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Billy

About the fatal Mamaroneck fire........

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I don't want to start a huge debate or fight but I was wondering if anyone from Mamaroneck or West Harrison had a comment regarding today's Journal News story about the fatal fire the other night. Is it accurate or fair?

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I just posted the same question in another post (Interagency Communications And Command) can anyone shed some light on this

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The Journal News article in question...

Family of man killed in Mamaroneck fire question response time

By LESLIE KORNGOLD

THE JOURNAL NEWS

(Original publication: April 18, 2007)

MAMARONECK - The family of a village man who died in a fire Monday, on what was his 78th birthday, wants to know why it took firefighters a half-hour to get to the scene, even though storm-flooded streets were originally cited as the delay.

West Harrison Fire Chief Pat Galluzzo, who led the first team to arrive at 243 Knollwood Ave. in Harbor Heights, on Monday referred to the fire as a 2 a.m. call, but the first 911 calls were placed more than a half-hour earlier.

Today Mamaroneck Deputy Fire Chief Kevin Delner said there were still "some things we are trying to look at and identify" regarding the dispatch and trip. He hoped to have a handle on the information later today.

The typical response time to the house is three to four minutes from Jefferson Avenue where the West Harrison team was stationed on mutual aid, Steve Surace, a West Harrison firefighter and Harrison fire marshal, said yesterday. However, because of flooding on Mamaroneck Avenue in Mamaroneck and south from White Plains through Harrison, Surace said, the firetruck had to go up Halstead Avenue to Playland Parkway, then come back down Interstate 95 to the Mamaroneck Avenue exit, 18A and B.

"We are dispatched through County Control (fire dispatch center) and we have to find the best way to get there," Surace said.

Village Mayor Philip Trifiletti, who lives three houses away from the deceased, said yesterday that it took him about 20 minutes to get home from the village's storm command center, covering the same route firefighters took. Trifiletti said he left for home at 1:25 a.m. and arrived about 1:45 a.m. He said he saw the firetrucks coming down the street about 10 minutes later.

Dan Kirsch said house alarms alerted his parents, Jeannine and Jacques Kirsch, to the fire at 1:21 a.m. His mother made her first of three 911 calls at 1:26 a.m., he said after confirming the call time on her cell phone. The house had no electricity or phone service due to the flooding, he said. The alarm company, ADT, responding to the 1:21 a.m. alarm signal, called a sister, Monique Kirsch Sloane, in New Rochelle. ADT said it would dispatch police and fire to the scene, she said yesterday.

Jeannine Kirsch, meanwhile, was struggling to get her husband - who was weakened from heart surgery in October, gout and arthritis - down the steps from the second floor, Dan Kirsch said. She was later treated for smoke inhalation, he said.

Another sister, New Rochelle resident Jacqueline Kirsch, called 911 from her home at 1:41 a.m., said Capt. Kevin Kealey of the New Rochelle police. On that 911 tape she was immediately transferred to County Fire Control in Valhalla, where a male dispatcher said personnel already knew about the fire and that firefighters and an ambulance were en route. On the tape she can be heard imploring for someone to help.

"He's up in the bedroom! He's going to die!" she said repeatedly.

Galluzzo, the West Harrison fire chief, said his truck was only a mile away.

Emergency 911 cell phone calls first go to the state police at Hawthorne and are forwarded to the local police or County Fire Control depending on agreements, said Sgt. David Shannon of the state police.

County Fire Control spokesman David Novich was researching the dispatch times yesterday.

The family is waiting for answers as they deal with the tragedy.

"I can't breathe. Why aren't the firemen getting here? What's taking them so long?" were the last words Jeannine Kirsch heard her husband say, Dan Kirsch said.

Reach Leslie Korngold at lkorngol@lohud.com or 914-694-3519.

Also from the Journal News...

Timeline of calls

- 1:21 a.m.: Alarm sounds in house. ADT, unable to reach residents, calls a daughter and tells her it will call police and firefighters.

- 1:25 a.m.: Village mayor heads for home on same route to be taken by emergency vehicles.

