Indian Point Fire 4/6/07

[Guest]

Did anyone hear of an explosion at Indian Point this morning?

CBS 2 reported a minor explosion and Shut down of one Reactor.

Can any one confirm this?

Edited April 6, 2007 by RWC130

[Guest]

Got this from lohud.com

"ransformer yard fire prompts shutdown of Indian Point 3

By LIZ ANDERSON AND GREG CLARY

THE JOURNAL NEWS

(Original Publication: April 6, 2007)

BUCHANAN - A fire in the transformer yard at the Indian Point nuclear power complex has led to the shutdown of the Indian Point 3 reactor, according to Susan Tolchin, chief adviser to Westchester County Executive Andrew Spano.

"There was a fire in the transformer yard, exterior to the building," Tolchin told The Journal News at 11:30 a.m., 15 minutes after the fire. "The fire was put out by internal resources at the plant; no external fire departments were needed."

"Unit 3 is offline," she said.

Jim Steets, a spokesman for Entergy Nuclear Northeast, which owns and operates the plant, said the plant is stable and officials there don't believe there was any release of radioactive material.

The company's fire brigade is on the scene, he said.

The plant was coming up from a re-start after an unplanned shutdown earlier this week and was at about 90 percent capacity when the incident happened, Steets said.

Tolchin said county emergency services were in contact with the plant managers "and we also have our public safety department en route." She had no other immediate information.

The Buchanan fire department responded but was turned away at the gates, according to Journal News photographer Stuart Bayer, who serves on that force.

Indian Point 3 had returned to service Saturday, following a 24-day refueling outage when workers replaced 96 of the 193 fuel assemblies used during operation. Then, a steam generator problem at Indian Point 3 prompted workers to manually shut down the plant early Tuesday morning, but no release of radiation was reported and the plant was restarted less than 24 hours later.

Tuesday's stoppage had put Indian Point 3 near its limit for unplanned shutdowns per hours of operations. Another shutdown before June 30 would push Indian Point plant up to a white rating from green, the safest of four operational categories.

The plant had two unplanned shutdowns in 2006, according to Nuclear Regulatory Commission records.

On Monday, 123 of the 150 new emergency-warning sirens failed to successfully complete an operational test. The sirens are required to be ready to go by a week from Sunday. It was not known immediately if the existing siren system sounded today or if it was supposed to.

The plant went online 31 years ago this week.

Staff writer Nicole Neroulias contributed to this report.

Check back for updates at LoHud.com and read more about this story tomorrow in The Journal News."

[hudson144 150]

couldn't have been much,verplanck FD was turned around at the gate. Fire Brigade had it under control.

[Guest]

WHEW! Quite a commotion. I like the "don't believe" there was any release of radioactive material.

[x134 46]

WHEW! Quite a commotion. I like the "don't believe" there was any release of radioactive material.

←

Is that like " THE AIR QUALITY IS OK. " AFTER 911.

[wmurpht 1]

Is that like " THE AIR QUALITY IS OK. " AFTER 911.

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The transformers have nothing to do with the radiological areas of the plant.

[RWC130 594]

Couldn't have been much,Verplanck FD was turned around at the gate.

Fire Brigade had it under control.

That's not so comforting. If you have a Fire, any type of Fire for that matter

why would you turn away resources?

I am not knocking IP Fire Brigade but what is the Fire Brigade equipped to handle?

IP made it a point to say:

The fire was put out by internal resources at the plant; no external fire departments were needed

Was Verplanck FD really "NOT NEEDED" or just turned away because IP wants to

keep this Fire quiet and down play EVERYTHING as they do.

As of 1400 HRS Westchester County C & O Zone 4 was just called in to IP

and are now on scene. Hopefully they are not "turned away" at the gate.

[Stepjam 118]

.......If you have a Fire, any type of Fire for that matter why would you turn away resources? I am not knocking IP Fire Brigade but what is the Fire Brigade equipped to handle?

