Mutual Aid Corps

[CG206 29]

How well does your Ambulance Corps operate with the neighboring EMS agencies?

[Guest EMSwhitecloud]

Well, last time I checked we covered about 18% of their calls :wink: ....we don't mind though, thats what we're here for. And yes I know you also cover some of ours, thats the way this system works.

[CG206 29]

Absolutely...its a 2 way street and we always work together no matter what the circumstances. Thats the purpose of the mutual aid system.

[Oswegowind 17]

Uh, we work well with some of the places we go mutual aid to, others we just fight with.

[SHAC7301 0]

We should all be down to earth enough to realize that mutual aid is not a sign of failure, but rather a sign of the times for the volunteer services. As long as it is not abused, it is a good thing. Too many agencies delay the call for aid while trying to field a crew or free-up a rig. We should view the waiting patient as a family member when determining what is a "reasonable" wait.

[x635 4,066]

I agree with SHAC7301 for the most part.

Mutual aid is a vital part (Unfortunetly) of EMS in Westchester.

However, response times are the main issue. Communities should be able to provide at least 1 fully staffed ambulance (depending on their district size and volume, maybe more) 24/7 without having to rely on MA. I also strongly beleive in a "3 minute rule", If you dont have anybody responding within three minutes, go to the next line ambulance. People in WC pay enough in taxes, they should have the right to have the ambulance and services from their community first due asap when possible. After all, when they call the town garbage truck, fire truck, snowplow, police car, school bus,water dept truck, etc, they get them.......why aren't they getting THEIR ambulance?

As I've said before, egos need to be put aside and people need to know when to ask for help. If corps are having trouble surviving with staffing, maybe they should consolidate with other corps and/ or hire a paid staff for those hours they cannot cover . Or try innovative kinds of things, like training local FD members to drive the ambulance, or as riding EMT's.

It's a conterversial issue bringing paid staff into a volunteer agency, but peoples lives are on the line, and thats what is often forgotten and placed on the back burner secondary to political issues and egos. This goes for ALS agencies too. Communities need to fund so there is enough money for proper ALS coverage 24/7.

As SHAC said, how would we feel waiting for an ambulance? View that side of the issue.

[Guest alsfirefighter]

I'm gonna have to play devils advocate on this one..no shock there huh x635?lol.

The truest sense of mutual aid isn't a sign of failure. Chronic mutual aid is! If a high mutual rate signifies the problem with volunteer recruitment/retention then mutual aid isn't the answer to that problem. Mutual aid resources can become a disease growing upon a EMS agency. Why should we answer that call, why should I get up to answer that call...ahhhh xyzVAC will pick it up.

Do we place nice, I really don't have to worry about it much other then one of my side jobs. However most of the time yes, with the exception of a few instances. I'm gonna spill one here because it aggravates me more then any other instance.

You have a call audit at your local hospital. Several members of this VAC are attending, and the hospital is in their fire (ems) district. Pagers go off for call, everyone hits reset. Pagers go off again...RESET....GET THE PICTURE. ALSfirefighter blurts out, if your not gonna answer shut them off. Neighboring VAC picks up call while nearly 10 members of primary agency sit in call audit....IS THAT A PROBLEM? Why not bring an ambulance with you? Or if I was the Captain and I was sitting there, mutual aid would have been denied.....and yes you can deny mutual aid.

[SHAC7301 0]

I agree with the last two replies. Response times need to be reasonable. Any captain/lieutenant should have a vague idea as to where the "holes" are in the schedule. If the members don't radio and/or call-in within the first three minutes, as previously mentioned, then mutual aid should be called.

I also would find fault with the members who "sat" through a call audit while their VAC called mutual aid to cover a call. We have a duty, an obligation, when we are "free" to respond to a call. Family and work comes first (for most of us), but to sit through a series of tones while attending EMS training........it boggles the mind!!!

[N1Medic 69]

Just a few comments here about some issues on this topic.

As ALSFirefighter says, Mutual aid can destroy the giving agency. If I volunteered, I would have signed up to serve the community, not spend 75% of my time covering the requesters deficiencies. And chances are, its not a "good" call either. It burns people out and its not fair. Mutual aid is for helping when your normal volume is exceeded, during MCI's, etc....not to be used on a routine basis.

Thats another pet peeve of mine, people who pick and choose calls they want to go on, but thats digressing from this subject.

As for ignoring your patients and your district during a call audit. Technically, a volunteer is never off duty. However, if there is training, the bus(es) should be staffed regardless of who's in training. The training should be given and organized around this concept. I find it also disruptive when I am trying to listen to a person or concetrating and the minitors (and cell phones) are going off. I find it extremly annoying and disrespectful to the person who is talking. Make arrangement for your agency to be staffed or covered, shut off your pagers, and go into class.

A solution could be, if Medic's could run double medic ambulances instead of flycars:

(This is based on the concept that is now, ALS goes to everything)

Medic's pull up on scene. If call is ALS, the Medic bus could take the patient, freeing up the BLS bus. Vice-versa if it is a BLS patient.

BLS could assist ALS during the extra hands calls.

If the BLS bus fails to show, then the ALS bus could transport.

Some people say that take's up the medics time, but time is also wasted on scene waiting for your bus to show. It cuts down on turnaround times.