- 1:26 a.m.: Jeannine Kirsch makes the first of three 911 calls from her cell phone, followed by call to a second New Rochelle daughter.

- 1:41 a.m.: Second daughter calls 911, is transferred by New Rochelle to County Fire Control, which says it knows about the fire and has dispatched firefighters and an ambulance

- 1:45 a.m.: Mayor gets home three houses away from fire scene.

- 2 a.m.: Firetrucks arrive.

Edited by Chris192

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I'm from harrison and the paper left out the fact that we were even there and we were the third piece of apparatus on scene! so that should tell you something and the old saying goes don't believe everything that you read. Heres the harrison side. we were in quarters finally! enjoying a little break when we heard mamaroneck had a working fire and is requesting a engine from harrison to the scene. just as we were jumping into our engine the tones went off. I checked my ipage after getting home and we recieved the call at 01:36. just as we pulled out on to the apron mamaroneck E-42 and bedford hills T-57 were coming past our quarters and we followed, but there was some confusion as to which way to go E42 took I-95 and E-11 and T- 57 took local streets to mamaroneck ave. we had to go thru some deep water but we arrived about 5-6 minutes behind E-42 it was about 10-15 minutes total for all of us to reach the scene. Now during the response we heard the transmissions from west harrison R-35 saying they had heavy smoke and fire and 1 victim trapped upon arrival and were going to start a search. about 5 minutes later they report victim found and were in the process of removal and patient was braught out to awaiting ems and transported prior to our arrival. so I don't believe that it took 30 mitues for a piece of apparatus to show up. Now don't get me wrong we all know that 10-15 minute response time in not good at all but given the conditions( mamaroneck ave in the village was under 6 feet of water) there was no other way to get there any faster even calling mutual aid with us still would have take the same amount of time. the only thing that would have helped would be to stage apparatus in that area.(thats another discussion) This is my 2 cents that given time of night this fire had a very good head start prior to the wife discovering it there was still alot of fire showing when we pulled up and the conditions just worsened as we started to help with the attack we had three handlines in operation while the tower was setting up and after about 20 minutes the horns were sounding to get out because the fire was in the basement and it was burning the floors out.It was a ruff night for all. I will end with this everone did a damn good job given what we had to work with and west harrison made a damn fine grab even if it did'nt turn out the way we liked. so GOOD JOB GUYS!

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Hell of a job done by everyone that nigh, I think hrfd answered all your questions lets let this one go ok. To be discussing response times on a night like that when resources are streched to the max is crazy to do. espically if you where not there to exprience it. No one should have to defend there Deparment on this borad ever.

It was a tough night for everyone, my department was at that fire later on, and has nothing but praise for everyone that was there.

Edited by calhobs

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'nuff said. Agreed. You can't believe everything you read in the papers and I almost never do without a "grain of salt." Thats why I wanted to here another side of the story.

Hats off to all that were there that night.

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LEts not get defensive guys. Most of the people on this board understand the conditions and have your backs. I think the question is more about the accuracy of whats written in the paper. Sorry hfdr, but your dept wasn't left out because of an error, it was left out because it doesn't figure into the story. The story is about who was first on scene and how long did it take to get there. I'm sure there won't be any comments from anyone who is truely in the know because of the sensitive nature of the incident.

If the times given in the paper are accurate then the question is what took so long?

Maybe the crews took one route, but were forced to turn back and go another way due to changing road conditions. Was there central collection point for information reguarding impassible roads and alternate directions. Was this info available to these crews?

I have no doubt that the guys there did the best they could under impressive conditions, there are questions raised when a guy in his personal vehicle can beat the FD to the scene.