Was Verplanck FD really "NOT NEEDED" or just turned away because IP wants to

keep this Fire quiet and down play EVERYTHING as they do.

Hopefully they are not "turned away" at the gate.

←

Already, the BS is starting to fly. There WAS NOT any "release of radioactive material." Some people seem to be disappointed by that.

Please, skip the drama and skullduggery. We don't "downplay" anything. The local media tends to exaggerate and sensationalize. There wasn't any duplicity in this incident and the Brigade responded beautifully. VFD simply wasn't needed. It is still a secure facility, so if there isn't a good reason for you to be there, then you won't get in. If you aren't very careful, and aren't familiar with the specific hazards, there is a risk of injury. It was simply unnecessary to admit the VFD in this case.

The IPEC Fire Brigade is very well equipped to deal with a situation like this. It is a regular fire prevention and suppression organization, not unlike any in many small towns. We don't have any motorized apparatus, but the site is well hydranted, there are hose stations throughout, along with prestaged AFFF, tools, and extra lines, up to 4." All members turn out in class-A's and SCBA gear. IPEC's brigade receives annual NY State FF basics training; most are VFF's in their own communities. The Brigade drills often.

In addition to its own "Fire Department," The area where the incident took place is covered by an automated, wet-pipe deluge system. It effectively contained the fire until the Brigade responded with AFFF. There are a number of automated systems throughout the facility, ranging from sprinklers to automated deluge systems, several CO2 systems and a few areas that are covered by Halon. In addition to city water, there are two auxiliary fire pumps (very BIG pumps) and approximately 300,000 gallons of stored fire water.

Naturally, the emphasis is always on awareness and prevention, but transformer fires are not unknown at large power plants and substations.

Edited April 6, 2007 by Stepjam

[hudson144 150]

well put stepjam- from working there years ago the training that we recieved back then was very thourough as well as in depth. I know that if outside agencys were needed they would have been requested by the IC. The plant itself would be great to be used as a tool to show firefighters the many different types of fire protection systems that are available on the commercial level. Most of the systems present would not be seen by many out here in westchester unless you have a commercial structurfe that requires fire protection such as IP. The one point that stands out in stepjams post is the fact that security is vital there and to bring others in when not needed is only asking for a possible problem. Along with that point is that when you are on site many hazards are present and you don't need some curious person gawkin around where he/she shouldn't be. good job to those involved! In many situations there apparatus is not needed becaue of the fixed systems in place. If the fire was in one of the many other structures there such as warehouses,training buildings etc I am sure the outside agencys would be invited. Does the news and press blow this all out? I'll say this- if the fire was similiar to the one back during the blackout in 1977 where the incident took place across the street from the main complex and people were aware of what was going on there would not have been the panic that happened that night. The news flashes,interviews etc only make matters worse than what they are. Get the facts first before you cause PANIC!

Edited April 6, 2007 by hudson144

[x134 46]

The transformers have nothing to do with the radiological areas of the plant.

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Just stating we are not always told the truth. PCB OILS ?

Edited April 6, 2007 by drobison82

[Stepjam 118]

Just stating we are not always told the truth. PCB OILS ?

←

Of course. As I said, there is a HazMat concern. Dielectric cooling oils will always become laden with PCB's as they age. The yard area is well contained, the transformers sit on concrete pads in the middle of a concrete tub, which is backfilled with gravel. There will be some oil to clean up in that area, but most of it remains contained inside the unit. I can tell you that arrangements are being made with an outside specialist company to recover the oil.

Edited April 6, 2007 by Stepjam

[Remember585 815]

Hey Hudson, I hear a certain hot dog vendor was actually allowed in, something about two dogs with "nuclear" chili?!

A transformer fire in a plant like that can be significant, but the incident today was quickly and professionally mitigated by the on-site Brigade. Verplanck FD was there and probably willing to help if asked, and everyone should be glad that nobody else was needed, because everytime one of those departments up there was paged out an their house sirens went off, more people would start panicking. So many people and so many press sources have the public CONVINCED that Indian Point is a ticking time bomb. If that were the case I feel confident that the NRC and even Entergy themselves would pull the plug and close shop.

