NY State Police to increase Troopers' Firepower

[Guest]

State police to increase troopers' firepower

By TERRY CORCORAN

THE JOURNAL NEWS

(Original publication: November 9, 2006)

New York state troopers will trade in their 9mm pistols for a more powerful Glock model 37, which fires a larger .45-caliber bullet, Superintendent Wayne E. Bennett announced today.

The change came after several shooting incidents this year involving troopers, including the murder of Trooper Andrew "A.J." Sperr in March in Chemung County.

Sgt. Kern Swaboda, a state police spokesman, said the change was recommended by a committee formed to evaluate the effectiveness of the 9mm.

Swaboda said research from the FBI showed that in most shooting incidents, regardless of how many rounds an officer may fire, only one or two shots hit the target in the torso. By increasing the size of the rounds troopers use, police are hoping to increase the likelihood of incapacitating the intended target, Swaboda said.

State police will purchase 5,400 guns under a $2.2 million contract and plan to have them in troopers' hands by the spring.

[Guest alsfirefighter]

More police agencies should be doing this. The heavier round has better stopping power with a single hit then the small 9mm round. Additionally, because it does not have as high of a velocity as the 9mm, its foot per second rate is lower, which can stop it from travelling as far or through objects as efficiently as the 9mm round does. I can tell you from my military experience, we hated the M9. I'm not a Beretta guy to begin with, but that round just plain sucks when you need to stop someone cold.

[RWC130 594]

Glock 45... OUCH!!!

Anyone remember the movie Johnny Dangerously?

"This here is an 88 Magnum, It shoots thru schools"

Good for New York State Police!

-NEW Vehicles

-NEW Lightbars

-NEW Guns

[210 91]

My department went to the Glock 37 last year. For the most part the officers are happy with them. In typical Glock fashion the weapon is light and the kick slight. Having been out to the range several times since receiving the Glock I have only had one jam which was quickly cleared. The rounds are expensive if you want to purchase more than your department allows for practice. Breaking the Glock down is sometimes more difficult then others. Overall I like the weapon.

[gpdexplorer 46]

Good for them! Anything to help the good guys get an edge on the bad guys!

[Guest]

I'd have to disagree here. The size of the round isn't the end all be all. A much more important factor is shot placement. You can hit a guy several times with a .45ACP or .40S&W but if you don't place your shots in vital areas he ain't going down right away. Now hit the same guy in the right spot with one round from a .22LR and game over.

Hence the reason that shooters are taught to aim center mass. Not only is it the biggest target on the human body but it yields access to all of the major organs raising the likelihood of a fatal hit.

Now combine a heavy man stopper like the .45ACP and sound marksmanship skills and you've got a good recipe to stop someone with minimal discharge of your weapon.

Good on the troopers. Always nice to see progressive departments that change with the times.

[PATROL224 0]

IN MY OPINION I THINK MEMBERS OF LAW ENFORCEMENT SHOULD HAVE EVERY ADVANTAGE POSSIBLE. THERE HAVE BEEN TOO MANY TIMES WHERE OFFICERS ARE FACED WITH CRIMINALS WHO HAVE MORE FIREPOWER. GOOD FOR THE STATE POLICE WITH THE UPGRADE. EVERY ADVANTAGE, REGARDLESS OF WHAT IT IS, HOPEFULLY WILL HELP US TO DO OUR JOB BETTER AND ENABLE EVERYONE TO GO HOME EVERYDAY.

[trauma74 111]

Years ago, the .45 Caliber was common among the Military and many law enforcement agencies. My cousin who was a USMC Firearms Instructor once told me that one (there are several) reason for doing away with the .45 for Military and Law Enforcement was due to the increasing number of females entering the Military and Law Enforcement. He said that the size of the gun coupled with the recoil was too much to handle for many females. This is by no means meant to be a slanderous statement toward women. I am just telling what I was told.

I have spoken to many police officers about the topic of calibers. Most cops said they did not like the 9mm. Yeah, it was great when the high capacity Glocks became availble, but they all found that the 9mm was not powerful enough. Many of these officers reluctantly gave up their .38 & .357 revolvers for these new 9mms. A few of them had tested the 10mm. They liked that a little better. When the .40 came out it they said it was a good "in bewteen" caliber. Look, being a firearms fanatic myself I fully understand shot placement. I know you can kill someone with a .22 if you hit them in the right spot. Unfortunately, not every cop is a good or great shot. You also have to factor in the fact of stress and the conditions you are shooting in.