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I'm from harrison and the paper left out the fact that we were even there and we were the third piece of apparatus on scene! so that should tell you something and the old saying goes don't believe everything that you read. Heres the harrison side. we were in quarters finally! enjoying a little break when we heard mamaroneck had a working fire and is requesting a engine from harrison to the scene. just as we were jumping into our engine the tones went off. I checked my ipage after getting home and we recieved the call at 01:36. just as we pulled out on to the apron mamaroneck E-42 and bedford hills T-57 were coming past our quarters and we followed, but there was some confusion as to which way to go E42 took I-95 and E-11 and T- 57 took local streets to mamaroneck ave. we had to go thru some deep water but we arrived about 5-6 minutes behind E-42 it was about 10-15 minutes total for all of us to reach the scene. Now during the response we heard the transmissions from west harrison R-35 saying they had heavy smoke and fire and 1 victim trapped upon arrival and were going to start a search. about 5 minutes later they report victim found and were in the process of removal and patient was braught out to awaiting ems and transported prior to our arrival. so I don't believe that it took 30 mitues for a piece of apparatus to show up. Now don't get me wrong we all know that 10-15 minute response time in not good at all but given the conditions( mamaroneck ave in the village was under 6 feet of water) there was no other way to get there any faster even calling mutual aid with us still would have take the same amount of time. the only thing that would have helped would be to stage apparatus in that area.(thats another discussion) This is my 2 cents that given time of night this fire had a very good head start prior to the wife discovering it  there was still alot of fire showing when we pulled up and the conditions just worsened as we started to help with the attack we had three handlines in operation while the tower was setting up and after about 20 minutes the horns were sounding to get out because the fire was in the basement and it was burning the floors out.It was a ruff night for all. I will end with this everone did a damn good job given what we had to work with and west harrison made a damn fine grab even if it did'nt turn out the way we liked. so GOOD JOB GUYS!

I agree with what hfdr19 says. Unfortunately what we read does dont say the whole story. Being on Rescue 35 that night i know our response was the quickest we could make it under the circumstances. As for when it came to finding the victim, I know that it was very quick and under terrible conditions. I wasn't on the grab of the victim, but i was one of the ones who grabbed him at the front door and helped placed him down so that EMS (Who gave an awesome effort) could work on him. Everyone there worked extremely hard and I was glad to have worked with all of you.

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Dan Kirsch said house alarms alerted his parents, Jeannine and Jacques Kirsch, to the fire at 1:21 a.m. His mother made her first of three 911 calls at 1:26 a.m., he said after confirming the call time on her cell phone. The house had no electricity or phone service due to the flooding, he said. The alarm company, ADT, responding to the 1:21 a.m. alarm signal, called a sister, Monique Kirsch Sloane, in New Rochelle. ADT said it would dispatch police and fire to the scene, she said yesterday.

Hmm...thought that the law in NY, in regards to alarm companies, is call the FD or PD first, then call the resident.

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some alarm companies call the residence first.

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Follow up article

Mamaroneck to review response to deadly fire

By REKA BALA

THE JOURNAL NEWS

(Original Publication: April 19, 2007)

MAMARONECK - Village officials expressed their condolences yesterday to the family of 78-year-old resident Jacques Kirsch, who died in a fire earlier this week, and announced they were planning to conduct a review of the incident and how it was handled.

Village Fire Chief Barry J. Casterella said the review of the early Monday morning fire would begin immediately but could not specify how long it would take until a conclusion was reached.

"It is premature to draw any conclusions or give any opinions regarding this incident until a complete review of the facts regarding this incident has been completed," Casterella said in a statement.

William Ciraco of the Mamaroneck Village Manager's Office, who has been assigned the task of reviewing the incident, said the review could take days to complete.

Around 2 a.m. Sunday, firefighters responded to 243 Knollwood Ave., where Kirsch was reportedly stranded on the home's second floor. Although 911 calls showed the fire was called in much closer to 1:30 a.m., officials said excessive flooding from the weekend's storm prevented crews from using their usual routes to get to that neighborhood and instead had to get there by taking a much longer route.

The typical response time to the house is three to four minutes from Jefferson Avenue, where the West Harrison team was stationed on mutual aid, said Steve Surace, a West Harrison firefighter and Harrison fire marshal. However, because of flooding on Mamaroneck Avenue in Mamaroneck and south from White Plains through Harrison, Surace said, the firetruck had to go up Halstead Avenue to Playland Parkway, then come back down Interstate 95 to the Mamaroneck Avenue exit, 18A and B.