[Guest alsfirefighter]

Much of this is just typical chicken little syndrome played up by the press. IP has just had a serious of misfortunate events and this coming on the heels of a unplanned shutdown allows ignorant people to try to further their cause of a shutdown based on mis-information, half-truth's and other twisted talking to make their argument work.

I do have one question for knowledge purposes. Who exactly is the AHJ when there is a fire brigade involved and the facility is within a fire district? Are there special circumstances outline by federal law or standard being its a nuclear facility? Who has the ultimate responsibility as outlined by NYS law, if it is applicable?

[Stepjam 118]

ALS, that is a good question, and truthfully I don't know the answer since it's never come up until now. I know the rules have changed quite a bit, and HLS calls some of the shots now. I'm interested to know the answer too, let me find out.

Edited April 7, 2007 by Stepjam

[WAS967 97]

Who exactly is the AHJ when there is a fire brigade involved

For those who don't know, what is an AHJ?

[Guest alsfirefighter]

AHJ "Authority having Jurisdiction"

A wonderful phrase being NY is a home rule state. Which causes more problems in certain aspects then it helps.

[Guest]

I thought PCBs couldn't be used as dielectric cooling/insulating oil in the US anymore?

[Stepjam 118]

I thought PCBs couldn't be used as dielectric cooling/insulating oil in the US anymore?

←

They can't-in newly manufactured ones. The transformer in question is thirty years old, it's oil wasn't a problem as long as it stayed inside the unit. IP2 had two brand new Siemens transformers installed last year, which are state of the art.......and were imported from Brazil.

Edited April 9, 2007 by Stepjam

[Guest]

i see, so i assume these use silicone based oils or mineral oil? Also, why wouldn't these (the 30 year old transformers) have been replaced - is it a situation that "if its not broke don't fix it" would apply?

Edited April 9, 2007 by 66Alpha1

[Guest alsfirefighter]

Alpha,

We always teach and even hear from the utility companies that you always assume PCB's are present regardless. They even say that despite saying they have replaced all transformers etc. I know if I was running that business I wouldn't go out of my way to replace it until I'd have too.

[16fire5 693]

I'm glad posters like als called this for what it is, totally blown out of proportion by those with ulterior motives.

As for the PCB's that is a more complicated subject. I must compliment the member who brought it up because that is a size up factor that must be on the minds of members responding to incidents like this. The FDNY categorizes transformers in 3 ways; PCB, PCB contaminated, and non-PCB.

PCB 500 or more PPM PCB's

PCB contaminated any amount of PCB's between 1 and 499 PPM

Non PCB 0 PPM PCB's

It must be noted Con Ed uses a different scale

PCB 500 or more PPM PCB's

PCB contaminated any amount of PCB's between 50 and 499 PPM

Non PCB 0-49 PPM PCB's

Many PCB contaminated transformers still exist because the oil has been changed over in these transformers multiple times lowering the concentration each time.

I would also note that PCB transformers can be found in areas besides electric substations like old metro north M2 cars. The best way to be prepared for these responses is to have these facilities preplanned.

[Stepjam 118]

Who exactly is the AHJ when there is a fire brigade involved and the facility is within a fire district?  Are there special circumstances outline by federal law or standard being its a nuclear facility? Who has the ultimate responsibility as outlined by NYS law, if it is applicable?

←

Sorry for the late reply. The Fire Brigade Leader (usually an Operations Supervisor) has the final authority on dispatch and deployment. Nuclear Plants come under Federal Law, and it is the Federal Government that has ultimate jurisdiction.

[Guest alsfirefighter]

Stepjam:

Thanks for remembering to check and taking the time to update us. I really appreciate it bro and answered my questioned and gave me something I learned today. Stay safe!