Satellite Engines

[Guest]

Hello all, i was browsing FDNY pics this morning and i saw something i've seen before but something that i havent really understood ever, and thats the Satellite Engines that the fdny has. Could somebody just kind of give me an explination of the satellite engine? Thanks in advance

[IzzyEng4 427]

Just FYI, this needs to be posted under the Apparatus forum. Hopefully one of the admins would eb able to moveit over there for us.

To answer your question, a Sattellite in not an engine, it is a hose wagon that carries a total of 3000 feet of large diameter hose (dual beds of 1500 each for dual lays if needed), several 5 gallon buckets of foam and have a very high output "stinger" (rating of 1000 to 5250 depending on tip size and also how many pumpers are feeding it) and does not have a pump. It is also equipped with two smaller dek guns and has a high output manifol on a wheeled "hand-truck". There are six satellites and are currently paired up with a 2000 gpm pumper (Engines 9, 72, 159, 207, 284 and 324).

The Satellite units were first used with the old super pumper and the Maxi Water system that replaced it, if I remember correctly. The are totally different than the JFK airport hose wagon (Engine 308) and the Manifold Hose Wagon (Engine 329 in the Rockaways) whihc just carry hose.

I got most of my info from the FDNY operations guide. If anyone else has updated or better information on them please post.

[Guest]

The satallites took different hydrants to feed the super pumper system, no?

[CHIEFPHIL 90]

Could some one explain the capabilities and use of the JFK hosewagon and the manifold hose wagon. Is there a Laguardia hose wagon as well ?

[DCurtis 1]

I know that special high pressure hydrants were used to feed the system or water was drafted out of the river. For the super pumper system, The tender truck hooked the hydrants to the pumper it self and then from there the satallites would hook up to the pumper. Also the tender truck had a high capacity deck gun on it as well. the whole original point of the system was to be able to completely surround a structure with master streams. I think these special hydrants are supposed to be OSS, but I'm not entirely sure.

[gpdexplorer 46]

How often do the sat's go out and who mans them? I'm almost positive they only have a two man cab, so when its determined that a sat unit is needed, does manpower from the engine cover the sat or are there guys who job is specifically to man the sat?

Thanx

[27east 19]

Is there a Laguardia hose wagon as well ?

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Yes there is.

Edited October 25, 2006 by 23piraf

[HFD23 37]

How often do the sat's go out and who mans them? I'm almost positive they only have a two man cab, so when its determined that a sat unit is needed, does manpower from the engine cover the sat or are there guys who job is specifically to man the sat?

Thanx

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they roll on the 2nd alarm with the engine company that it is assigned so Eng 72 and Sat 2 respond together on 2nd alarms in the bronx. remember the Sat has no pump and E-72 having a 2000gpm pump will feed the Sat unit if necessary

Example from truck 4's IA on the queens 2nd alarm today- note E-324 with S-4 on the 2nd

"1st alarm assignment E-275, 303, 317, 302; L-133, 165, 155; R-4, Sq-270; B-54, B-50 (10-75)

2nd Alarm: E-298, 311, 308; L-126; E-324/S-4; B-51 (Safety), B-53 (RUL); Field Com 1, TAC #2, Rescue B/C, Safety B/C."

Edited October 25, 2006 by HFD23

[sr71 1]

whats the difference between the 2000 gpm engines and the high pressure engines?

[JBE 328]

OK, Here we go.

The Satellite Water System is the second step of evolution from the old Super Pumper System. The Super Pumper would set up at the nearest large diameter main and hook up, then feed the Super Tender or whatever needed to be fed at the time. It could also pump to the Satellites or tower ladders as needed.

The Maxi Water System was established when the Super Pumper was disbanded. There were 6 2000 GPM Pumpers and 6 Satellites. On the second, a Satellite would respond with its associated Engine and operate. Upon transmission of the third, E-207/Maxi Water would respond along with another Engine/Satellite. E-207 would advise where the hook up site would be(also a large diameter main nearby) and they would be Water Resource Officer.

