remember that is a matter of opinion at this point, nothing more."

Cogs-

First off, I hear congratulations are in order, Captain Cogliano. Second, didn't your mother ever tell you two wrongs don't make a right? The wrongs of the old administration do not justify the wrongs of the new "administration".

Why couldn't the volunteers respond in the suburban? If they had turnout gear and scba with them, they could have been an asset at the scene. Just because they do not have E62 or R66 does not make them useless. If it was a fire, Engine 8 has several pre-connected lines, extra irons, hooks, etc. that may have been available for use by TOR members. TOR members respond in the SUV on medical calls and the like, what makes a fire call any different?

The sticking point was not the 8 miles, it was the law. State law says, basically, that the purchase must be an open, fair competitive bid. If you word the bid announcement in a way that only gets you 1 bid, that is not a fair bid. So the sticking is actually, they want to follow the laws of the state. How novel.

Talking to a coworker about this, he said they should have put in their bid/contract that the rig would be accepted upon it fitting in the building. A department that he was formerly associated with had this with every rig they purchased. He said it would only be accepted once it was in the building. You do not have to accept delivery of a rig right away. Stamford found that their new rescue from HME was leaking water right onto the electrical panel. It was noticed prior to being accepted and was fixed by the manufacturer (or dealer, I forget), at their expense. This involved it being driven back to the plant in Michigan(or somewhere in the midwest). The downside is SFRD got a rescue with 3 times the amount of miles on it that it should have had, but it was done "right".

On a second look, I noticed the white building has a pitched roof, which necessitated cutting the roof around the i beams. It probably was not protected properly in regards to water damage. I think the depressions that PFDRescue is noticing are these cutouts. Another viewpoint is that those beefier looking columns line up perfectly with the proper i beam locations. I wonder if the white building was built with this application in mind. Or those beefier looking columns could just be a pile of bricks against the cement block. Hard to tell without more photos from different angle.

Batt2- How did the rest of the property look?