The recent shootout in the City of Newburgh between officers and an armed multiple felon proves that you need a good powerful round to defend yourself. The Officer and Sgt that were being fire upon are both highly trained members of the CNPD SWAT Team. One of them is a Sniper on the team. Out of at least 6 rounds that were fired at the officers I believe that two rounds hit armed felon. The fatal shot was the one to the back of the head. This was not an intention head shot. It was a round that was aimed at center mass and ended up striking the head. The officers involved in this incident were using .40 caliber weapons. I know that a 9mm hitting someones head would also kill them, you have to remember that the head shot was basically luck. If the armed felon was not struck in the head and was instead struck "center mass" the outcome may been very different. In a shoot to kill situation I sure as hell would want a powerful large caliber round being fired from my gun. I applaud the decision of the NYSP to increase their firepower.

One another note about firepower.........Up until about 3-4 years ago the officers of my department carried their duty weapon (.40) and a backup weapon. The back up weapon was either a .38 or a mini version of their duty weapon. There were a few 12GA shotguns available that some officers carried, but that was it.

The formation of a SWAT Team in my department was never going to happen, but the Chief and the Firearms Instructors recognized the fact that our officers needed another form of a high powered weapon. Two AR15's were purchased for the department. All officers who are properly trained and who qualify on the AR may carry this with them during their tour. At least one AR is carried during any shift. Next year at least two more AR's will be purchased. With the firepower being used by criminals these days against the cops, the AR can be a very useful tool in a shootout.

I know this is a long post, but I have one more relevant situation to discuss. About 8 years ago on St. Paddy's Day I was dispatching at the Village of Monroe PD (Orange County, NY). Myself and two officers who were working monitored NYSP units responding to a shots fired call in the Village. I then took a 911 call for shots fired in the same area. My officers and NYSP responded to this residence and upon arrival were immediately fired upon by a male who was holding his son hostage inside the residence. The male was firing an unknown type of assault rifle at the officers.

A 10-13 was transmitted by my officers. One of these officers being a close personal friend of mine. I contacted multiple agencies for assistance and they responded from all over the County. My friend and an NYSP Sgt were pinned down behind a huge tree in front of the residence. They both knew that their .40 caliber duty weapons would be no match for the assault rifle being fired at them and they were too far away from the perp to even get an effective shot at him. Eventually the perp stopped shooting and negotiations were in progress.

When the perp finally surrendered and his house was searched 3 assault rifles and hundreds of rounds of ammo were found. Prior to this incident most of the assisting agencies did not have any type of high powered weapons. 90% of these agencies (exept Monroe PD) went out and at least purchased shotguns for their officers. A few armed their officers with some type of rifle (Mini 14 or AR).

The most messed up part of all this was that the Monroe PD had a handful of shotguns in the station, but because the Chief did not want his officers carrying shotguns for some reason these officers has nothing but their duty weapons.

A few years ago things finally changed and a Tactical Team was formed at the Monroe PD. Now, these officers finally have the correct firepower in case another incident like this happens again.

[RWC130 594]

ALL Police Officers should carry at a MINIMUM a 40 or 45 for a duty weapon.

I like the 9MM but with the "Ghetto Guns" just aint gonna cut it anymore.

ALL Police Vehicles should have:

A - Shotgun

B - AR-15

C - MP5

D - ALL of the above (OK Sorry )

LAPD Bank Robbery Shoot Out should have been a WAKE UP CALL

but I think the recent incident in Upstate NY really hit home. Very sad.

I fired the 45 Glock. It's got some KICK!

[gpdexplorer 46]

When I attended the 2005 National Law Enforcement Explorers Academy in Ft Leonard Wood, MO, we were given the oppurtunity to shoot a 9mm Sig Sauer, a 12 ga, and the H&K MP5. The MP5 had little kick and was pretty accurate (given I was probably only standing 30ft from the target). I was told, not at the academy, that MP5's were being phased out of military use because they dont have a lot of fire power, again, a 9mm round. Besides being able to shoot 30 rounds in no time, would PO's want to use a 9mm round instead of an AR15, the M16's cousin?

And I'm not saying that PO's wouldnt want to have an MP5, just that there are better options.

Edited November 16, 2006 by gpdexplorer

[ny10570 745]

Cops need more stopping power. He's one video I found. How mnay rounds do you think this guy took before he dropped. And when he dropped, he dropped because he was stone dead. Watch carefully too, there are rounds exchanged through out the entire video.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4...+shooting&hl=en

[helicopper 1,050]

Cops need more stopping power.  He's one video I found.  How mnay rounds do you think this guy took before he dropped.  And when he dropped, he dropped because he was stone dead.  Watch carefully too, there are rounds exchanged through out the entire video.

It isn't just the rounds being fired - it has a lot to do with where they impact the victim, the victims' physical and psychological condition, adrenaline or other recreational substances, etc. all play a role in whether the guy falls down or keeps fighting.

I've heard of suspects on PCP who will break both wrists trying to get out of handcuffs and don't even know they did it. They probably won't stop fighting from gun shot wounds if they're not dead either!