In 1998, it became the Satellite Water System. Maxi Water became Satellite 6. A satellite responds to certain street boxes with long stretches,like the Brooklyn Navy Yard or the Manhattan Bridge, to 10-75's in Riverdale(had one today), to any All Hands in SI, any Foam Operation, and to any multiple alarm. They can also be requested by an IC. They are manned by the crew of the engine they are quartered with, and there are specific units that are trained to be the back up engine if the associated engine is unavailable. These Engines are only 1000 GPM, but that may change when the new Engines start being delivered.

The high pressure hydrants have been out of service for heaven knows how long. The Hosewagons for the airports are quartered with Engine 308(JFK) and Engine 316(LGA). They respond on the transmission of Queens Box 269 (JFK Crash Box) and 37(LGA Crash Box) The JFK Hosewagon is a modified Satellite, and the LGA Hosewagon is a converted pumper(I wanna say Ex- E-33). Hydrants are obviously few and far between over at the airports, so that's why we have them. I am not sure how they operate, but I presume and will check later, that they stretch to either an engine operating on the runways, or to help feed the PAPD crash rigs. I'll double check that and get back to you guys.

The Manifold Hosewagon, quartered with E-329 in the Rockaways is used in areas that 329 can't get into, like most of its first due area(lots of sand). It's a 4 wheel drive rig with a manifold and deck gun built into it. When there is a fire in 329's first due area, 329 hits the hydrant and stretches to the MHW and they operate off of that.

Most of the time the Satellite is used for the manifold it carries. They'll hook up a few handlines to it and operate off the manifold. The deck gun is used every so often, and can knock down a lot of fire, and walls, when it is used to its full capacity. I hope this answers some of your questions.

Edited October 26, 2006 by JBE

[gpdexplorer 46]

Thanx JBE, that was a lot of info. One more question though. What happens if say, E72 is sent out on the first alarm, would the next closest satellite be called for the 2nd alarm since the manpower of Sat 2 is already operating on the first alarm.

[JBE 328]

It's funny you should mention that, because I quizzed my crew on that today. E-97 is the back up for E-72. There are a number of boxes out there where 72 is either first or second due, and 97 is 4th due. In a situation like this, you assign the nearest available Satellite with its associated Engine. It will usually be 324/Satellite 4.

[gpdexplorer 46]

Thanks alot JBE you are most certainly a fountain of knowledge.

[dadbo46 50]

....and if you never saw the Super Pumper operate, you missed quite a site ! In the '70's, I started to believe that the Super Pumper was quartered with 82 Engine !!! LOL

[JBE 328]

I've seen video of it, and for lack of a better term, it's an awesome sight. Imagine having the power of a small fireboat on the street.

[tbendick 27]

whats the difference between the 2000 gpm engines and the high pressure engines?

Hi-Press Engines are 1000gpm pumpers but have three stages. They also use a larger engine something like a Cat-60 I think. They have 3" hose with painted white butts which can hold upto 700psi and pump upto the 110th floor.

2000gpm are all about moving lots of water..

[Guest]

i heard, and this might not be true, that if the IC gives an update of something along the lines of "doubtfull will hold," and the satilite is still enroute to the box that the satilite is returned. This is a rumor i have heard and i am not sure if it is correct so dont quote me. JBE or another member if you could help out here it would be greatly appreciated.

[JBE 328]

If the incident goes Probably Will Hold, the Satellite and its associated Engine are returned.

[Guest]

thanks for the info. little mix up of words my fault i wasnt thinking.

[CHIEFPHIL 90]

I've seen video of it, and for lack of a better term, it's an awesome sight. Imagine having the power of a small fireboat on the street.

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In the early 70's there wasa big job at CO-OP City, my dad drove us down there and right along I95 the Super Pumper was working. Even as we drove by the noise was impressive.

In '79 when the Port Chester post 700 had hosted the Boston Explorers for the weekend we spent the a day at E-207 when both the super pumper and super tender were still there. They were a mighty impressive unit close up. Had lunch with the Eng co. It was a good day. Spent a few hrs at the Brooklyn comm center also that day.

