Transporting TO the hospital

[helicopper 1,050]

OK, let's see if any of you share this particular pet peeve.

This afternoon on my way to work I stop at a green light to yield to an ambulance coming from the side with lights on (but no siren but that's another issue) on the wrong side of the double yellow lines on its way to the Medical Center.

Alright, I can live with that even though 90% of transports to the hospital don't need lights and siren. They should have used their warning devices more effectively but that's not my issue here.

Following the ambulance (about 30 seconds behind it) is the ALS fly-car, also on the wrong side of the road, with lights flashing and siren yelping! The fly-car also caused traffic to come to a grinding halt in order to follow the ambulance onto the Grasslands Reservation.

Why on earth does the volly driving the fly-car need to use red lights and siren to meet the ambulance at the hospital? It is completely unneccesary and in all likelihood illegal as well. Don't tell me its to reunite the medic and fly-car faster in case there is another call because the medic has to do paperwork and restock before going back in service and if there's another call he/she could always go with the ambulance.

Where are the EMS supervisors/managers/line officers or whomever that allow this nonsense to go on?

Rant concluded (for now!).

[paratrooper75 41]

I share that as well. I'm not picking on volunteers but a lot of times lights are used when they shouldn't. The best is when they leave the lights on while they are transporting non-emergency to the hospital obeying all traffic rules. Like you said there is only a small percentage of jobs that require lights to the hospital. As far as the flycar with its lights on that is total BS.

[Guest]

I agree 100%. In my service if the volly takes the fly car they will drive to the hospital with the normal flow of traffic, no lights, no sirens...because they aren't in emergency mode. They'll meet the bus at the hospital and usually by the time they arrive it is just about time to begin writing the report. I'm pretty sure it breaks some rules as well, because they aren't responding to a call. It is dangerous and should not be allowed. Cutting 30 seconds of of the trip and endangering lives is not worth it.

[Guest partyrock]

It happens all the time in NYC when ALS transports and BLS drives the buses. There are so many risks with convoying that it really should be avoided as much as possible.

[Guest ab2se]

In our system we meet with an ALS ambulance and the medic will get on board our rig and their EMT will follow with their rig. The problem we have had is the paid EMT, and I'm not picking on paid staff, will try to follow us with lights and siren. We have pretty much stopped it but every so often it happens. The excuses we get for doing it are: Suppose you run out of oxygen? or What if the medic needs X equipment and didn't bring it? I have yet to run out of oxygen or have the medic forget something. By the way we almost never transport using lights and siren.

[mfc2257 464]

Oh it drives me crazy.... He're one worse than that....

In 1997 or so Medic 28 (Gettysburg Hospital) and Ambulance 1A1 (Gettysburg FD) dispatched to an old folks home for a Syncopal Episode.

We had to transport but the pt was CAO and stable at the time. His status was what we referred to as class 2 which meant he needed medical attention but was stable. Unfortunatly Gettysburg Hospital and the two next closest (Hanover and York) were on divert for class 2 pt's for a lack of beds (only Class 1's that would be stabilized and transferred OR class 3's that would be treated and released were going there) so we had to go to Chambersburg over 40 miles away.

The other medic followed us the whole way while her partner rode with us instead of returning to Gettysburg Hospital to await another call.... WHICH came about 15 mintues after we departed.... Another medic (46) had to come all the way from Hanover hospital into Adams county to cover a serious pin job.

Just a terrible waste of resources.... I can think of others on the fire side recently in Westchester to rant about but I'll save it for another time.

[MICP2823 0]

The use, more like the Abuse, of lights and sirens makes me ill and fearful. Cross the border into NJ. Almost Every Single patient goes to the hospital Lights and Sirens. Almost every agency has their own set of rules to transport. 99% will ignore the Medics request and Order to go without lights and sirens. We all know 99.9999% do not require lights or sirens. Most of the time not even an ambulance. Going lights and sirens is not only dangerous, but also helps instill in peoples heads, I will get there faster if I call 911 for this ingrown toe nail.

As far as the Following of the ambulance Lights and Sirens that is just unneeded and once again an undo risk to everyone involved. I just love seeing an ambulance pull up with all their warning devices going, and then open the side door and have the patient walk out into the waiting room.

Am I missing something here? I am under the mind set of Me, My Partner and then everyone else. Why kill yourself getting to a call or to the hospital when the medical condition doesn't warrant it. I wish I could hand someone a bus token and say "You do not need an ambulance today, here is a ride to the hospital."

[wcr20 17]

About the only thing I can think of that MIGHT justify the L&S follow in is if there was a call holding that required the medic to immediately get back in the truck and go - with no other available coverage.

I spent many years in a system where I would often do the follow in drive, and dont think I ever had to do it L&S.

[Guest alsfirefighter]

First...one call at a time. If the call is that emergent and its a flycar system...BLS needs to load and go and attempt an intercept. If not...nothing beats good BLS care enroute to the hospital. There is no reason and this could also be interpreted as a violation of NYS V & T Law Section 1104 for a flycar to be following an ambulance with its lights or anything else on. Pending job or no pending job. If the job you were on was that hot to begin with...you more then likely are going to have to take some time to put your bag(s) back together as it is.

As far as what Chris mentioned...this is a huge pet peave of mine, not just going to the hospital but also on the response end. We still use L & S for entirely too many non-emergent jobs. We can triage at an MCI and pick who waits a little longer...but we use L & S for ankle injuries...finger injuries...person feeling ill, the list can go on and on. What I also love is when I BLS a job and the ambulance then goes whizzing by me lights and sirens going. But then the same crew will complain that no one pays attention or yields when approaching. I wonder why when you desensitize them to the sirens for all the BS runs.

Most of those whom are with the transport agencies I deal with know me well enough they do not ask. If I want lights and sirens I will ask for it. The problem is there are still ALS providers whom use them when not needed. And for me traffic is not take part in a "true emergency" of when they are suppose to be used. I don't even have my transporting agencies use them for cardiac arrests.

[mikeinet 37]

see... this is an issue with the lower NY area. If you look at Onondaga County... they've very well adapted to the priority system. All VACs as well as paid agencies (Rural/Metro) use the priority system... Pri 1 is ALS Life Threatning - Pri 2 is life threatning - Pri 3 - non-emergency response - Pri 4 - Hospital Tx.

EnRoute to hospitals... unless you have a critical pt you're going in a non-emergency P3... If you want to respond to the hospital with a life-critical pt (full arrest... stroke... etc.) you need to clear it w/ resource while enroute to the hospital (via med chans or landline)

I personally think its more of a training issue and if the county issued standards as to how to respond/when/how and set up a training program... within 2 years things would be a lot smoother. There'd be quite a buck to the system "we've done this for years without problems" - but as said in the inital post... look how much hazard / problem is caused (tying up major intersections... creating potential for major hazard...)

I forget which class I heard it in, but I believe responding lights & sirens on the national average only saves you 30 seconds (something like that)

It's putting you and your crew (and pt) at risk responding when you dont need to! After all... who's the most important person on an ambulance call? YOU!

(with this being said... Syr Fire Dept responds to EVERYTHING... besides requests from fire control not to - generally only lockouts to what i've seen)