Dan Kirsch said house alarms alerted his parents, Jeannine and Jacques Kirsch, to the fire at 1:21 a.m. His mother made her first of three 911 calls at 1:26 a.m., he said after confirming the call time on her cell phone. The house had no electricity or phone service because of the flooding, he said. The alarm company, ADT, responding to the 1:21 a.m. alarm signal, called a sister, Monique Kirsch Sloane, in New Rochelle

I’m not knocking anybody because I feel that everybody did the best job possible with the resources available. And I feel for the family, but just a question why would an elderly couple stay in the house with flood waters that high, there were shelters around why couldn’t they just call to be transported to a shelter just in case there was an emergency and needed help quickly! I just don’t understand why you would stay in a house where you had no phone or electricity DURING A FLOOD. I just don’t get it. Buildings and belongings can be replacing and rebuilt but lives cannot. Let it go… it’s only a house you still have the memories.

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If anyone on this BB responded to this fire, I would be very careful to what you say on this board or anywhere else. I am "almost" positive, there will be a lawsuit.

I smell subpoena. Shut up.

Seth, take charge.

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Follow up article

I’m not knocking anybody because I feel that everybody did the best job possible with the resources available. And I feel for the family, but just a question why would an elderly couple stay in the house with flood waters that high, there were shelters around why couldn’t they just call to be transported to a shelter just in case there was an emergency and needed help quickly! I just don’t understand why you would stay in a house where you had no phone or electricity DURING A FLOOD. I just don’t get it. Buildings and belongings can be replacing and rebuilt but lives cannot. Let it go… it’s only a house you still have the memories.

From my understanding the husband - who died in the fire - was a heart patient recovering from some form of major heart surgery. Compile that with the fact that your already a senior citizens and your talking massive recovery time. For people in that state, it can be an ordeal to complete basic daily human tasks that you and i take for granted. This is simply not a cut a dry situation like your making it out to be. My parents, who live in Port Chester didn't leave their house after they suffered sever flooding and temporary loss of electricity. Are they moronic for doing so? No. Your talking about someones livelihood, its far easier to say "all you gotta do is pick up the pieces and rebuild man!" Maybe they couldn't rebuild. What if they were on a fixed government income? Do you know how expensive it is to build in that area? I mean, your almost blaming this guy for his own death which is outrageous! I think you need to wake up, smell the coffee and readjust your perspectives man.

Edited by 66Alpha1

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If anyone on this BB responded to this fire, I would be very careful to what you say on this board or anywhere else. I am "almost" positive, there will be a lawsuit.

I smell subpoena. Shut up.

Seth, take charge.

I agree with Get the roof - we might not want to get into this one on such a public forum.

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From my understanding the husband - who died in the fire - was a heart patient recovering from some form of major heart surgery. Compile that with the fact that your already a senior citizens and your talking massive recovery time. For people in that state, it can be an ordeal to complete basic daily human tasks that you and i take for granted. This is simply not a cut a dry situation like your making it out to be. My parents, who live in Port Chester didn't leave their house after they suffered sever flooding and temporary loss of electricity. Are they moronic for doing so? No. Your talking about someones livelihood, its far easier to say "all you gotta do is pick up the pieces and rebuild man!" Currently helping my father going through the ordeal of getting insurance reps out here, having the adjuster come, making sure everything is documented, disinfecting, sorting through everything we lost and trying to put a dollar value to everything we lost is no easy task. I think you need to readjust your perspective.

Alpha, I gotta disagree with you this time. If this guy was recovering from surgery or anything else he should have been evacuated long before the fire. If you lose utility service and your house becomes an island it is time to leave!!! You come back to try to recover and rebuild once it is safe to do so.

Look at all the people in New Orleans that had to cut through the roof of their home to escape the attic after house became completely flooded. That should never have happened. Others were found dead in their homes because they couldn't escape the water. That's tragic and didn't need to happen.

Thankfully, this storm was no Katrina and most people did heed evacuation recommendations or orders.

This is a tragic situation and my heart goes out to the family and to the rescuers who tried to save him and his home. I just wish we didn't have to be having this conversation.

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I don't disagree with you Chris, but i think it was far easier said than done with a slew of unique factors at play - thats the point i was trying to get at.

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