[Guest bibbles10504]

Does anyone have a picture of these trucks??

thanks

[gpdexplorer 46]

Sat 1 Manhattan - http://www.fdnytrucks.com/files/html/manhattan/e9.htm

Sat 2 Bronx - http://www.fdnytrucks.com/files/html/bronx/e72.htm

Sat 3 Brooklyn - http://www.fdnytrucks.com/files/html/brooklyn/e284.htm

Sat 4 Queens - http://www.fdnytrucks.com/files/html/queens/e324.htm

Sat 5 Staten Island - http://www.fdnytrucks.com/files/html/statenisland/e159.htm

Sat 6 Maxi Water Brooklyn - http://www.fdnytrucks.com/files/html/brooklyn/e207.htm

Edited October 26, 2006 by gpdexplorer

[JBE 328]

Super Pumper and Tender pix

However, some of the info this guy typed up is incorrect, so you can disregard most of it.

Edited October 29, 2006 by JBE

[Guest]

Does anyone have a picture of these trucks??

thanks

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I've got 2 good pictures of the old maxi-water unit working....

Also... heres a pic of the maxi water unit working a couple months ago (training)... it doesn't have the same gun on top but it still has a 2500 gpm monitor.

I also just realized that it's my avatar as well.

Edited November 18, 2006 by LongHillFD.com

[IzzyEng4 427]

If you want to see the Maxi-Water 207 what it looks like now, got to Long Hill FD's website www.longhillfd.com. They own and operate the truck out of their station 1 and it is Trumbull Satellite 203

[Guest]

If you want to see the Maxi-Water 207 what it looks like now, got to Long Hill FD's website www.longhillfd.com.  They own and operate the truck out of their station 1 and it is Trumbull Satellite 203

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Current Photo...

As Izzy said we operate it out of our station 1.

[Texanm 1]

Recent article--Bergen Record...maybe "Son of Super Pumper"?

12 INCH HOSE to supply!!

Super soaker makes its debut

Monday, November 20, 2006

By MATTHEW VAN DUSEN

STAFF WRITER

It's a fire engine for the terrifying events: an explosion at the sprawling Bayway Refinery in Elizabeth or a blaze at one of the many nearby oil tank farms.

On Sunday at the Oradell Reservoir, about 100 firefighters mainly from Bergen County fire departments watched as the multimillion-dollar Neptune Pumping System shot a thick rope of water about 500 feet into the distance.

"That's a nice stream," Morris Township fire Capt. Jason Merrick said as he flicked a knob on the "Ironman" foam delivery device -- basically, a giant water gun -- and focused the stream.

Take that, industrial blaze.

State Fire Marshal Lawrence Petrillo said he found that local departments didn't have the equipment to fight large industrial fires so he bought the pumping system and other gear with $3.2 million of grant money from the Department of Homeland Security. The systems can move 5,000 gallons a minute, compared with the 1,000- to 1,500-gallon-per-minute rate of standard fire engines, and can lift water from creeks or lakes 50 feet below the pump system, about three times the range of standard engines.

The system has two small pumps that submerge or sit in water and feed the main pump, which is housed in a trailer. The water flows out of the main pump at high pressure into the Ironman or smaller mounts.

The gear, which includes pickup trucks, is divided among departments in Bergen, Passaic, Essex, Hudson, Union and Morris counties, but only the latter two have the full pumping systems. The Morris County task force provided the gear for Sunday's demonstration.

It takes a while to get all the pieces in the same place and assemble them.

Not including travel time, it took at least one hour of setup that involved heavy moving equipment before the water started flowing. But Petrillo said fighting industrial fires requires planning, which takes time.

"When we're dealing with flammable liquids, it's not like a rush deal. It's not like a house fire," Petrillo said.

The system can also back up municipal water systems because its 12-inch hoses can carry potable water. It was no coincidence that Sunday's training event took place at United Water's Haworth Water Treatment Plant in front of company Emergency Preparedness Coordinator Scott Para.

The demonstration went smoothly until an aluminum coupling that secured one of the hoses to the pump burst off and water spilled over the parking lot.

"That's an example of why we have training," Petrillo said.

The system was up and running again minutes later. Firefighters stood with their digital cameras taking pictures of the device, probably hoping they never see a fire big enough to warrant its use.

E-mail: vandusen@northjersey.com